post blackout food concern

[nyfirepatrolchef]

My food was without refrigeration/freezer (due to the blackout) for 27 hours. The mainstay of the contents are: frozen veggies/fruit (spinach peas blueberries), frozen soy margarine, frozen turkey sausage and bacon (no preservatives) then in the fridge...eggs, fruit juices, soy milk, brined products (kosher pickles and tomatos), no preservatives bread.

What, if anything, is safe, and what should go out?

The fridge was closed all the time during the period, and I let it run two hours before opening it. I could tell the freezer was unfrozen...the bacon was cold to the touch but flexible, and the berries were soft but cold.

It sickens my to think of losing all that....but its cheaper than a trip to the ER for food poisoning.

[Fat Guy]

The NYC Health Commissioner said on the radio to get rid of all refrigerator contents after 4 hours. For the freezer, if the temperature got above 40 degrees, the recommendation was also to get rid of it. Whether this is a sensible recommendation, I can't say. I personally plan to throw out everything in the freezer not because I'm concerned about safety but, rather, because it will be unappetizing after thawing and refreezing. In the fridge, I'll get rid of everything except sealed jars of jam and the like. The issue with the fridge, as I understand it, is that the environment can become contaminated. So, if one thing in there starts to grow bacteria, it can get on all the other surfaces. In reality the risk of this happening is pretty low, but it seems an easily avoidable risk. I'm just going to use the opportunity to take everything out of the freezer and refrigerator, throw most of it out, clean and disinfect the compartments, clean off any jars I plan to keep, and do a big grocery shopping next week.

[elyse]

If things were still cool, I wouldn't throw anything out. But I live on the edge.

[beans]

The local county health department in Cleveland advised as follows:

A full freezer, if left closed, will remain safe from thawing for up to 2 days. If it was half full, they stated 1 day.

The refrigerator is another story. If the internal temperature rose to 40 degrees F -- be safe and toss out the dairy and meats. (anything in danger of quick spoilage)

I'll try to find a link.

(BTW, my fav uncle was the Chief of the Fire Department here.... You guys are the best!)

[Fat Guy]

FEMA says:

Keep the refrigerator and freezer doors closed. Open the refrigerator as little as possible. Every time you open the refrigerator door, cold air escapes. Refrigerated items should be safe as long as the power is off no more than about 4-6 hours. A full freezer should keep foods safe for about two days; a half-full freezer, about one-day. If foods still contain ice crystals and/or if the freezer is 40 F or less and has been at that temperature no longer than one to two days, food that was safe when it was originally frozen should still be safe. These foods can be refrozen or cooked and eaten. Discard any perishable food that has been stored at temperatures above 40 F for 2 or more hours, or any food that has an unusual odor, color or texture.

[elyse]

FG, with that kind of logic, people could never eat out of a cooler. I'm sure your food is fine.

[beans]

Oh, it was the Department of Agriculture....

Don't know if this helps.

Clickety Here for Associated Press story

[fifi]

Veggies and berries should be ok. The manner of spoilage would be mold and I doubt that it would have gotten warm enough in 27 hours to spoil. The quality will suffer, however, so I would cook it up. The bacon does have preservatives... salt. It should be ok.

Toss the sausage. Likewise any uncured meat products, dairy and eggs.

Anything in the fridge that is in brine (pickles etc.) is ok.

[TrishCT]

My food was without refrigeration/freezer (due to the blackout) for 27 hours.  The mainstay of the contents are: frozen veggies/fruit (spinach peas blueberries), frozen soy margarine, frozen turkey sausage and bacon (no preservatives)  then in the fridge...eggs, fruit juices, soy milk, brined products (kosher pickles and tomatos), no preservatives bread.

What, if anything, is safe, and what should go out?

The fridge was closed all the time during the period, and I let it run two hours before opening it.  I could tell the freezer was unfrozen...the bacon was cold to the touch but flexible, and the berries were soft but cold.

It sickens my to think of losing all that....but its cheaper than a trip to the ER for food poisoning.

Frozen veggies/fruit: Eat them now, do not refreeze them.

Soy margarine: Ok to eat now and probably ok to stay refrigerated if it was good to begin with and not ancient.

Frozen turkey, sausage, bacon: Honestly, I would toss it all just to be safe.

Eggs: Should be fine but use them soon. Refrigeration keeps eggs fresh longer than at room temp. Once eggs are at room temp they age faster.

Fruit juices: Probably ok, but if they were old to begin with they won't improve.

Soy Milk: I'd toss it

Brined products: Pickles are probably ok... Tomatoes-depends how they are stored and how old/close to spoiling they are to begin with.

Bread: If it's not moldy it should be fine.

Keep this in mind:

If there's any doubt...throw it out....

