Oldest living eGulleters tell all

[robyn]

About chickens…back then, chickens were all free range or “yard” chickens, as Brooks calls them.  They definitely tasted better, probably due to the varied diet, and it was necessary to cook them longer for tenderness.  Farmers raised them from baby chicks in the spring; around six weeks most of them were butchered for frying hens, with the remainder kept for laying hens.  Occasionally, or when they were too old, a laying hen would be killed for stewing.  This is the origin of “tough old bird” I’m sure.

When I referred above to growing up with good food, some of you were probably skeptical given the restaurant descriptions.  What I meant was that growing up on a family farm we ate seasonal food.  Our vegetables and fruits were grown on the farm, or traded with other farmers, or picked at specialty farms.  We picked morels and blackberries and asparagus in the wild.  We gorged on strawberries, corn on the cob, tomatoes, knowing we would not taste their like again for a year. We raised our own pork, beef, lamb, poultry.  Much of the summer was spent in canning, freezing, pickling, and preserving.  Many farms had root cellars—ours was a “cave”—to store potatoes and apples, mostly.

Grocery stores were very small, simply because there wasn’t much to sell.  We bought things like sugar, flour, cheese, ice cream, iceberg lettuce, Jell-O, bread, and canned goods when we either didn’t raise it or ran out.  My dad bought cases of stuff we used most:  crushed pineapple, catsup, tuna and tomato soup.  There were a few prepared foods like Hostess cupcakes and pineapple pies, and a chocolate cake and vanilla ice cream cake roll called Newlyweds we all loved.  We got our first television set when I was twelve in 1950, and TV dinners and cake mixes became available.

I swear that all of the available meat back then was graded prime.  When I first heard stores bragging because they featured choice I thought they were crazy.  No one back then would ever dream of eating anything graded choice, much less select, barely a step up from a grade that used to be (perhaps still is, but I haven’t heard the term for a few years) called “canners and cutters”.

Most people didn't grow up on farms in the 40's and 50's. My husband and I didn't. We both remember that the food at home and at restaurants (which we didn't visit very often) was - at best - mediocre - and both of our mothers were lousy cooks.

I'm not sure what decade you're talking about when it comes to meat grading. If I'm reading my history correctly - meat grading wasn't mandatory for the most part until after the Korean War (except during WWII and the Korean War) - so if you're talking about the 30's - I doubt your recollection is accurate. And who ate a lot of meat during WW II (I am not old enough to remember rationing - I was born in 1947 - but my mother - born in 1920 - certainly is)? Look here for a history of meat grading in the US. Robyn

[Fat Guy]

Meat grading has always been, and remains, voluntary.

[robyn]

On the other hand - I suspect the chicken the fellow in Syracuse was eating was pretty much the same chicken he'd been eating for a long time - and he just had more difficulty tasting what he was eating.

The point I failed to make adequately in my post was that this gentleman, in contrast to many folks in his age group, appeared not to have suffered that significant decline in his ability to discern subtle changes in taste or texture. He had no complaints about our fish or beef - only the chicken. I'm curious as to when the real shift to the type of mass production chicken farms occurred. I refer to the Tyson and Perdue style factories in which special feeds and techniques are used to pump out "full-sized" chickens in half that Mother Nature would take to grow them. I have to wonder if, as someone else has pointed out, the feed is an issue. I've purchased and prepared "free range" chicken within the past few years and found it to little different from regular grocery store chicken.

Just last week I made fried chicken livers. I have customarily used the fresh ones that the gorcery store emat department had available. This time all I could get were Tyson brand frozen chicken livers. They had distinctly less flavor than the ones I've been using previously and I dont think it was just the fact that they were frozen.

I don't think we're competent to assess what goes on with a particular really old person (I deal with lots of them several times a week when I visit my father-in-law's nursing home).

It's said that "nostalgia" is the "good old days multiplied by a bad memory".

