secret spaghetti sauce recipe

[mama24]

I have been searching for a spaghetti sauce recipe for 30 years!

Maybe someone knows what i will describe. : when i was a teen I babysat for an Italian lady. she would make this This thick red tomato sauce and there was always a layer of oil floating on the top. there were no "chunks" of tomato or anything else in it. She would make meatballs separately and at some point they would end up in the sauce. She would never give me the recipe and I never saw her make it from start to finish.. I do remember "tons" of cans of tomato paste sitting around and once she told me she NEVER used tomatoes(in chunks)- She made it one FOR me to serve to my boyfriend at the time but NEVER would she reveal how to make it. --that was 30 years ago, in another state. I have searched and bought many italian cookbooks and sampled lots of restaurants-- and have "experimented" many times --can't quite make it ...It was the very best I have ever eaten and haven't known anyone to make it since....any thoughts on this? I am obsessed with this I know!! Thanks--Paula

[wesza]

Do you know where in Italy she emigrated from? Sauce seems similar to a Old style Sicilian or Calabrese Base. The oil cover may have come from "Beef" or "Pork", Shortribs used to give the sauce character. This Red Sauce is sometimes used for simple pasta dishes, but mostly as a base for other sauces. Certainly for simmering Meatballs, after browning or as a base for Bolongnase or other sauces. Irwin

[APPS411]

Sounds to me like a traditional long slow cooked Sunday dinner tomato sauce. The oil layer you see is what come out of the meatballs, country ribs or sausage. Was the color slightly on the dark side?

My grandmother and mother make it all the time. They usually start it at about 1pm on sunday afternoon and don't serve it till roughly 5pm. It just sits, partially covered and simmers away.

They start off with a good amount of chopped onions and olive oil, sautee them up with a very small amount of garlic and maybee a little bit of dried oregano, S & P. When the onions begin to carmelize they add the cans of tomatoes. They use a mixture of sauce and chopped. But if you don't like chunks, just go w/ the sauce or strained cans.

Halfway through the cooking they would add some meatballs, country pork ribs or short ribs, ham hocks, and sausage, all previously browned.

After about 3 to 4 hrs over a slow simmer you can notice a few phase seperations. The first layer is the oil from the meats. The second layer is a very thin and watery tomato sauce. And the third is the more dense tomato chuncks w/ the meat.

Is that what your talking about?

You don't have to be too detailed w/ the spices due to the fact that it will cook for so long.

[slkinsey]

This doesn't sound like Italian cooking... it sounds like old-fashioned Italian-American cooking, which can be great. What you describe is a fairly typical "Sunday Gravy."

There's no big secret to what you describe. Usually it starts with some onions and garlic softened in lots of oil. Some families would add green pepper to this. Some families would then brown off some beef or pork stew meat and Italian-style pork sausage. Some families might use granulated garlic and/or onion.

Once the vegetables are softened and the meat is browned, to all of this is added a copious quantity of tomato paste and enough water and/or red wine to give a relatively thin consistency. Again, some families would include some crushed tomato or whole peeled tomato along with the tomato paste. Sounds like this was not the case with the version you were eating.

Plenty of dry herbs are added to the sauce, with the specific herbs depending on the family. Dried oregano, thyme and basil seem to be the most common.

At this point, the sauce is simmered slowly on the stove for a long time until it becomes thicker and most of the sugars have caramelized. Periodic additions of water and/or red wine to maintain the desired consistency are routine, as the sauce simmers for up to 24 hours. The result is a brick red-brown sauce with the fat beginning to separate and float to the top. In my opinion, and it may be that I am most familiar with Mama Graziano's method (she's the mother of my 100% Sicilian-American best friend), this kind of sauce only attains the best flavor when the color begins to turn brownish instead of a uniform red. This seems to take 18 - 24 hours of low simmering. As times has progressed and there aren't as many Italian-American grandmothers with all day on their hands to tend a simmering sauce, however, the simmering times have shortened and 4-5 hours is considered a long time. These can be great sauces, but I miss the earthy quality of an all-day sauce. I'll usually stick to a traditional Italian sauce rather than Italian-American Sunday Gravy if I don't have all day (a crock pot is good for this, BTW).

Anyway... as dinnertime approaches, meatballs and other meat items such as braciole are prepared, browned (or not) and added to the sauce for a brief simmering. These are usually removed from the sauce and served separately along with the sausages and stew meat (which I find have given up most of their flavor to the sauce and tend to taste rather insipid).

[FoodZealot]

In addition to the fat from meats as mentioned, it could also be from another technique (shown recently in a Food TV profile of Patsy's in NY). I believe it's midway through the cooking of the sauce, minced garlic fried in olive oil is added, as well as adding a good shot of olive oil near the end for the raw olive oil flavor.

~Tad

[slkinsey]

Tad,

The only thing that makes me doubt that is the case is that we're talking about something from 30+ years ago... back when it was worth your life to find extra virgin olive oil in the States and even fresh garlic was hard to find in many areas.