Better to be safe than sorry.

Glad you have your power back!

Trish

[elyse]

I'll take all the food you're goinmg to throw out.

[marie-louise]

From the USDA:

In the event of a power failure, frozen or refrigerated foods warmed to above refrigeration temperatures of 40 degrees for over two hours may not be safe to eat.

In emergency conditions, foods that should keep for a few days at room temperature (about 68 to 72 degrees) include:

Butter, margarine

Fresh fruits and vegetables

Dried fruits and coconut

Open jars of peanut butter, jelly, relish, taco sauce, barbecue sauce, mustard, ketchup and olives.

Hard and processed cheeses

Fruit juices

Fresh herbs and spices

Fruit pies

Discard anything that turns moldy or has an unusual odor or look.

Discard the following foods if they have been kept at above 40 degrees for over two hours:

Raw or cooked meat, poultry and seafood

Milk or cream, yogurt, soft cheese

Cooked pasta, pasta salads

Custard, chiffon or cheese pies

Fresh eggs, egg substitutes

Meat-topped pizza, lunchmeats

Casseroles, stews or soups

Refrigerator dough

Cream-filled pastries

Partially thawed frozen foods that still have ice crystals can be safely refrozen.

Most once-frozen foods that have thawed completely could be cooked and eaten immediately if they have not been above 40 degrees for more than two hours.

Items can be refrozen after cooking.

If the time above 40 degrees is more than two hours or unknown, the thawed foods should be discarded.

Foods in a freezer without power may stay frozen from one to three days, depending on conditions:

The door must remain closed.

The freezer must be mostly full. The less full the freezer, the shorter time foods will stay frozen.

The temperature outside the freezer must be moderate.

The freezer must be large and well insulated. Small freezers will keeps foods frozen for shorter periods of time.

Edited to add link:

USDA:

Edited August 16, 2003 by marie-louise (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

If the food in your freezer just started to thaw but was still cold. Switch it to your refrigerator and allow to thaw and cook soon. If it completely defrosted (but is still cold) cook immediately, then refrigerate if not eating immediately.

[JSD]

I'm all for better safe than sorry, but this doesn't pass the reality test:

In emergency conditions, foods that should keep for a few days at room temperature (about 68 to 72 degrees) include:

Dried fruits

Open jars of peanut butter

[jsolomon]

FG, with that kind of logic, people could never eat out of a cooler.  I'm sure your food is fine.

Elyse, I agree with you.

While my advice is not binding in any way, remember that even eggs, are kept above room temperature for several weeks while the chick is developing. 27 hours is not a tremendous time. If this were my refrigerator, I would keep everything and check it as I use it.

However, I would bake a batch or two of brioche or custard to get rid of the eggs sooner rather than later as they will be noticeably less fresh.

My experience of food and cooking is WAY out beyond the levels the USDA/FDA/etc call safe, and I have only had food poisoning once, from food not cooked by me at a sporting event from the concession stand. As you're cooking these things let the proper items you grew tell you if things are okay: your nose, fingers and eyes. If the bacon is slimy, instead of greasy, toss it. Bake something with the berries. Use your vegetables for stock or soup (or put them in your freezer bag for later making) in the next 3 days.

At times like this, my mantra is the mantra I gave my tutees when I was tutoring Army medics through their courses: humans are fundamentally hard to kill.

Disclaimer: these are what I would do and my guidelines and are in no way endorsed by anything but my good health.

P.S. Elyse, you are editing your posts right beneath my quotes! Ack!

[Fat Guy]

Remind me not to accept dinner invitations from any of you . . .

I'm the last person to say we need to strive for zero risk, or to take the ridiculous recommendations of government agencies seriously. But it's simply incorrect to say that food is safe just because it looks and smells okay. There are plenty of bacteria that can make you seriously ill (or kill you) that are completely odorless, colorless, and undetectable by any of the senses. If the smell test was the be all end all of food safety, we wouldn't need food safety.

To me, this isn't about how long eggs can last at room temperature. It's about the conditions in the fridge. A refrigerator with the temperature rising (and where I live it was in the mid-90s today) is a moist environment that is super-hospitable to bacterial growth. After 24+ hours of non-refrigeration, in the middle of summer -- and remember this is without any air-conditioning in the room outside the fridge so it's not the same as losing power on a cold stormy November night -- I plan to consider any exposed foodstuffs from that environment to carry a real risk of contamination and I plan to throw them out. I wouldn't take the two- or four-hour guidelines seriously, but a full 24-hour summer day? I'll clean it out and restock next week.

(Marie, I'm pretty sure the government sites don't mind reprints, but can you give a link so we can make sure?)