The differences between this man's perceptions of chicken and beef might have been due to dentures - or perhaps it was just one of those things. I can barely figure out the people I deal with on a regular basis - much less people I've never met . I listen to elderly people complaining about food all the time - and everyone complains about something different (but all of them complain about something). The only common denominator I've been able to find is that older people tend to want to eat dishes that they're familar with - they're not big on experimenting. Robyn

[Fat Guy]

The evolution of people's tastes as they age is an interesting subject, but let's push it onto another thread. Here, we're talking about the evolution of restaurants.

[robyn]

Meat grading has always been, and remains, voluntary.

If I'm reading this article correctly - meat grading was mandatory during WWII and the Korean War. Otherwise - it has been voluntary. Of course - I didn't write the article and can't vouch for it. Robyn

[Fat Guy]

If by mandatory it is meant that slaughterhouses were compelled to pay for grading, that would be incorrect. It may be that during wartime, in order to control the black market, the government provided grading for free. Either way, let's get this topic back on track now.

[jo-mel]

. . . artistic cooking has introduced 'horizontal' displays, with the fried onions on top of the steak, which may be on top of the beans, or the beans may be displayed as a frame for the steak, with a scattering of almonds for added visual effect. 

This has the effect of getting much of the food away from the warmed plate and exposing it to air circulation, so that your food will have started to get cold even before it arrives at the table. In fact, if a melting effect threatens to destablize the architecture, the plate may not be warmed at all.

Scientific chefs are working on an antigravitational device which will allow soup to be served vertically.

LOL!

Just taking the time to arrange the food artistically on the plate, would tend to cool it, I would think.

The bit about "In fact, if a melting effect threatens to destablize the architecture------" -----If the foods sit under that warming light, waiting to be picked up by the waiter/waitress/waitperson, too long, then the top of the tower of food just might be affected by the light --- being that it is so close to the source of heat!

I wouldn't like to see food plopped on the plate, as in a hash line, but I think the old axiom 'hot foods hot and cold foods cold' should be the rule in serving --- not towers accented by a stalk of leafy celery.

About the soup ----SHHH! Don't give anyone any ideas!

[jo-mel]

How about the change in table manners, then and now?

When I was little, I didn't notice others and their own manners, as I was too busy trying to mind my own, but I think that the 30s and 40s dining would be so special that everyone would be on their best behavior. No one would even think of wearing a hat, or talking with a mouth full of food or chew with their mouth open. I'm talking about fine dining restaurants, not diners and counters. At counters, because you are usually sitting on a stool, and it is less formal, you tend to have your elbows on the counter --- or at least you tend to lean on the counter.

Today, it seems as tho anything goes. I've seen some of the above in some of the better places. Some firms even give courses in table manners, don't they?

[balmagowry]

The subject of chicken raises an issue, though: does anybody order chicken in upscale restaurants anymore? I remember the first time I was on Arthur Schwartz's show, somebody called in and asked me if I thought it was possible to judge restaurants -- as Craig Claiborne did -- on the quality of their roasted chicken. My first thought was that on most upscale restaurant menus today there isn't a roasted chicken to be found, and if there is one it's often only there as a token offering. There is, for example, not a single chicken dish (no less a roasted chicken) on the most recent menu I have from Jean Georges.