[Craig Camp]

This sounds very Sicilian. In Sicilia there are many sauces based on estratto which is a super reduced sauce made from semi-sun dried tomatoes. In Sicilia you can buy it in cans in the store. However as far as I know it is not commercially available outside of southern Italy -- you certainly can't find it in Lombardia. However many expatriates made a reasonable facsimile by cooking down tomato paste in a substantial amount of olive oil. This concentrated tomato sauce made by this method certainly ends up with a thick layer of olive oil that sits on the top.

It sounds like your recipe could be one of these. It is certainly common to simmer polpette in the sauce after you have cooked them.

You can find recipes for this sauce in La Cucina Siciliana di Gangivecchio by Wanda and Giavanna Tornabee.

[APPS411]

The traditional recipe that I explained is native to Sicily.

[wesza]

Tad,

The only thing that makes me doubt that is the case is that we're talking about something from 30+ years ago...  back when it was worth your life to find extra virgin olive oil in the States and even fresh garlic was hard to find in many areas.

While growing up in NYC I lived in several Italian neighborhoods, plus visited friends in Teaneck, NJ and Newark, NJ and Buffalo, NY and remember that in all these places there were route men, who came weekly to your home who provided regular olive oil for cooking, and virgin olive oil for salads, etc. There was always Garlic, leaf parsley and herbs, plus imported cheese, tomatos, olives and pasta available at regular ethinic grocery stores. The heavy thick red sauce base, without solids, such as onions or peppers, tomato solids such as chunks or chopped were not used until this was being finished into a specific recipe. This sauce was made using Tomato Paste, High Specific Gravity[1.06 or 1.07] imported tomato puree, olive oil, and a essence of meat base reduced from either short ribs or pork ribs, simmered in wine or broth. The sweetness came from the carmelization that generally occurs over long time simmering at low heat. I remember being served this with the other kids with pasta, since it was simple and smooth sauce that we kids prefered. Irwin

[mama24]

Thank you all so much for your input!! I have heard of all these ways of making this sauce and last week tried the all day cooking with pork and beef and sausage,added red wine,and chicken broth during the cooking. I removed the meat after 5 hours and it looked great but had little taste(the three labs got it-they loved it !) made the meat balls as in the cook book by david ruggerio. It is very close but not quite.. The woman i babysat for was young at the time-she had gotten this recipe from her mother in law(whose name was mosso)....I just wanted to see if there was some "secret" I didn't know about . Some odd ingredient to give it that special flavor... I will keep trying to inprove it and will use any tips anyone can offer.. I am now going to tackle 'cannoli"s" (i bought some forms today)I have only tasted them once in my life . My husband LOVES italian food and has a bad sweet tooth.I am not italian , I grew up eating sauerkraut in pennsylvania then married a southerner and had to learn to cook "southern" I still don't like the way they cook and miss the hearty northern dishes......thanks for all your help... She never would give me her recipe-I even offered to babysit for free !! All i have ever made is what i have found in books.and keep thinking there is some unknown ingredient missing....and there aren't very many Italians in the deep south...

Edited September 12, 2003 by mama24 (log)

[mama24]

oh--i 'm mostly german----------I have lived in the south for 25 years--i miss the north- I love New York -----My thoughts and prayers have been with you all day NewYork ....the melting pot of our nation..God Bless

[Suzanne F]

Ah, cannoli! Just remember, mama24: make the shells, make the filling (basically just sweetened ricotta, chopped candied fruit, and chopped chocolate) BUT DON'T FILL THE SHELLS UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE YOU SERVE THEM!!

and Welcome Sounds like you might have some very interesting experience with cooking and eating!

[mama24]

Thanks for the Cannoli advice....Waiting for the forms to arrive.. I know my husband and four kids will love them---We were in NYC in June and always See them at the bakeries--I have never tackled them--now that the kids are in College I have all this time !!

[Jaymes]

I'd track her down. 30 years is a long time. You can tell her that you've never gotten that sauce out of your mind, and that if she will please give it to you, you swear on everything that's holy that you will never give it to a single other living human.

By now, it could be that she's loosened the reins a little. And since you don't live in the same state anymore, she wouldn't have to worry that her "special sauce" recipe would be all over the neighborhood in a matter of hours.

As far as a "smooth" sauce goes -- remember that most anything (like chunks of tomatoes, peppers, onions, etc.) can be processed, blended; or most likely, strained, with whatever doesn't go through being ground up in a food mill.

My personal favorite tomato sauce recipe does just that. It calls for salt pork, carrots, celery, and a bunch of other stuff.

But after it's simmered and strained, and then run through a food mill, it's impossible to pick out any particular ingredients.

[hsm]

..I just wanted to see if there was some "secret" I didn't know Some odd ingredient to give it that special flavor... I will keep trying to inprove it  and will use any tips anyone can offer..

I'm not saying this is it, but the 4+ hour recipe I got almost 25 years ago from my friend's Sicilian grandma (olive oil, garlic, 3 kinds of canned tomato product - sauce, puree and paste, wine, sugar, browned ribs and meatballs) included a couple of bay leaves.

Onion, oregano and basil were reserved for the meatballs.

Different villages - different families - different cooks. It's all good.

Good luck recovering those memories.

