Making Dim Sum at Home

[jo-mel]

In the places with rolling carts (which the places we favor happen to use), the only possible strategy for optimizing your experience is to try and get seated near the kitchen where you can get your food as freshly cooked as possible; you have no control over the order in which the carts come out of the kitchen.

LOL! The one restaurant where you actually want to sit near the kitchen door!

I also grab as grab can, as the carts go by. But I do wait for a sweet till last - especially if the Coconut Bar is chilled.

When doing Dim Sum at home I try to follow the 'lighter first' ----- for instance, not serving Scallion Pancakes at the beginning. But sometimes the cooking method takes precedence.

Which reminds me --- Dejah ---- Was it a buffet or sit down? Did you cook/serve, cook/serve, cook/serve and then sit, if it was a sit-down?

[Dejah]

Good Morning,

jo-mel: puff...puff...puff...it was cook, serve, cook, serve...

Two of our guests were unavoidably delayed...so it was a repeat performance 2 hours after we started.

I had steamed some items earlier as I am limited to a 4 burner electric stove. But everything else came together well...giving us a breather between items.

As our friends arrived and mingled, I started the evening with spiced beef or vegetarian cigars made with phyllo pastry, coated with sesame seeds and baked 'til crispy. Not much of a wine person, I did have Portugese mateus in honour of our Portugese friend

My table (seats 14 snuggly)was set with dipping sauces, pickled cucumber, chopped cilantro, green onions, chili oil, century eggs and cut pieces of yu tiao, appetizer plates, chopsticks and spoons, and lots of napkins.

By the time we were seated, my double stacker steamer of ha gow was ready. I transferred these to 2 platters. I also served the congee at this time.

The sui mai and meat balls I had put into 10" glass pie plates. This way, I saved all the juices and makes it easier to plop into and take out of the steam trays. The sui mai followed the ha gow. I had blanched the gai lan earlier, placed on a platter. These I zapped in the microwave as I preped the oyster sauce and hot oil as someone suggested. The splatter was impressive! This was a welcome item.

The curry chicken puffs were ready from the oven. Crazy, but I love Mexican salsa with these, so I put out bowls of this cold stuff. I had to keep reminding people: Don't fill up on any one thing! Try everything first, then go back again!

Then it was meat balls that "bounce" These I served with pieces of romaine lettuce and cilantro. I found the meat balls took longer steaming than other items, because they are pingpong ball size of solid meat. So I cooked them for 15 minutes earlier in the day, cooled then re-steamed for 15 minutes before serving. Didn't affect the texture at all. I also put out the sticky rice in lotus leaves steamed earlier and kept hot in a chafer.

The baos took 10 minutes of re-steaming to warm up and stayed fluffy. I made chicken wings, BBQ ribs and si gup ribs to serve with these. The wings and ribs were in foil and warmed up the same time as the curry puffs. The si gup I kept warm in the slow cooker.

Ho fun with beansprouts and long pieces of green onion finished the list.

Slices of fresh pineapple was a good finish after all that starch and meat.

There was lots of Chinese tea, Guan Yen something...a gift from one of my Taiwanese students.

We didn't get to the red bean soup...just couldn't handle it.

I put thru' one load in my dishwasher before I went to bed. The counters are still covered. Must wake up obedient daughter to help!

I love feeding people and watching them enjoy new foods. Made the days of prep. worthwhile...but damn! I hate cleaning up!

[jo-mel]

WHEW!!!!!! You deserve a rest!!!

Sounds like you were well organized --- which is the key. And------the order in which you served, seemed to answer Loufood's suggested soft rules.

Did you serve anything in the steamers, themselves?

Do you have one of those butane stoves that you can put on the counter? I have several that I use both in my cooking classes, and when I am doing alot of cooking on my own. It frees up stove burners ---and especially good for some large bulky things like steamers. An electric wok is also good for this.

I've never done the hot oil as was suggested, (except over steamed fish) but I sure will next time I do vegetables, and will make sure everyone hears the 'sizzle'. LOL! It's amazing how a simple vegetable dish can be so welcomed when you are having all those doughy things. Thank goodness for microwaves!!

That tea sounds like Te Guan Yin, or Ti Kuan Yin (pick your transliteration) one of my favorites.

Tell me --- did you eat anything yourself?? I have a hard time eating when I undertake a big meal like yours --- but if there is anything left over, the next day, I pig out!

Your guests must have been impressed. You should take a bow and sit back with a cup of that tea -------after the @#$%$# clean-up, of course!

Thanks for coming back and letting us all enjoy!