Technically, I don't qualify for this thread, except insofar as I can quote the reminiscences of older friends and of my parents (actually, it occurs to me that some of these might actually be of some value; I'll see what more I can harvest as opportunity arises, and report back if there's anything good). Anyway, the above, along with other remarks about changes over time in restaurants' use of chicken and customers' attitudes toward same, irresistibly reminds me of a favorite anecdote of my father's. He was born in 1926, the oldest of three boys; the family was a moderately prosperous Jewish one living in the Bronx, and from the time the three kids got old enough to have dinner "out," one of their great treats, a rare and a darkly exotic adventure, was to be taken "downtown" to eat... Chinese! Of course, New York Chinese in those benighted days (early-mid-1930s, roughly) consisted of chow mein and not a whole lot else, so that is what they looked forward to and that is what they ordered. Invariably, when it came to the table, my grandmother would subject it to elaborate scrutiny before allowing anyone else to touch it. When at last she gave the go-ahead and they all piled into it, she would always say, "Well, it's OK this time, but you can never be too careful, children, so you should always look closely. I don't trust these people - you never know when they might try to cheat you and serve you" (here her face would assume an expression of utter disdain) "veal, instead of real chicken!" (Apologies to any Chinese personnel present, not to mention any calves - I do assure you we are all, individually and collectively, one hell of a lot more enlightened these days about both people and food; but things were different back then and this attitude was considered perfectly natural. And a revisionist I ain't.) I don't know how prevalent this concern was in society at large, but I bet it was pretty typical of the conscientious Jewish mother of the time.

Kind of a poignant contrast to the tale of the Bronx Chop, don't you think?

[afoodnut]

Let me try to crystallize a few issues, some of which I'm drawing from the comments here and some of which are simply on my mind. I'm wondering if those who have already posted (and those who haven't) have any comments on the following:

- My own memories, back to the 1970s, are somewhat contradictory on the question of ingredients. It seems to me there have been both amazing improvements and remarkable declines. For example, the availability of fresh vegetables of all kinds that we have today would have been unthinkable in the past, yet today it's extremely difficult to get high quality beef and pork. What are your recollections of ingredients back in the 1950s and earlier? What was better, what was worse, and is anything the same?

- When was the first time you all dined at a formal restaurant with white tablecloths and tuxedoed waiters? What did you eat? How does that experience compare to dining at a top-rated restaurant today -- a French Laundry, Charlie Trotter's, or the equivalent?

- Who is the first restaurant "celebrity chef" you remember hearing of? How has your own view of chefs evolved over time? Presumably, in the 1950s you couldn't have named a single famous American restaurant chef because there weren't any -- how and when did that change for you, and what do you think about it?

- Aside from what I've listed here, what do you all think are the salient points of comparison between restaurants then and now?

Okay, I'll try to comment focusing on a few of these questions, adding some more detail to my earlier posts. Overall, I think the biggest difference to be that restaurants were more local and regional. You *could* tell where you were by the food served in restaurants. And you could be pretty sure that humans prepared your food.

To put my view in perspective, I was a child in NYC in the 1950's. My family was middle class Jewish; Our home was kosher, but we did not keep kosher out of the home. (Because of that, I had one very important personal quirky standard; I always tried to order food that could not be kosher, since we couldn't have it at home. So I ate shrimp, and lobster, and pork, and steamers, and veal parmagiana [unless of course we were at a kosher deli].) We ate at restaurants virtually every Sunday. My father always said that he considered Sunday my mother's day off, and she should not need to cook. (That was different from not cooking on Saturday, which was tradition because of Sabbath.)

Going to restaurants was a regular part of our life, and going to "fancy" restaurants for special occasions was part of that. But the emphasis of the occasion was more social, rather than focusing and requiring concentration on the food in the way of a French Laundry or a Charlie Trotter's. Perhaps fancy restaurants then were more focused on serving food that pleased diners, rather than serving food that would impress diners.

Our food in general was more local and seasonal. So there was less variety, but probably better quality. Food didn't travel so far. As far as ingredients we used at home, the egg-man from New Jersey delivered eggs, pickles, and sour tomatoes to us weekly. The milkman delivered milk fresh from his New Jersey farm. During the summer there was another truck farmer from New Jersey who delivered vegetables. There was also the seltzer man who delivered seltzer in the blue bottles with the pressurized lever top (I can't remember what that was called.) He picked up the rechargeable empties the next week, when he delivered. The local bakery baked rye breads, and pumpernickel, and onion rolls, and coffeecakes, and black and whites, and brownies. The appetizing next door to the bakery had all the smoked fish, and salmon salad, and herring, and halvah, and pickles, and olives; the bagel bakery on the other side of the appetizing had bagels (plain, and onion, and salt; they also had bialys.) There were certainly no avocadoes, no kiwis, no chiles, no tortillas or the like; fortunately there also were no jalapeno or sun-dried tomato bagels!

