Molded and Filled Chocolates: Troubleshooting and Techniques

[Jim D.]

I was just going to ask how you clean your molds.  I do it more or less the way you do.  There are as many opinions on how to clean molds (or even whether to clean them) as there are people making chocolates.  Do you do any polishing?  Before use I take a soft cloth or a very soft paper towel and polish the cavities.  Inevitably, in spite of my best efforts, I come up with some leftover chocolate (or colored cocoa butter) that theoretically can interfere with the finished product.  I say "theoretically" because no one knows for sure what causes chocolate to stick--there can only be educated guesses or assumptions.  Since you are not using colored cocoa butter in the pieces in your images, that eliminates one possible factor in the sticking.

 

Another possibility:  After filling and then emptying the cavities, do you put the molds in the refrigerator once the chocolate has begun to set?  This is meant to release the "latent heat of crystallization," and it made a big difference after I started doing it.  Many times (though not always) you can try removing some of the shells from the mold and determine whether they are going to release later after they have been filled.

 

Another possibility:  Have you checked the temperatures of the chocolate at various stages in the Rev2 to make sure they are accurate?  Do you always test the temper before you start using the chocolate?

 

Another question:  Have you had any chocolates turn out OK?  If so, do you have any idea what you did differently?

 

I question whether the issue is the complexity of the mold design.  I have a pyramid with all sorts of decorations and it looks as if a chocolate would never come out of it, but in many uses I have never had it fail.  I also have a fluted oval similar to yours, and I don't think that it has ever failed to release.  But I have had my share of colossal failures.  I sometimes use Chocovision temperers.  Once, when the chocolate was thickening up and a shot of heat didn't fix the problem, I added melted, untempered chocolate to the machine.  It must have been warmer than my thermometer indicated and so heated the batch too much or I added more than the amount recommended and so overwhelmed the tempered chocolate.  In any event I neglected to recheck the temper and blithely went on my way filling molds.  Let me just say that no amount of time in the freezer or banging on the counter allowed one single chocolate to come out of that mold.

 

There are past threads on this forum with discussions of this issue with lots of suggestions, though not, of course, definitive answers.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Jim D. (log)

[chocofoodie]

That's exactly what I see when my chocolate is off temper.  There's much debate among us eGers about mold cleaning. I don't clean mine til I can't take it anymore, then, like yesterday, I put them all in my commercial washer and wash the hell out of them. Mine is a low temp washer. I've been doing that for a couple of years with no ill effects.  I take them out and air dry them for an hour then towel dry them, which is also a pre-polish on the cavities. Then I buff with melted cocoa butter using a cosmetic pad/round.

 

Since the last eG Choco and Confection workshop I am much more in tune with my room and mold temps. I make sure the room and molds are at 20ºC. I spray mine, and because Ruth always gets on my case, I don't give a crap about cocoa butter temps...but its around 95 or 100ºF (sorry for the C to F change but its how my mind works based on my equipment).

 

What you're doing is fine...you don't need the soap, but I use it too.  Just dry and buff. But that stick that you showed in the 2nd picture is your chocolate not being in perfect temper - I have no doubt about that. Is it possible that you're filling your ganache when its still warm?

 

I bought cocoa butter pellets but never used it. I wash it after each use and I've never buffed my molds. So that's definitely something I need to change. Your last question I think is right on the money. The recipe I used for this ganache had you heat the chocolate and the cream up to 112 F before combining. I then piped that into my molds, still warm. 

[gfron1]

I don't measure my temp of the ganache. I think of it more like testing a baby's formula. If I can feel it through the pastry bag, then its too warm. I like to pipe very loose so I don't let it cool off to the point that it thickens. And over the years I've learned which of my recipes can go straight from food processor to mold without waiting, but every now and then I throw the pastry bag on the marble to cool it down.