[Dejah]

Second load of dishes going now. Mainly pots, pans, platters left to do.

I ate very little while cooking and serving. Like you, I find it hard to eat when I have a large party. Being a good host, anticipating and looking after others' needs is foremost, I guess I had sui mai, beef balls and congee left over, so that's what we just finished having for lunch.

My counter space was pretty much full...but I have a 2 tiered island with my stove top on one side. This was great for keeping food in chafers. I have seen the butane stoves. Must get one before the next party!

You are right about being organized. I make planning notes, then post a "work-list" right on the fridge close to my stove. Can't trust my memory when there is a crowd

trying to visit with me as I cook!

Didn't serve anything in bamboo steamers. With the quantities needed, it just wasn't practical. I do have a restaurant size steel steamer, but my stove wouldn't allow anything else then. I transfer the food to platters, and many have bamboo motifs...Good substitutes?

Cooking classes?! Tell me more!!!

We have a Chinese cooking class at the local community college. I'd love to be able to do something like that, but the instructor has been teaching the course for several years...entranched I've had many requests, but I don't want to ruffle any feathers. From what I have heard, he doesn't do alot of authentic. Couldn't do it at home. My family would rebel!

[Pan]

Sounds like you cooked up an impressive feast, Dejah! One question: What are si gup ribs?

[jo-mel]

We have a Chinese cooking class at the local community college. I'd love to be able to do something like that, but the instructor has been teaching the course for several years...entranched I've had many requests, but I don't want to ruffle any feathers. From what I have heard, he doesn't do alot of authentic. Couldn't do it at home. My family would rebel!

You could try doing "word of mouth" classes. That is how I got started. I've done classes in my own home and in church/school/woman's clubs kitchens, and believe me --- doing it at home is better!! All that schlepping is a pain in the neck!! One time, I forgot a prepared container of sauce, another time a bottle of soy sauce!

The work involved doing it at home is worth it. I do classes for an Adult School and do it in my own home. Their insurance covers me, and I don't have a time limit. The classes are a certain length of time, of course, but I don't have to rush to be out before the janitor puts the lights out!

It is a lot of work, but when you find interesting people, who really want to learn, it is rewarding. Of course, you still have people who just want a night out, who will never, ever do the dishes on their own, and who only want beef/broccoli. ARGGGHHHH!

You already have the organizational skills, and that is half the battle.

If you have something to offer that is different from the instructor at the Community College, why not give it a try? Especially if you can do something a little more sophisticated than he is doing.

[Shiewie]

One question: What are si gup ribs?

Think si gup (jup) ribs are ribs in marinated soy sauce.

Dejah - a most impressive dinner!

[Dejah]

PAN: si gup (jup) pi gwut = black bean garlic ribs, which I do marinate in soya sauce and cornstarch before steaming. My phonetic translations are terrible.

JO-MEL: I understand what you mean about convience of teaching at home...everything you'd need would be right on hand. I wish I had the HomeEc. kitchen I had when I taught high school...8 cooking stations! We did do stir-fry, wontons, etc. In my evening immigrant ESL class, one of the lessons on following instructions was making Jell-o no bake cheesecake. The first time, I forgot the sugar. This term, I forgot BOWLS! Luckily, a good friend lived close by...

Next summer ( I hope) I am installing an old commercial gas stove in the backyard. Perhaps then, I can think about doing some classes.

What are some of the dishes you have "taught"? Are your classes for Chinese cooking or a mixture?

[jo-mel]

HomeEc. cooking stations!! How I disliked giving classes in them! No control! It's hard to be everywhere at once. Teen-agers listened to directions, but adults went their own way. I would explain and do a dish from scratch so that all all could see the preparation and procedure ---- then the groups went to their 'station' to do it themselves. I could hear the comments: "Just toss it all in at once - that's the way I do it at home." / "She said NOT to burn the garlic!" / "I just cut it all up, any old way --- it all tastes the same." ARRGGHHHHH!

The interests have changed over the years. At one time people wanted to do Beggar's Chicken, or Tea Smoked Duck or some other dish that required special preparation. But now they want instant food. I do Basic Wok/Stir Fry classes, and Basic Dim Sum every once in a while, but for the most part I try to follow a theme. Just Chinese soups, or fish, or a region, just sauces, interesting vegetables beyond broccoli, noodles, all steamed dishes, a lunch menu, casserole/sandy pots ---- whatever catches my fancy. Some is total hands-on, some is partial hands on. I can do pretty much whatever I want. No more than 8 people and all Chinese cooking.