[sailboat]

Hi...I don't know if you still want a spagg sauce recipe...I can give you three different ones...from the three different regains of Italy.....all are for red sauce and from first born American-Italians...

[tryska]

This doesn't sound like Italian cooking... it sounds like old-fashioned Italian-American cooking, which can be great. What you describe is a fairly typical "Sunday Gravy."

There's no big secret to what you describe. Usually it starts with some onions and garlic softened in lots of oil. Some families would add green pepper to this. Some families would then brown off some beef or pork stew meat and Italian-style pork sausage. Some families might use granulated garlic and/or onion.

Once the vegetables are softened and the meat is browned, to all of this is added a copious quantity of tomato paste and enough water and/or red wine to give a relatively thin consistency. Again, some families would include some crushed tomato or whole peeled tomato along with the tomato paste. Sounds like this was not the case with the version you were eating.

Plenty of dry herbs are added to the sauce, with the specific herbs depending on the family. Dried oregano, thyme and basil seem to be the most common.

At this point, the sauce is simmered slowly on the stove for a long time until it becomes thicker and most of the sugars have caramelized. Periodic additions of water and/or red wine to maintain the desired consistency are routine, as the sauce simmers for up to 24 hours. The result is a brick red-brown sauce with the fat beginning to separate and float to the top. In my opinion, and it may be that I am most familiar with Mama Graziano's method (she's the mother of my 100% Sicilian-American best friend), this kind of sauce only attains the best flavor when the color begins to turn brownish instead of a uniform red. This seems to take 18 - 24 hours of low simmering. As times has progressed and there aren't as many Italian-American grandmothers with all day on their hands to tend a simmering sauce, however, the simmering times have shortened and 4-5 hours is considered a long time. These can be great sauces, but I miss the earthy quality of an all-day sauce. I'll usually stick to a traditional Italian sauce rather than Italian-American Sunday Gravy if I don't have all day (a crock pot is good for this, BTW).

Anyway... as dinnertime approaches, meatballs and other meat items such as braciole are prepared, browned (or not) and added to the sauce for a brief simmering. These are usually removed from the sauce and served separately along with the sausages and stew meat (which I find have given up most of their flavor to the sauce and tend to taste rather insipid).

this post made me want to attempt sauce from scratch this weekend in my crockpot.

and could you give me some measurment guidelines for the ingredients? (more specifically the tomato products - the spicing i can do by smell)

thanks!

[johnjohn]

Quick question regarding the layer of oil that separates from the sauce.

Do you skim this off and discard it like you would for a stock - or is it an integral part of the sauce that is stirred back in before it is served.

Thanks

johnjohn.

[slkinsey]

This doesn't sound like Italian cooking... it sounds like old-fashioned Italian-American cooking, which can be great.  What you describe is a fairly typical "Sunday Gravy."

(snip)

this post made me want to attempt sauce from scratch this weekend in my crockpot.

and could you give me some measurment guidelines for the ingredients? (more specifically the tomato products - the spicing i can do by smell)

It depends on the size of your Crock Pot. I would suggest something like this as a general outline:

1 large Spanish onion, medium dice

10 cloves garlic, roughly chopped

1 pound beef (or pork) stew meat

1 pound Italian-style mild fennel sausage

5 cans tomato paste

2 large cans whole tomato, lightly crushed

EVOO

Plenty of dry thyme, oregano and basil

1. Soften vegetables in copious amounts of evoo and place in crock pot.

2. Brown all meats and place in crock pot

3. Add tomato products and dried herbs to crock pot and add water to thin it out (around 3 quarts)

4. Fire up the crock pot on low and cook at least 12 hours, preferably 24. You will know it has cooked long enough when the sugars caramelize, the sauce takes on a brick red-brown color and the fat has begun to separate into a thick layer on the top.

5. An hour or so before you intend to eat, make a batch of your favorite Italian-American meatball recipe (pork, veal, beef, bread crumbs, softened garlic, softened onion, parsley and parmigiano go in mine) and perhaps a braciole or two. Brown these meats and simmer together with the sauce extra low for the last 45 minutes or so (you may have to do this in a larger vessel on the stove).

6. For service, remove all meats from the sauce and serve separately (some small pieces of the original sausage and stew meat will remain floating in the sauce.)

Depending on your tastes and traditions, you can add celery or green peppers to the initial sauteed vegetables (I like celery but am not fond of the flavor green pepper gives a long cooked sauce), or perhaps some crushed red pepper. If you want an extra garlic-ey flavor, throw in a clove of finely minced garlic for the last 30 minutes.

Many Italian-American families would forego the garlic and onions entirely and use powdered/granulated garlic and onion, although I am sure this is less true today than it was >20 years ago. But, if it doesn't taste quite like grandma's, this would be the first modification I'd try.

[slkinsey]

Quick question regarding the layer of oil that separates from the sauce.

Do you skim this off and discard it like you would for a stock - or is it an integral part of the sauce that is stirred back in before it is served.

My opinion: no on one and yes on two.

Family traditions will differ, however.

[tryska]

thank you so much slkinsey! i can't wait to try this over the weekend - i've got a 3 quart, so i'll have to reduce the recipe somewhat - or use my roommates big one.