I knew Mama Leone was the guiding soul behind Leone's; she was long dead by the time I was eating in her restaurant, but it was clear that her recipes and food lived on. Early "food celebrity" names I remember are ones like Julia Child, and Craig Claiborne, and MFK Fisher, and James Beard, not those of chefs. When I think about it now, Alice Waters with Chez Panisse is probably the first celebrity restaurateur I remember hearing of.

Edited March 2, 2004 by afoodnut (log)

[robyn]

My husband is older than I am (flirting with 60). Asked him tonight. He doesn't recall ever going to a restaurant before his father took him out for his high school graduation. His family wasn't poor mind you. Kind of middle class in Bergen County NJ. His father was in sales and took customers out to restaurants and country clubs - they ate steaks and played golf. But children weren't part of the restaurant eating experience - and women (like my husband's mother) weren't either. Mom and the kids stayed home. I suspect my husband's experiences aren't atypical for most people his age in the US. Robyn

[Pan]

My grandmother and grandfather on my father's side met at an anarchist vegetarian restaurant in New York (Brooklyn, I think? I'll try to remember to ask my father), and I figure that was in the first decade of the 20th century, probably 1906 or 1907. So some people were eating out a long, long time ago.

[afoodnut]

My grandmother and grandfather on my father's side met at an anarchist vegetarian restaurant in New York (Brooklyn, I think? I'll try to remember to ask my father), and I figure that was in the first decade of the 20th century, probably 1906 or 1907. So some people were eating out a long, long time ago.

And my maternal grandfather, great aunts, and great uncles just might have been sitting at the table next to them.

My husband is older than I am (flirting with 60). Asked him tonight. He doesn't recall ever going to a restaurant before his father took him out for his high school graduation. His family wasn't poor mind you. Kind of middle class in Bergen County NJ. His father was in sales and took customers out to restaurants and country clubs - they ate steaks and played golf. But children weren't part of the restaurant eating experience - and women (like my husband's mother) weren't either. Mom and the kids stayed home. I suspect my husband's experiences aren't atypical for most people his age in the US. Robyn

This entire thread is fascinating; it highlights for me that there probably is no "typical" experience, and I hesitate to support robyn in saying that her *husband's experiences aren't atypical for most people his age in the US'*.

If we all lived the same lives, and had the same experiences, there would be no point to telling our stories. I'm thinking that the reason Fat Guy asked for us to tell of our memories was for him to learn of some of the differences and find some similarities in experiences from different people who at least at this point in their lives consider food to be a major interest. We did not all start from the same place, background, and culture.

I daresay I'm in the same age range as Robyn; I was the youngest in our family, and my brother and sister, who are both over 60, shared our family experience. Our experience was typical of our friends and family, in that time and place.

I hope to hear more stories from more parts of the U.S. and the rest of the world.

Edited March 2, 2004 by afoodnut (log)

[Richard Kilgore]

John Whiting had mentioned MFK Fisher on women eating alone and Steven I think you were not familiar with this. There are several pieces on this in her book "The Gastronomic Me", which is in the collection of five of her books, "The Art of Eating." Also other references in other pieces. What a fine writer.

This is a wonderful thread. While not 60, there is a lot of familiar material here and a surfacing of memories.

[afoodnut]

I think I have a vague recollection of being taken to Rumplemayer's by my grandma. Is that possible? When did it close? And where was it?

In my dim recall, Rumplemayer's was the place to go for Ice Cream Sundaes. It might have been on Central Park South (perhaps in a hotel?). I don't know when it closed; I left NY when I was a young adult, moving to Chicago for law school, and then west from there, and I didn't really keep up with the New York food scene until my discovery of egullet. Was there also an ice cream place called Serendipity or something similar?