[Richard Kilgore]

From one who spent about four days moaning on the couch of a friend's upper eastside apartment with a little dose of food poisoning...if in doubt, throw it out.

Edited August 16, 2003 by Richard Kilgore (log)

[beans]

I trust and believe quite fervently that the meat in me freezer is still good. If the Department of Agriculture is stating it should be fine what is the rationale it is not? I'm going to sniff and inspect better than I would in fear of a moth infestation of my cashmere and believe in those guidelines. In rotten Cleveland most of my freezer stuff remained rock hard. I opened the door at least 3 times in fear and verification.

Sorry for attempting to contribute to a helping, safe positive attitude.

I mean, I *know* the food in my house. I'm gonna go for it, especially knowing these picture perfect conditions do not always present themselves upon a glorious weather weekend. Use common sense! Understand your conditions (very realistically) and your food too! I've looked to my thermometers frequently. I trust them too. I'll be happy to purchase fresh eggs, butter and milk....

Edited August 16, 2003 by beans (log)

[tanabutler]

A friend of mine in Nashville never ever refrigerates eggs, and eats them pretty much daily, and has never been sick.

Ditto here.

I have had food poisoning (where you're either on the pot or on the way to it), but it was from the kalua pork sandwiches in Kihei and not from my refrigerator.

I am with Beans and JSolomon about the food. I hear all the other rationale and reasoning but I basically think it's like death: if your number's up, your number's up.

Meanwhile, my fridge needs weeding out, itself.

[sandra]

In the UK eggs are sold at room temp, on shelves, never refrigerated, and most people I know keep them that way at home, and at school always kept in the pantry.

I put them in fridge out of habit and b/c they are more safe from me knocking them over.

[jsolomon]

Remind me not to accept dinner invitations from any of you . . . 

Consider the invitation extended However, if the power goes out at my house, you can expect a rain check

[marie-louise]

I'm all for better safe than sorry, but this doesn't pass the reality test:

In emergency conditions, foods that should keep for a few days at room temperature (about 68 to 72 degrees) include:

<sum> Dried fruits

<sum> Open jars of peanut butter

The dried fruit does sound goofy, doesn't it? However, most peanut butter does say refrigerate after opening on it.

When someone gave this to me, I just cut and pasted it into a Word document and printed a copy for my earthquake kit. Since of COURSE I am never going to need this list, I did not look at it too closely. I do not have refrigerator dough to worry about, either.

All in all I'd agree with Fat Guy and whoever else says err on the side of caution. We had a power outage last New Year's Eve at our beach house. I think the power was out for about a day before we left in disgust. I took a lot of the jars of food back home-things like mustards, jams, tapenade-so that I could use them quickly. While they didn't make me sick, they weren't as flavorful and started getting funky around the edges of the jars after a few weeks. It would make me very, very nervous to think about what might be multiplying in your food when your house was in the nineties instead of the fifities. And I really hate to waste food, I feel for you. It is hard to throw stuff in the trash.

[Fat Guy]

In the UK eggs are sold at room temp, on shelves, never refrigerated, and most people I know keep them that way at home, and at school always kept in the pantry.

Sure, and I've got no problem with eating eggs in such condition assuming they have been handled carefully. However, we're not talking about eggs stored on shelves with air circulating in a relatively cool (as in probably 70 degrees or thereabouts) environment. We're talking about a closed refrigerator compartment with rising temperature and humidity on a mid-nineties summer day in an un-airconditioned environment for more than 24 hours. Am I the only person whose refrigerator started to collect stinky water in the bottom, with some of it coming out the seal at the bottom of the door and pooling up on the floor? If you wanted to set up a lab to breed bacteria you couldn't do much better than those conditions. And as I understand it, a single item in the refrigerator -- such as a piece of raw meat -- that starts to develop bacterial contamination can, in a moist, warm environment, contaminate every other open item in the fridge pretty quickly. Eggs are particularly vulnerable because they're so porous and they tend not to be kept in sealed containers.

[weinoo]

Gotta tell you, I'm more worried about going out to eat and purchasing certain things in stores than I am about my own refrigerator...

I'll be waiting until Tuesday or so to restock dairy products, meat and fish, though as Bux said, if you've got a super competent butcher or fish market, it shouldn't (hopefully) be a problem...though ya' never know.

Also, I didn't have any water pooling problems - my freezer was still quite frozen, and my fridge interior kept things quite cool - we were on at 9:30 on Friday morn - what time did yours return, FG?

[Fat Guy]

I was out for 26 hours, got power back a little after 6pm. The temperature in my apartment was up into the mid-90s for part of the afternoon. But the water pooling occurred overnight -- I had that by around 8am.

[nyfirepatrolchef]

my fridge and floor was dry...and I second the motion about being leary about eating out or buying food for a couple of days.