[chocofoodie]

I was just going to ask how you clean your molds.  I do it more or less the way you do.  There are as many opinions on how to clean molds (or even whether to clean them) as there are people making chocolates.  Do you do any polishing?  Before use I take a soft cloth or a very soft paper towel and polish the cavities.  Inevitably, in spite of my best efforts, I come up with some leftover chocolate (or colored cocoa butter) that theoretically can interfere with the finished product.  I say "theoretically" because no one knows for sure what causes chocolate to stick--there can only be educated guesses or assumptions.  Since you are not using colored cocoa butter in the pieces in your images, that eliminates one possible factor in the sticking.

 

Another possibility:  After filling and then emptying the cavities, do you put the molds in the refrigerator once the chocolate has begun to set?  This is meant to release the "latent heat of crystallization," and it made a big difference after I started doing it.  Many times (though not always) you can try removing some of the shells from the mold and determine whether they are going to release later after they have been filled.

 

Another possibility:  Have you checked the temperatures of the chocolate at various stages in the Rev2 to make sure they are accurate?  Do you always test the temper before you start using the chocolate?

 

Another question:  Have you had any chocolates turn out OK?  If so, do you have any idea what you did differently?

 

I question whether the issue is the complexity of the mold design.  I have a pyramid with all sorts of decorations and it looks as if a chocolate would never come out of it, but in many uses I have never had it fail.  I also have a fluted oval similar to yours, and I don't think that it has ever failed to release.  But I have had my share of colossal failures.  I sometimes use Chocovision temperers.  Once, when the chocolate was thickening up and a shot of heat didn't fix the problem, I added melted, untempered chocolate to the machine.  It must have been warmer than my thermometer indicated and so heated the batch too much or I added more than the amount recommended and so overwhelmed the tempered chocolate.  In any event I neglected to recheck the temper and blithely went on my way filling molds.  Let me just say that no amount of time in the freezer or banging on the counter allowed one single chocolate to come out of that mold.

 

There are past threads on this forum with discussions of this issue with lots of suggestions, though not, of course, definitive answers.

Question 1: No I don't polish

Question 2: I'm going to try this putting in the fridge thing after filling. I've never done that. I always try to avoid sticking the molds in the fridge as much as possible from fear of condensation

Question 3: I was actually thinking today that I should do this. I've always blindly trusted the Rev2. I've never tested the temper or checked the temperatures. Next time I'm going to check the temp at each stage. 

Question 4: I've never had chocolate pop out of the molds easily. They don't usually break like these, but they never come out without freezing and banging repeatedly. 

 

 

I heard you could add melted cocoa butter when the chocolate thickens, is that true? Would that help?

[chocofoodie]

I don't measure my temp of the ganache. I think of it more like testing a baby's formula. If I can feel it through the pastry bag, then its too warm. I like to pipe very loose so I don't let it cool off to the point that it thickens. And over the years I've learned which of my recipes can go straight from food processor to mold without waiting, but every now and then I throw the pastry bag on the marble to cool it down.

 

 

I could feel the warmth through the pastry bag!! You live and learn. I was worried it was to warm but my desire to pipe loose outweighed my warning lights that I should let it cool off a bit. 

[chocofoodie]

Ok so I have another concern. I filled three molds this time. I was a little doubtful about how to do this properly without losing temper. I would pour from the temperer into the mold and then empty it out back into the temperer. But I also scraped up the excess and added it back in too. I was worried that scraped up chocolate may have thrown it out of temper. Maybe I should have warmed it up first? What temp should I have warmed it up to so that I can maintain temper? 

[Jim D.]

I hadn't considered an overly warm ganache in my questions.  Most recipes I have seen tell you to cool it down.  For dark chocolate shells, Ewald Notter says 88F. , Peter Greweling gives 77F.  So you probably just melted the shell.

 

And I would recommend always testing the temper.  It's a nuisance, but it's a fairly certain guide (assuming all else is well, such as the room temp--as gfron1 said).

