[PDX] Best Mexican-American food...

[ExtraMSG]

I asked this question on Chowhound and only got one response. So, what's the best Mexican-American place in the Portland area? My two favorites are Esparza's, of course, and Lindo Mexico in Vancouver (2 locations). I've tried several other places in Portland, but nothing that I thought was any better than Chevy's or Who Song and Larry's. Anything better out there? Not looking for taquerias, burrito places, or authentic Mexican (ie, La Calaca Comelona, Taqueria Nueve, or Cafe Azul) in this case. Just the standard stuff we've grown up with.

btw, I have a second question, if you're so inclined: What's your impression of Mexican-American food? Is it a place to get cheap food and beer with big portions and margaritas? Or is it a quality cuisine that doesn't get its due?

[chefrodrigo]

I've been in Portland 3 years and haven't found good TexMex yet. I've been to Esparza's and I'm not too impressed. I had heard they smoke there own meat there so I tried the cheese/onion enchiladas with a slice of smoked brisket. The enchiladas were ok, though the sauce was a little weak, but the brisket tasted boiled and I didn't notice any smoke. Good guacamole and lousy margaritas.

Portland does have some good taquerias but I've given up on TexMex.

As for the second question.

I wouldn't call it a place for cheap food and big portions. I think any type of food requires a competent cook. Even a sandwich requires some effort.

I don't think of Mexican American food as some undiscovered gem that deserves great respect though.

just my 2cents

Rodney

[Raynickben]

I lived in Texas for 12 years so I know my tex-mex. I cannot find good tex-mex in Portland....including Esparzas! I was really disappointed with that place. I have had a couple of good dinners at Two Brothers in Lake Oswego (State Street). My husband had a not-so-good dinner but he is very hard to please. They have giant margaritas there too. And the two brothers are super nice. Give it a try...it can't hurt!

[ExtraMSG]

I wouldn't call Esparza's "real" or "authentic" Tex-Mex. I've never been to a Tex-Mex place like it. It's really a fusion of Tex-Mex and bbq. I do like it however. The pork nachos are great. If you haven't tried at least them, you should. They also have very good chips and salsa. I like that they have more Texas style beans, too. They even have decent desserts. Every item I've had with smoked meat, the meat has tasted smoky. The bigger problem is that the meat can often be dry, in my experience. But I think overall Esparza's is good and in some ways more interesting than what you find in Texas. The prices are also good and the portions fair. The interior has character, too.

I doubt there's much good Tex-Mex in Portland. But that doesn't mean there isn't much good Mexican-American food. I think there's a distinction between the two that must be made. Although. more and more the fusion cuisines of California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas are fusing themselves. eg, enchilada sauce in Texas, in my experience, has a much stronger ancho flavor than what I grew up with in California and Oregon. Thus, enchilada sauces here might seem weak to someone who's used to that strong dried chile flavor. Whereas to someone from Oregon or California, Texas enchiladas might seem way too strong. Personally, I like both styles. My wife can't handle the Texas style. Something to think about.

I've seen Two Brothers when driving by. They also advertise bbq, don't they? Much more of a Texas focus, probably. I'll make a point of trying them next time I'm that way (though that isn't too often).

Edited October 1, 2003 by ExtraMSG (log)

[Tremors]

I really like Adobe Rose in the Westmoreland neighborhood. If they have the crab enchilada's as a daily special - it is really really good - no frills just a ton of crabmeat and some really good enchilada sauce. I have found their red enchilada sauce to be the closest to the stuff I've had in New Mexico and to when I make it myself at home. Esparza's red sauce doesn't taste this good.

They have a small but good menu - and my friends from NM say it is the best New Mexican style food in PDX. Their hours are a little funky (I think closed both Monday and Tuesday and lunch possibly only on the weekends) and really only a couple of people run the whole show so if they decide to go on vacation - the place is closed.

I ate only once at Two Brothers so this is a very limited judgement but I found the service to be really over solicitous and a little too much. When I ordered a regular margarita - the waiter kept trying to get me into the large (very large) but he did it in a really annoying way - I finally had to insist that I wanted just a regular. He kept up this sort of jokey manner all night - it made ordering laborious and not very fun. I am really easy on waiters cause I really respect the profession (ex-waitress myself) - and I'm not sure if he was flirting with us (table of 4 women) or just trying to be funny or what but with all the choice in Portland and the fact that the food was not overwhelming - well.... but ExtraMSG I'll be interested to see what you think of the place.