[ruthcooks]

I would agree with Robyn that my recollections from the 30's would not be accurate--unless you take the word of a 21 month old!

[rozrapp]

I think I have a vague recollection of being taken to Rumplemayer's by my grandma. Is that possible? When did it close? And where was it?

In my dim recall, Rumplemayer's was the place to go for Ice Cream Sundaes. It might have been on Central Park South (perhaps in a hotel?). I don't know when it closed; I left NY when I was a young adult, moving to Chicago for law school, and then west from there, and I didn't really keep up with the New York food scene until my discovery of egullet. Was there also an ice cream place called Serendipity or something similar?

Rumplemeyer's was, indeed, on Central Park S., in the St. Moritz Hotel, which is now the Ritz Carlton (where Atelier is located). I, too, don't remember when it closed. Serendipity, however, is alive and well and still very popular.

[TatarsHat]

BTW Steve, Great topic!!

I have so many memories of restaurants back in the late 50's growing up on LI. That puts me at age 7. Luchow's in NYC... Manero's (Steak House) between Port Blvd. and Northern Blvd. Louie's Restaurant on Manhasset Bay. ( I started working there when I was 7). Ho Jo's, of course past Douglaston. ( Fried Clams and Mocha Chip ice cream... ummm..

This topic has knocked a few cob webs out.

[jayt90]

In 1974 My wife and I attended Stonehenge, way up in the hills of Conneticutt.

It took a long time to get there from Saw Mill River Parkway, and we were late.

The receptionist counterered, "We'll have to feed you!" and they did.

We started with thick country soups, followed by veal rouladen, and sauerbraten, accompanied by an unlimited supply of fresh white corn on the cob. The service was imppeccable, and the mere Beaujolais we chose went down perfectly.

The chef came out to greet his diners, and we had a fine discussion with Albert Stockli. He had retired to this haven after developing menus for all the famous Restaurant Associates spots in New York and Newark. We went there because he was written up in Esquire by Baron de Groot (the blind critic) as one chef who used and depended on the local produce. I wish more chefs would do the same today, rather than using foods out of season. If you could visit Strockli's Stonehenge, you would know why.

[Milt]

I was born in Oklahoma City in 1942, moved to Kansas City in 1945, back to Oklahoma City in 1949 and then to Farmington, New Mexico in 1951. My father loved to travel, so we had some wonderful vacations during the 1950s.

O'Mealey's Cafeteria at 23rd and Classen Blvd. was where we frequently had Sunday lunch when we visited family in Oklahoma City. On a beautiful day the line would be half a block long waiting to get into the building for the serving line. I always ordered chicken pie.

While living in Kansas City, my father discovered King Joy Lo on the second floor, over Katz Drug Store at 12th and Main. We visited KC every other year, and always had one meal at King Joy Lo. I always ordered egg foo young. The only other place where we ate Chinese during my childhood was a block south of the Plaza in downtown Santa Fe. Most people thought we were crazy to eat Chinese in Santa Fe - but we always went there.

While traveling on vacation, my mother was always looking for an A&W. When she found one, we all had root beers in frosted mugs. It didn't matter the time of day. This was a benefit of traveling before cars were air conditioned. We also enjoyed watching for McDonald's - even though we seldom ate at one - to see how high the number served at reached. If memory serves me correctly, the first signs we say showed less than 100,000.

Della's Spanish Dining Room in Farmington, New Mexico was an experience. Della and her husband operated a small grocery out of a room on the front of their home. Della started serving a few meals in that room. Eventually she took over the living room, then closed the grocery so that entire room could be used, then added her own dining room, and finally another room on the west of the dining room. Then she moved her family out completely. Her beef tacos were what I always ordered, but they were so spicy I could barely stand them. Everything else on the menu was hotter yet. The real reason I loved going to Della's was to eat her sopapillas. A basket was brought to the table along with a honey dispenser. She was constantly replenishing our supply - and they were always fresh. Frequently, they were so fresh (and hot) that we could barely hold them. As soon as they were cool enough to bite a corner off, we would pour honey into the sopapilla. We ate sopapillas in the various restaurants of Albuquerque's Old Town, but they were never as good as Della's.