I've given up the demos at different organizations, and catering. Now it is just Spring and Fall classes for an adult school.

I use my gas stove for things as they cook, but I use my butane stoves at a special round table for the actual cooking -- like stir/fries or deep/fries etc. Without those stoves, I would be lost. I used to have a small propane stove with a quart tank and a loooooong hose. It was very impractical. The tank itself would freeze up, and the whole thing scared me. When the good butane ones came out, it was a God-send! There are different kinds. If you decide to get one, let me know so I can give you some tips.

[Dejah]

JO-MEL,

Yes, please! send information and tips for the butane burner.

My daughter laughed this morning when I called it a bunsen burner...LOL!

[jo-mel]

Yes, please! send information and tips for the butane burner.

My daughter laughed this morning when I called it a bunsen burner...LOL!

LOL! (Bunsen!)

For really great heat from a portable stove, you need propane, but they can be a problem in a closed area because of the gas. There are portable units that can be connected to the natural gas line.

Then there are induction woks. Very high heat (BTU - 45,000) --- VERY expensive.

The patio wok units use propane, too. They are portable and expensive.

Viking has some units, but I believe they are propane or can be connected to the gas lines.

For plain old butane, you won't get the BTUs of propane, but you can get some almost as hot or maybe hotter than your gas stove. Regular stoves range from 7000 BTUs to 14,000 BTUs. That may all have changed since I last looked into it.

I have four different butane stoves, but the best one, by far, is one by "Iwatani". They make a couple of models, but my favorite is the "The Cassette-Feu 30-FW ". (This is not the same Cassette au Feu that is often advertized,, and was one of the first butane stoves to appear on the market. I have one of those, and the heat output is very low.)

The Cassette-Feu 30-FW has a unique feature that is worth the $60-$70 I paid for it: Normally when a butane can reaches the end of the gas, the flame slowly goes down and stays at a low level for awhile before it finally dies out. Very ineffective for wok cooking.

Not the 30-FW. It keeps the high flame until it is just about out of gas. The flame goes down quickly and then goes off. Also, the can stays in place by a magnet -- not an outside lever that can pop up. This model has a BTU of 12,000. Not the same as a restaurant range, but with an adjusted stir/frying technique, you can do a good job.

Their other model is less expensive, and has a BTU of 10,000.

Maybe others have other experiences or ideas?

[Dejah]

Many thanks, Jo-Mel. for all the info'.

I'll be checking into the restaurant supply and Chinese stores when I next hit Winnipeg.

I enjoyed your response on HomeEc stations... The perfect teaching station may be the semi-circle counter, like on Emeril Live, with the students and their own cooktops facing the instructor. Ah....dream on....

I think most of my "potential students" would just like me to cook my recipes for them as they watch. I love to cook for them, but it gets expensive. Someone suggested a "private dining club" at my house...not worth the hassel! and really, what could one charge? The cooking itself is quick, but the prep.....

I've packaged up Xmas care parcels for some friends...assortment of dim sum that they can steam at home. For our own extended family Xmas dinner, we are having Angus Prime rib roast!

[Dejah]

I'm about 3 months late...but I just joined this forum. If anyone is still interested, here is my Mom's recipe for white fluffy steamed baos.

Pastry ingredients:

4 cups all purpose flour ( measure to 8oz. line in measuring cup)

sugar (measure to 7 oz line in measuring cup)

1/2 tsp. salt

4 heaping tsp. baking powder

2 cups LESS 1 TBSP cold milk

1 tbsp veg. oil

I use my KitchenAid with the paddles.

Mix dry ingrdients, then blend in milk and oil.

Knead for 10 minutes. Let the dough rest for 5 minutes..

Knead again until smooth. Cut into desired size balls. Roll out into circles, thinner atround the edges.

Fill with desired filling. Place on muffin liners.

Steam for 20 minutes.

I lift the lid after 15 mintes, wipe the inside as it will be full of condensation. Then steam again for another 5 or 6 minutes.

I think the MILK may be the deciding factor in white fluffy baos.

I have since found packaged bao flour at Chinese grocery stores. I think it must have baking powder mixed in. All I have to add is sugar and, again, it is MILK and not water. The brand I use has a 3 bells symbol on the upper left hand corner. I often make bao with chicken, Chinese mushrooms, lapcheong, onion and ginger. If there are some left over, I put into freezer bags and into the freezer for quick snacks.

[herbacidal]

this topic isn't fully-formed in my head yet.

I don't know that it's even half-formed yet.

Something said in a thread in the PA forum got me thinking.