[Raynickben]

Hey Tremors-

I can see how the owners at Two Brothers might put someone off...they are very exurberant. And my first time there I was offered the LARGE margarita and I told the guy "no, I'm driving" and that was that. The next time I did order the LARGE margarita and couldn't function the rest of the day I don't find that kind of "upselling" a problem but maybe it got out of hand when you were there.

I think I must order well at Two Brothers because I enjoyed the food....but others have not. Thank God for choices!

Oh, one more thing: NEVER, EVER, EVER go to Ixtapa in West Linn (off of 205). Unbelievably bad.

[ExtraMSG]

Other warnings: in downtown Vancouver, Casa Grande and El Presidente are probably the two worst places I've ever been. And Casa Grande advertises on the Food Network through Comcast, so it's something to be wary of.

Any comments on these recommended spots...

Willamette Week: El Palmero

Zagat and most other guides: Chez Jose

btw, oregonlive.com is the most useless piece of doodie. Unless you know exactly what restaurant you're looking for, it's almost impossible to find a review. You can search, but it just gives you a million listings without reviews. Ever look at something like guidelive.com for Dallas. Much, much better. And they score places. That's one thing I wish they'd do somewhere here. No one wants to rate something so you have some idea of how the reviewer thinks it compares to other places.

[Tremors]

Chez Jose is very popular with families - especially the NE Broadway location - they have a "kids eat free" policy from 5 -7 pm. I love the place for the atmosphere in the bar and the really great service. They are friendly and very attentive - and they have a Happy Hour bar menu from 4 - 6 and 9 - closing (about 6-7 items for $1.95), we like to go after a movie and get in on the after 9pm cheap stuff.

Their food isn't Mexican American in the Chevy's mold - they have a slightly more interesting menu - including a popular lime chicken enchilada, they include chipotle in a few dishes and their camarones are good. I like their black bean soup (which is on the bar menu) - their quesadilla's are nothing to write home about but are filling in a pinch.

I haven't been to the newly reopened Burlingame location (rebuilt after the infamous Burlingame Grocery fire) - and I don't go to their outlet on Hawthorne (Chez Grill?) very often at all - a little out of my geographical arena.

ExtraMSG - another place that is popular but I've only been once is La Cruda on 26th and SE Clinton. People love the salsa bar - and the food is cheap - I had a quick lunch there once and it was just fine for lunch - not sure it is in your Mexican-American genre tho. I know you don't drink but apparently their margarita's are really great. It's on one of my bike routes home and I like to ride by in the summer when the tables are outside and everyone is enjoying the PDX summer (and their margaritas!).

[Tremors]

Raynickben, thanks for your thoughts on Two Brothers - have you ever tried their BBQ? I'm always hunting for good BBQ and would definitely go back if it is good. What do you order there?

ExtraMSG - El Palmero - is that the place south of Tacoma on SE 17th? If it is - I've heard great things about it but I think it is El Salvadoran food not Mexican American. But I have friends who live in that hood and they love it so I'm sure it is worth a trip - if not for your current research project but perhaps to start another!

[trillium]

Ok, this discussion has made me determined to try two restaurants mentioned that are in my 'hood, Adobe Rose (which is in "downtown" Sellwood btw, not Westmoreland...splitting straws I know) and El Palmero.

I've been tempted by El Palmero, but every time we walk by and peek in the window it is full of, er, antique buying yuppies (ok, we're bigots). I tend to have a bias that antique buying yuppies can't be trusted to have good taste in food. It may have something to do with seeing them hauling away overpriced pieces of artificially aged junk in their SUVs every weekend. Also, and this may be illogical, if it's El Salvadorean food, then I like to see El Salvadoreans actually eating there.

Adobe Rose has been dismissed by us because the corner it is located on is just too precious...but if you say it's good I'll try it. If I end up trapped in some vortex created by godawful wedding dress shops and kid's clothing stores with shirts that cost more than anything I own it's all your fault.

regards,

trillium

[ExtraMSG]

I don't know what the Salvadorean place on Tacoma is. Salvadorean would be interesting, though. Maybe some good papusas in Portland. Trilliam, are there enough Salvadoreans in Portland to notice if they were going anyway? Report back soon.

From WW:

EL PALMERO

cuisine: South of the Border

part of town: SW Downtown

address: 320 SW Alder St., 227-3376.

hours: 11 am-6 pm Monday, 11 am-8 pm Tuesday-Thursday, 11 am-10 pm Friday-Saturday.