The Blue Spruce Cafe in Farmington was THE place to eat in 1951. A town of less than 5,000 didn't have very many choices. The Sullivans operated this cafe for twenty or thirty years. Their cinnamon rolls were so large that all four corners were sticking over the edge of the saucer used to serve them. They were made fresh each morning, and in the early 1950s cost ten cents each. That was my breakfast many mornings.

In 1958, we visited New Orleans, and we dined at Antoine's one evening. My father asked the waiter to bring us four different dinners - one beef, one pork, one chicken and one seafood. We would decide who got what when they arrived. While waiting Dad informed us that this was one of the finest restaurants in New Orleans, and that the waiter would bring us the best dish they had in each category. I had never had crab cakes until that evening, and they were fantastic. They were so good that I ordered them again later on in Key West - and was I ever disappointed. The difference in two restaurants preparation of what by name was the same dish was very graphically illustrated to me on that trip. Maybe that is why I am on this board this evening.

At the end of the block where my grandmother lived in Oklahoma City, at 15th and May Ave. was a Chicken In The Rough restaurant which had the best fried chicken. I don't remember what else they served, but I always looked forward to their chicken.

Another chain that I remember from the 1950s was Toddle House. Whenever we found one on a trip, that was where we would have breakfast. I don't remember whether it was particularly good or not, but my mother would always insist that we eat there - except the one in Albuquerque - which she felt was not up to Toddle House standards. We ate there twice and never went back.

That's enough rambling for now. Does anyone else remember any of these places?

[robyn]

This entire thread is fascinating; it highlights for me that there probably is no "typical" experience, and I hesitate to support robyn in saying that her *husband's experiences aren't atypical for most people his age in the US'*. 

I suspect there are experiences that are typical for people in certain places or types of places at certain times. There are a lot of people here from NYC - and perhaps other large cities - and I don't think their experiences are typical of people who grew up in newer suburban or rural areas (and it was hard to distinguish between them then - when my husband grew up in Bergen County in the 40's/50's - it was mostly farms - it didn't look anything like it does today - it didn't even resemble what it looks like today when I first met him in the early 70's).

My experiences growing up in southern New Jersey were very similar to my husband's. Although I did go out with my family once in a while. Mostly to one restaurant - it was one of the few restaurants around then.

Also - you have to remember that the culture of the housewife in these new suburban developments in the 50's was probably a lot different than the culture of a woman living in NYC. We have a local history museum here in north Florida - and the largest 50's exhibit shows a "new" 50's suburban kitchen - the wife was expected to have dinner on the table when her husband got home from work. Robyn

[bigbear]

I'm surprised that carhops haven't been mentioned.

[wesza]

I've been enjoying all the posts.

I owned a home in "Franklyn Lake" in Bergen County during the 1960's and it sure wasn't very rustic. The Paramus Mall and several others were booming and the only rural feel was from my neighbors who raised Game Cocks and welcomed my son to pick eggs every morning and provided us with dressed free run poultry in exchange for the early morning wake up. We had a pond across the street and another to our side and enjoyed sheep grazing next to the pond. This still continues due to the 2 Acre Zoning. My Game Cock neighbors sold their lot for $1,000,000.00 and retired.

Car hops are still hopping around in "Seattle" at the Burgermaster Drive In" Restaurants and it's nice to was nostalgic every once in a while dining there.

"Stonehenge" was where my friend and possibly one of the greatest Chef's I've ever known intended to retire, but wound up working and truly enjoying his results. My first time dining there was together with "James Beard" who had introduced me to "Albert Stockli" prior to the opening of the "Four Seasons", where he went all out to start the trends all so popular today.