I don't know if there have been any adaptations of dimsum by other regions.

I don't recall seeing any in China as of 1997.

Does anyone else know of any?

The more I think about it, I'm thinking primarily about the idea of small dishes.

Not necessarily served for lunch, although the parallels would be most applicable there.

Off the top of my head, the various snacky/street food type stuff could be applicable, but they would be comparable to snacky/street food in Cantonese, and not necessarily for dimsum.

Actually, maybe I am thinking of both.

Are there versions of small plates served primarily for lunch in a sitdown environment that have emerged in other regions of China in the last 6 years or so?

[Big Bunny]

In "Land of Plenty", Fuchsia Dunlop mentions a sort of 20-dish(?) sampler of regional goodies that is popular in Sichuan. I don't have the book handy for details.

BB

[chengb02]

Shanghai has their own sort of dim sum that is very popular and has is nothing new.

[jo-mel]

Well ---- I just hope that no one comes up with some idea like -- General Tso's Chicken on a Stick!!

Since the Hong Kong chefs are innovative, would they be the logical ones to come up with new ideas? Weren't they the ones who gave us that mayonaise topped shrimp -- or was it a scallop?

[herbacidal]

Shanghai has their own sort of dim sum that is very popular and has is nothing new.

Really?

I'd like to know more about this. Gary, where are you?

Since the Hong Kong chefs are innovative, would they be the logical ones to come up with new ideas? Weren't they the ones who gave us that mayonaise topped shrimp -- or was it a scallop?

Are the Hong Kong chefs innovative, or any more innovative than any other Chinese chefs?

Mayonnaise topped shrimp---are you referring to what is often served as a banquet dish--- shrimp with walnuts in a sweet mayonnaise sauce, sometimes served on a bed of broccoli?

[aprilmei]

Maybe what chengb02 means is stuff like xiao long bao and san cheen bao that are now being served at dim sum places, at least here in Hong Kong. I also had these types of things a few weeks ago when I was in Shanghai.

At the Shanghainese restaurants in Hong Kong, they've taken on dim sum in a big way. The better places like Victoria City and Xiao Nan Guo (which is a branch of the original in Shanghai) are very popular for weekend breakfast/lunch.

[dumpling]

Since the Hong Kong chefs are innovative, would they be the logical ones to come up with new ideas? Weren't they the ones who gave us that mayonaise topped shrimp -- or was it a scallop?

Are the Hong Kong chefs innovative, or any more innovative than any other Chinese chefs?

Mayonnaise topped shrimp---are you referring to what is often served as a banquet dish--- shrimp with walnuts in a sweet mayonnaise sauce, sometimes served on a bed of broccoli?

There is actually a dim sum dish, scallop that is served in a scallop shell with mayonnaisy sauce on the top of it. Featured in most Hong Kong style places I've been to, but like the special dumpling soups, has only a limited amount cooked so not served in the same quantity as something like siu mai or har gow.

Edited March 16, 2004 by dumpling (log)

[jo-mel]

Since the Hong Kong chefs are innovative, would they be the logical ones to come up with new ideas? Weren't they the ones who gave us that mayonaise topped shrimp -- or was it a scallop?

Are the Hong Kong chefs innovative, or any more innovative than any other Chinese chefs?

Mayonnaise topped shrimp---are you referring to what is often served as a banquet dish--- shrimp with walnuts in a sweet mayonnaise sauce, sometimes served on a bed of broccoli?

There is actually a dim sum dish, scallop that is served in a scallop shell with mayonnaisy sauce on the top of it. Featured in most Hong Kong style places I've been to, but like the special dumpling soups, has only a limited amount cooked so not served in the same quantity as something like siu mai or har gow.

I was referring to the one described by Dumpling. The individual shell with the scallop and mayo-type topping.

About Hong Kong chefs being innovative --- Maybe they aren't more innovative than other chefs, but the changes in Chinese cooking- (aside from fusion cooking) seem to be from Hong Kong chefs. They may have traditional training, but with the international influences in HK, it seems they may have expanded beyond the classical, in their attempt to be creative. When the Hong Kong chefs started to come to NYC, in anticipation to 1997, we began to see Black Pepper Sauces and the mayo stuff. Coincidence?

Of course, this is just my gut feeling. No proof. I could be off the wall.

[herbacidal]

Maybe what chengb02 means is stuff like xiao long bao and san cheen bao that are now being served at dim sum places, at least here in Hong Kong. I also had these types of things a few weeks ago when I was in Shanghai.