[Chocolot]

Just some first thoughts: Shell looks very thin. Might not have enough contraction. Did you wait for filling to firm (like overnight) before trying to remove? I wait until filling is at least 90F before piping. Usually don't have a problem. As you dump the first shells excess, it might be getting over crystallized and affecting the next tray. 

[ChocoMom]

For what its worth, I'll just share my experience and you can do with it what you like.  (I'm self-taught, so my methods and ideas might not be completely in line with textbook standards.  )  

    I had those issues before, and discovered two things. In one case, the ganache was too warm, and caused each piece to get stuck to the mold.   In the other case, the shell was too thin. And, its not every shell this happens to. It seemed like the ones with the most intricate edges- like the sea shell designs with all the little ripples- and the very deep cavities-  suffered the most from it.  The edges were always messy. I ascertained that because those edges were too thin, the ganache was pushing its way right through the thin areas, and sticking to the mold. Hence the residue from the ganache being stuck to the edges.

     So, after tinkering around, I cast the mold, poured out most of the excess, scraped the top surface, and turned the mold upsidedown on the parchment paper. I let it cool like that for quite some time, then scraped off what little excess there was and let it complete the drying process. Then it was ready to be filled.  The formerly thin areas were no longer see-through, and all went perfectly well. As long as I do that, everything works fine now.

 

As for cleaning the molds, I am a hairdryer- cotton pad fanatic.  I rarely wash the molds using soap due to concerns over residue and drying the mold out.  So, after each use, the molds are blown with the dryer, and polished 3x, and returned to the shelf for use again.  I discovered that this is a great job for my teenagers. It's tedious and boring, so for $8/hour,  they just pop the ole ear buds in, and sing, blow dry, then polish away.  Works like a charm.

 

HTH

Andrea

[Kerry Beal]

Chocolate on first glance appears to be in temper, but agreeing with those above who suggest too thin and ganache too warm.

 

I make my shells, put them in the fridge for 10 to 15 minutes - I can usually see that they are starting to separate from the molds. Then pipe in the ganache when it gets below about 28 C.  After I back off - back into the fridge for another 10 to 15 minutes - before I turn them out I check to see if they have separated from the mold.  Stubborn ones get 3 minutes in the freezer.  

 

Your question about adding back chocolate to the Rev - I'd heat it up a bit if necessary - just make sure that the chocolate in the Rev doesn't get above the max working temperature when you add the warmer chocolate.  After it has been in temper for a while your max temperatures are going to be 32.5 for milk and 34.5 for dark.  

[Jim D.]

Ok so I have another concern. I filled three molds this time. I was a little doubtful about how to do this properly without losing temper. I would pour from the temperer into the mold and then empty it out back into the temperer. But I also scraped up the excess and added it back in too. I was worried that scraped up chocolate may have thrown it out of temper. Maybe I should have warmed it up first? What temp should I have warmed it up to so that I can maintain temper? 

I have had the same experience with the Rev2--namely, having to add chocolate to have enough for multiple molds (it's why I gave in and bought the larger Rev Delta).  I think (I'm not an expert in the finer points of crystallization of chocolate) that if you empty the molds back into the machine (given the small size of the Rev2 bowl, how do you do that without making a total mess?), you are probably OK with temper.  But if, for example, you empty the molds onto parchment, by the time you get the dumped chocolate back into the machine, it may well be out of temper (it has been cooling as a fairly deep pool of chocolate, not an ideal situation).  Often you can see this: if you let a large pool of chocolate cool on parchment, it will set with lots of swirls and off-colors, a sure sign that it is not in temper.  What I did when I used the Rev2 for multiple molds was--after the machine has been emptied for the first batch--to reset the machine and start the tempering process from scratch.  If you scoop the old chocolate into the machine before it has set, the still-warm chocolate will cause the Rev2 to cycle through the tempering more quickly, so it's not as bad as it sounds.  You could also use the system of melting extra chocolate in the microwave or over water and get it to whatever melting point you want (up to around 120F max).  Reset the Rev2 and pour this new chocolate into the bowl, and because it is so warm, the tempering process will proceed rather quickly.