EP plays the hits of Yanqui-friendly Mexican meal time (tacos, burritos, fajitas, ¡olé!). But it's worth the effort to try something special, such as the specials board's lomo saltado ($8.25): A mountain of rice served with dime-thin flank steak, vibrant tomatoes, sweet onions and hearty pommes frites whose savory gravy is alive with herbs. Zach Dundas

[ExtraMSG]

ExtraMSG - another place that is popular but I've only been once is La Cruda on 26th and SE Clinton. People love the salsa bar - and the food is cheap - I had a quick lunch there once and it was just fine for lunch - not sure it is in your Mexican-American genre tho

I can't remember if I've been there or not. Even if it's more of a taqueria, I should try it for my taco quest. I actually prefer taqueria food and authentic antojitos, and even homestyle regional Mexican, to Mexican-American. But I'm interested to know where the good places in Portland are and see how good they are.

A friend of mine from Texas and I have been arguing about Mexican food lately. Basically, I say that Diana Kennedy and the like are right, to some degree, to look down on Mexican-American food because the majority of restaurants that serve it have earned their reputation, that they've made big margaritas and big portions that are cheap more important than the food quality. That they've essentially made the cuisine about a family-friendly place to get a buzz. Much like the pitcher of beer does for many pizza parlors. He says it's not that way in Texas, and he may be right. I just say that it seems to be that way in most the US where I've travelled, Mexican being one of the main types of restaurants me and my family always went to growing up, especially when visiting family (the other being pizza, of course). Not much evidence to support my theory, but it's just based on my experience.

[Tremors]

Trillium

I hate to split hairs as well but I'm a geographer by trade so I had to comment. The busy corner of Bybee and Milwaukie is considered Westmoreland. Sellwood is the 13th and Tacoma area. They actually abut each other - Sellwood ends when 13th makes the corner and becomes SE Bybee.

Cheers

[trillium]

Hairs, straws, whatever. Thanks for the geography and history lesson. I'm too much of an old Usenet fogey to go back and fix my mistake, but consider myself corrected!

And Nick,

I don't know what the Salvadorean place on Tacoma is. Salvadorean would be interesting, though. Maybe some good papusas in Portland. Trilliam, are there enough Salvadoreans in Portland to notice if they were going anyway? Report back soon.

That's my whole point about the restaurant. If there aren't enough to notice any going then I'm thinking it's not going to be that great. Norte Americanos aren't exactly a market driving force when it comes to getting the good stuff. Last time I checked the menu there were no pupusas, which was another off-putting thing. Of course, pupusas aren't exactly sit down at a table type of deal, all the ones I've had have been in a street food context. Although...the last one I had, I had to eat sitting on the curb because I couldn't stand up very well. Good times...

regards,

trillium

[ExtraMSG]

That's my whole point about the restaurant. If there aren't enough to notice any going then I'm thinking it's not going to be that great. Norte Americanos aren't exactly a market driving force when it comes to getting the good stuff.

I try to reserve judgment. I think that good food is good food and that while it may not be as authentic maybe if they have to compete for American dollars (like your complaints about Thai here, maybe), it can still be good. Look at Cafe Azul. Not a single Mexican probably ever goes in that place on an average day, yet it's great. Probably better than what you'll get in 99% of Mexican restaurants in Mexico (though about 5 times more expensive).

btw, saw Diana Kennedy today at Powell's for Cooks. Sounded like she doesn't really eat out in Mexico. Eats home cooking. Yeah, well what are the rest of to do?

[Raynickben]

Raynickben, thanks for your thoughts on Two Brothers - have you ever tried their BBQ?  I'm always hunting for good BBQ and would definitely go back if it is good.  What do you order there?

Tremors: I did not try the BBQ. I am not really a fan of BBQ except for maybe once a year (wierd) and I tend to avoid ordering items that don't match what the restaurant is. Yeah, I know they have a huge BBQ sign on the window but how can any kitchen do all the Mexican and all the BBQ well? It's like when you see a pasta dish at a steakhouse. It doesn't work for me. In places that have huge menus as Two Brothers does I order items that have similar or same ingredients as other items because it is most likely fresher ingredients. I wouldn't order goat if only one item has goat in it. How long has that goat been there?

Sorry I'm rambling!!!

No, I did not try the BBQ.

[ExtraMSG]

Apparently that Salvadoran place you guys were thinking of is Palenque not Palmero (which is downtown):

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=30179