At the Shanghainese restaurants in Hong Kong, they've taken on dim sum in a big way. The better places like Victoria City and Xiao Nan Guo (which is a branch of the original in Shanghai) are very popular for weekend breakfast/lunch.

What's san cheen bao?

There is actually a dim sum dish, scallop that is served in a scallop shell with mayonnaisy sauce on the top of it.

Oh, that one. I forgot about that. I haven't seen those since 1997. Wasn't aware of it being served for dimsum, but I can see why it would be. It's eye-catching.

I don't think it would be good if you didn't catch it in the first five minutes after leaving the broiler though.

FWIW, restaurants buy those shells. Then they put scallops together with a spoonful of that sweet mayonnaise sauce under a broiler. Unless they've changed the cooking method.

[herbacidal]

About Hong Kong chefs being innovative --- Maybe they aren't more innovative than other chefs, but the changes in Chinese cooking- (aside from fusion cooking) seem to be from Hong Kong chefs. They may have traditional training, but with the international influences in HK, it seems they may have expanded beyond the classical, in their attempt to be creative. When the Hong Kong chefs started to come to NYC, in anticipation to 1997, we began to see Black Pepper Sauces and the mayo stuff. Coincidence?

I'm sure NYC had to have black pepper sauce and mayonnaise shrimp before 1997.

When we had our Chinese restaurant in Philly, we got our chef from NYC.

And that was back in 1991. That's when I started eating stuff like that.

[jo-mel]

About Hong Kong chefs being innovative --- Maybe they aren't more innovative than other chefs, but the changes in Chinese cooking- (aside from fusion cooking) seem to be from Hong Kong chefs. They may have traditional training, but with the international influences in HK, it seems they may have expanded beyond the classical, in their attempt to be creative. When the Hong Kong chefs started to come to NYC, in anticipation to 1997, we began to see Black Pepper Sauces and the mayo stuff.  Coincidence?

I'm sure NYC had to have black pepper sauce and mayonnaise shrimp before 1997.

When we had our Chinese restaurant in Philly, we got our chef from NYC.

And that was back in 1991. That's when I started eating stuff like that.

How long before 1997 did the chefs start to leave HK? I would guess it would be long before and because of the changeover. A couple of HK banks opened up early in the 90s in NYC's Chinatown, but they fizzled out.

Do you have any idea how the Black Pepper dishes started? Not as the black pepper in H&S soup and Northern dishes, but as in sauces over sizzling platters, and over beef fillets?

[herbacidal]

About Hong Kong chefs being innovative --- Maybe they aren't more innovative than other chefs, but the changes in Chinese cooking- (aside from fusion cooking) seem to be from Hong Kong chefs. They may have traditional training, but with the international influences in HK, it seems they may have expanded beyond the classical, in their attempt to be creative. When the Hong Kong chefs started to come to NYC, in anticipation to 1997, we began to see Black Pepper Sauces and the mayo stuff.  Coincidence?

I'm sure NYC had to have black pepper sauce and mayonnaise shrimp before 1997.

When we had our Chinese restaurant in Philly, we got our chef from NYC.

And that was back in 1991. That's when I started eating stuff like that.

How long before 1997 did the chefs start to leave HK? I would guess it would be long before and because of the changeover. A couple of HK banks opened up early in the 90s in NYC's Chinatown, but they fizzled out.

Do you have any idea how the Black Pepper dishes started? Not as the black pepper in H&S soup and Northern dishes, but as in sauces over sizzling platters, and over beef fillets?

Actually, I think I misunderstood your previous statement.

I thought you were saying you started seeing black pepper sauce and mayonnaise scallops in NYC in 1997.

Anyway, I do understand how black pepper filet is cooked.

Actually, it's even better if you can find a good butcher with short ribs.

Short ribs in black pepper sauce isn't available anymore in Philly Chinatown, but there's this old Jewish butcher we used to use for short ribs.

I liked and still do like short ribs in black pepper sauce better than the filets.

Too bad it's not available. The filets aren't bad, mind you. Very tender and they carry the sauce pretty well. Just better with the short ribs.

Traditionally we used to stir fry the short ribs/filets in with sliced onions, sliced green peppers and the black pepper sauce in the wok. (At least I think we had onions. It's been a while since I've had it.)

The hot plate is heated on the stove over the burners.

When the dish is done, it's scooped out onto the waiting hot plate,

which is itself sitting on a wooden board cut to size.

It always made a nice loud sizzle as you walked through the dining room.

Many customers turned their head and asked what that was.

It did inspire many a copycat order.

Ah, a trip down memory lane.

Edited March 17, 2004 by herbacidal (log)