[chocofoodie]

Just some first thoughts: Shell looks very thin. Might not have enough contraction. Did you wait for filling to firm (like overnight) before trying to remove? I wait until filling is at least 90F before piping. Usually don't have a problem. As you dump the first shells excess, it might be getting over crystallized and affecting the next tray.

[chocofoodie]

For what its worth......

     So, after tinkering around, I cast the mold, poured out most of the excess, scraped the top surface, and turned the mold upsidedown on the parchment paper. I let it cool like that for quite some time, then scraped off what little excess there was and let it complete the drying process. Then it was ready to be filled.  The formerly thin areas were no longer see-through, and all went perfectly well. As long as I do that, everything works fine now.

 

As for cleaning the molds, I am a hairdryer- cotton pad fanatic.  I rarely wash the molds using soap due to concerns over residue and drying the mold out.  So, after each use, the molds are blown with the dryer, and polished 3x, and returned to the shelf for use again.  I discovered that this is a great job for my teenagers. It's tedious and boring, so for $8/hour,  they just pop the ole ear buds in, and sing, blow dry, then polish away.  Works like a charm.

 

HTH

Andrea

[chocofoodie]

Chocolate on first glance appears to be in temper, but agreeing with those above who suggest too thin and ganache too warm.

 

I make my shells, put them in the fridge for 10 to 15 minutes - I can usually see that they are starting to separate from the molds. Then pipe in the ganache when it gets below about 28 C.  After I back off - back into the fridge for another 10 to 15 minutes - before I turn them out I check to see if they have separated from the mold.  Stubborn ones get 3 minutes in the freezer.  

 

Your question about adding back chocolate to the Rev - I'd heat it up a bit if necessary - just make sure that the chocolate in the Rev doesn't get above the max working temperature when you add the warmer chocolate.  After it has been in temper for a while your max temperatures are going to be 32.5 for milk and 34.5 for dark.

[chocofoodie]

Jim, I am so frustrated by the tiny bowl!! I do manage to angle my mold and empty it directly back into the machine with only minimal mess but the almost vertical angle means I don't get as much out until I flip it and tap out onto my marble slab. I think I mess the whole thing up when I scrape up that excess and stick it back in the machine. That excess has usually already cooled a bit and is starting to set. Next time I'll use your tips. I filled three molds this time and before I filled the last one I reset the machine but that was because I felt I needed more chocolate so I was adding more pellets.

[Jim D.]

I strongly suggest using the technique of melting more chocolate and having it ready.  There are two methods:  (1) Restarting the tempering process from the beginning but using already heated chocolate.  As long as you don't burn it, you don't have to worry about its temp.  (2) The other method for "stretching" the filling of molds in a batch tempering machine is to melt chocolate separately and then bring it down to roughly the temp of the chocolate in the machine (90F for dark, for instance).  Then you can add a small amount of this supplemental chocolate at a time (I think Chocovision suggests 1/3 of what is in the bowl so as not to throw the chocolate out of temper).  Actually Chocovision recommends this method for its smaller machines.  My experience suggests always testing the temper after you have gone through one of these procedures.  And if you can afford the Delta machine, I recommend it as it removes all these issues.

 

Another bit of your procedure caught my eye:  you empty the molds (partially at least) onto marble.  That will really cool down the chocolate.

[Kerry Beal]

Interesting technique Kerry. Does that mean you get to sort of fast forward all the steps and finish a batch of chocolate in one day? I've never tried putting the molds in the fridge at any stage other than when they are fully done and capped. What kind of thermometer do you use?

You guys have given me so many great tips I can't wait to try. I didn't know I can take the temperatures up that high, I've always been so worried about losing temper. But this would really help to keep the chocolate flowing because it ends up getting thick when left at the same temperature.

I do generally finish things in one day.  

 

I use an infrared thermometer - I have quite a few of them.  My least expensive ones I've picked up from Canadian Tire - they seem pretty reliable most of the time.  