Every time that I visited there there would be other Chefs or Restaurateurs Eating there from "Toot's Shor", "Andre Soltner"," Henri Soule" and others. Everything prepared was special.

I did work at Jan Mitchell's "Luchows", ate regularly at "Maneros" in Long Beach, LI [where they had a butcher shop].

Wonder why UWS'ers haven't mentioned the "Tip Top" or "Seinfeld's Dairy" since they were fixtures in the neighborhood. "Michael's" , "Joe's" or "Pete's" from Brooklyn. "Pizza Burger Pete's" Times Square amazing Pizza by the Slice place that introduced placing a Whole Italian Sausage on top of a Slice of Pizza Baked together. He averaged 1500+ slices daily.

Seems like the more time I spend day dreaming the more memories make me think about what we've lost, especially all the places in the Catskills.

Irwin

[robyn]

I've been enjoying all the posts.

I owned a home in "Franklyn Lake" in Bergen County during the 1960's and it sure wasn't very rustic.

My husband grew up in Montvale in the mid/late 50's - before then he lived in Fly Creek - near Cooperstown NY - and - before then - in Snyder NY (near Buffalo). I think there was a big difference between the 40's/50's and 60's. I wouldn't call northern Bergen County rustic - it just wasn't really developed.

My father was a builder. I was brought up in Wantaugh LI in the late 40's - 50's. We moved to Cherry Hill New Jersey (Camden County - near Philadelphia) in about 1959 before it was Cherry Hill New Jersey. It was mostly farms then. I don't recall when the Cherry Hill Mall opened - my guess would be early 60's. But there wasn't much of a restaurant scene. We went to the Woodbine Inn for the occasional family dinner - and the Latin Casino for Sweet 16's. By the end of the 60's - a fair amount of south Jersey had changed. I was long gone by then - having left for college in 1964. My husband and I returned to the areas we grew up in perhaps once or twice in the 70's. We frankly didn't recognize them. I'm sure that anyone who left Miami (where we spent most of our adult lives) in 1960 would feel the same way if he/she returned 20 years later. Robyn

[balmagowry]

My father was a builder.  I was brought up in Wantaugh LI in the late 40's - 50's.

Wantagh! Wantagh has changed so much since 1960, when I first knew it (as the nearest available shopping of any kind for us barrier beach denizens, which it still is) that I wouldn't recognize it at all if it weren't for the LIRR station. To be fair, not all the changes are for the worse; at least the incomparable Wantagh 5 & 10 still exists and is as infallible as ever; and some quite serious restaurants have come - and, alas, gone - in the past 15-20 years. This includes one of the four or five best and most understatedly sophisticated (food, decor, and service) Chinese restaurants I ever knew.

Now I think of it, that might be another restaurant phenomenon to consider. Its applicability to this particular discussion is diluted by prevailing economic factors, but I still think high turnover is worth studying and trying to understand. I'm thinking about both NYC and the kind of suburban outpost in which I currently live most of the time. Seems like, in the course of the above-mentioned 15-20 years or so, we've been seeing a lot of this. In one camp, the closing of places that have been in the same spot forever and that don't seem to have noticeably lost business or popularity; in the other, the shiny new place that seems like such a fabulous success and then suddenly vanishes without a trace, which is another thing I don't remember noticing much 30-40 years ago. (Though that reminds me of a story... nah, it isn't mine, so I'll check it at the source before I go into it.) And that second camp, the short-lived one, seems to be about evenly divided between the daring-nouvelle-fusion-etc. type and the safe-reliable-cozy type., between the faux-swanky (or faux-grubby) and the truly elegant. So what gives? Aside from real estate being more expensive and investments riskier and audience attention spans shorter - not that I'm dismissing any of those as legitimate reasons - is there some tangible gastronomic explanation behind all this tremendous upheaval?