 

I used to have a Sinsation - which was the same as the little Rev - it limited me so much with it's small capacity that I started tempering by hand in a bowl using the microwave.  It was an awful lot quieter, allowed me to work with larger quantities and let me fill and dump the molds more easily.  I ended up giving it away a few years later when I realized I wasn't ever going to use it again.  

Edited January 25, 2015 by Kerry Beal (log)

[chocofoodie]

Take II: I rubbed the molds down with cocoa butter. I used cotton balls. When I scrape I get like cotton fluff so I'm worried about that being mixed in with the chocolate. I didn't see any on the molds though. Does the cocoa butter coating make the chocolate flow better? It seemed to me to be difficult to get enough chocolate to stay in the mold to make a shell that wasn't paper thin. I don't know what I'm doing lol. Wish me luck!

[Jim D.]

I used to coat cavities with cocoa butter but have stopped as I have never detected any difference in the unmolding process.  The idea was that it would lubricate the molds and make release easier; some people also said it increased the shine of the chocolates.

 

Those molds in the picture look good.  You do a much better scraping job than I usually manage.  Did you refrigerate them for a little while right after you emptied them (and waited a few minutes for crystallization to start)?

 

Good luck with this batch.

[chocofoodie]

Ok guys here they are :-) so they came out easier than usual. I popped them in the fridge for about 15 mins after I capped them before I attempted to pop them out. They came out with a little bit of banging. Much better than usual :-) they are not totally consistent. Some really are shinier than usual but some have a bit of a streak. It makes me wonder if that's from the cocoa butter? Or is the temper again slightly off? I tested the temperature and the temper this time and everything was good.

[Kerry Beal]

I don't generally rub with cocoa butter - just polish the mold with a lint free cloth (if I'm going to bother).

 

Shells still look a bit thin.  

 

Another thing to suggest - get a taping knife, polish the edge so there are no burrs, and give those molds another scrape.  The amount of chocolate I can see on the surface is going to interfere with the unmolding.  

[keychris]

streaks on the shells after demoulding are usually either unpolished moulds (the marks were there before you put the chocolate in) or contraction marks from the chocolate pulling away from the mould. In the last picture you posted of the empty shells, you can see some streaks in the chocolate - usually indicates temper is still not quite right. And definitely scrape the moulds again before you fill with ganache a cap them, as Kerry suggests!

 

Those demoulded chocs look pretty good though

[pastrygirl]

If your shells are too thin, let the filled mold sit a few minutes before dumping the excess so the chocolate starts to set a little. Or wait until the chocolate itself is more crystallized. It might be in temper, but if you let it cool a degree or two and agitate further to get more crystallization, it will be thicker when you are working with it. Of course this can go too far and result in super thick over-crystallized chocolate, but then you adjust by warming a few degrees to melt out some crystals or adding melted and cool but untempered chocolate to dilute the crystals.

[keychris]

Starting to go a bit off topic, but if you're using a high-fluidity couverture that's giving shells that are too thin, you could try double casting them - cast once, tap out the excess (as much as possible), leave it to just set and then repeat a second time so you have a double thickness shell. It's only worth doing with really fluid chocolate though, otherwise you'll get ridiculously thick shells.

[chocofoodie]

That's my chocolate. It's new. I don't know if it's the chocolate or things have changed in the past couple of years but when melted and tempered it runs like water. That stuff is so fluid it just pours out of the molds and there's practically nothing left behind to make a shell. I'll try your suggestions because my attempt resulted in a pool at the bottom (or technically the top) of the shell and really thin walls.

The second picture shows why I like to fill with a warmer more fluid ganache. The messy looking ones are with a cooled ganache. How warm can the ganache be before it ruins the temper of the shell?

So if you see streaks on the inside of the set shell that's a sign it's off temper?

I don't understand why the temper is off. I'm following the temperatures on the box. I warm to 43 or 44 and final temperature is 30.