Reinventing fast food

[Carlovski]

Maybe you should have had a big bender instead (For those not in the know, the big bender is a curled up sausage in a bun).

For info on this most British takes on the Burger Bar read This

[fresco]

A bent banger--sounds like a traffic accident or real impediment to procreation. But sausages, I think are something that the English understand. Definitely worth trying.

[Carlovski]

Unfortunately, like much of the food in dear old Blighty, when a sausage is good, it stands up with anything the French, Italians or Germans can offer. Unfortunately, about 90% of the sausages eaten are the worst kind of industrial pap, textureless, tasteless and containing god knows what.

There is a fairly succesful 'mini-chain' of Sausage and Mash cafes/restaurants in London. Not quite fast food though. The problem may be that to cook a Britich Banger properly take at least 20-30 minutes of careful, slow attentive frying. (Or Up to an hour if you listen to Matthew Fort)

[fresco]

One idea for an international fast food place based on English cooking--breakfast. At its best, the fryup is a marvel: banger, blood sausage, egg, chips, bacon, mushrooms. No cold toast, though, and fried bread is a bit of an acquired taste.

[Fat Guy]

The problem may be that to cook a Britich Banger properly take at least 20-30 minutes of careful, slow attentive frying. (Or Up to an hour if you listen to Matthew Fort)

Fast food needn't be cooked quickly. The "fast" primarily refers to the ability to order it and have it served immediately or nearly so. It can take 24 hours to cook so long as that's accounted for in the service strategy. Of course like the term "junk food," the term "fast food" collapses conceptually when scrutinized.

[Carlovski]

I'm surprised 'Laab 'R' us' hasn't been suggested yet!

One unifying thing with good fast food concepts is that the food is usually portable, and doesn't require cutlery - usually resolved by being in a bun.

Perhaps a winner would be south indian style breakfast dishes - dosa, idli etc.

The fillings could be pre-prepared, and the pancakes freshly prepared (Or at least a rolling supply kept up). I'd go for it anyway!

[fresco]

"One unifying thing with good fast food concepts is that the food is usually portable, and doesn't require cutlery - usually resolved by being in a bun."

You are right of course, unfortunately, for this precludes the wider adaptation of many splendid ideas--Danish open faced sandwiches, for instance, which require a knife and fork. They would not be the same at all tucked into a bun. I do wonder, though, why the pasty has not gained more of a following.

Edited July 29, 2003 by fresco (log)

[Carlovski]

There is actually a Pasty chain operating in the sout/south-west of England, called Presto. Presto

They aren't bad. They do the traditional pasty, plus some 'novelty' ones of various success. The spicy Chickpea one isn't bad. They also do some sweet ones as well (Chocolate, an Apple one as well I think)

[Andrew Fenton]

As far as I know, pasties in the US are only widespread in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. There is at least one small chain that features them; can't remember its name right now. Pasties in the UP are pretty bland, but with a little tweaking, I'd think the concept could expand. Certainly piroshki shops always seem to do pretty well, even in places (I'm thinking Seattle in particular) without especially large Russian communities.

[Stigand]

Mmmm... pasties.

In addition to Presto, there seem to be quite a few branch of the "West Cornwall Pasty Company" in London, and perhaps further afield, selling a variety of pasties ranging from the traditional, through the eccentric, to the seriously misjudged. There's one in Covent Garden where the old Cranks used to be, and one on the Strand near the Savoy, for starters.

I remember as a child being taken by my grandparents to Ivor Dewdney's in Plymouth (http://www.ivordewdney.co.uk/modern.htm) for pasties for lunch. These were never as good as homemade, but they were nice in the cold weather. They met the description of fast-food despite taking a long-ish time to bake: high turnover meant they were continuously baking, so you could always be sure of getting a hot pasty without having to wait.

[Carlovski]

The last thing that was meant to be the big thing was the soup bar concept wasn't it?

I don't thing that one ever got out to the provinces though.

Thing is, it is not the Best candidates for fast food which win.

Pizza - good. Pizza kept steaming itself into a soggy mass in a cardboard box - Bad.

Fish and Chips - Good. Fried food wrapped up in paper until soggy? - Bad.

Fried Chicken - Good. Chicken Fry/boiled under pressure by a dodgy mythical miliary figure - Bad (Though I do have a soft spot for Hot wings).

By the way, is Spud-U-Like still going? Not seen one for years!

[KNorthrup]

live the dream

[fresco]

Fried Chicken - Good. Chicken Fry/boiled under pressure by a dodgy mythical miliary figure - Bad

Harland Saunder's military honorific may have been a bit dodgy, but probably acceptably so. Wasn't the term "colonel" applied to many southern gentlemen who achieved even a modest amount of renown? Think H. L. Mencken mentions in his memoirs that newspaper editors in the south back in his day were all accorded "Colonel" more or less automatically.

As to mythical, he was real, and quite a bitter pissed off old guy who lived out most of his final days in the Toronto suburb of Mississauga as a tame shill for KFC, whom he hated for messing with his recipe and for having bought him out so cheaply.

[Fat Guy]

The issue with something like pasties is repeatability. How many pasties can anybody be expected to want to eat in a month? I'm sure there's a population somewhere in the world that has been enculturated to be able to tolerate 10 pasties a month, but it's going to be limited to Cornwall or wherever and possibly not even there. Whereas, the entire world seems to be covered with people who are quite willing to eat 10 hamburgers a month.

It seems to me that subs are the future of fast food. Chains like Subway are the most likely to survive obesity litigation and lobbying with their public images intact, and they're more in line with the future of food which I think will be increasingly vegetarian and lowfat or at least less meat- and deep-fat-frying-oriented. I think the niche that needs to be hit is Subway but at a higher quality point: bread with crust, better ingredients, a more ambitious salad program, etc.

[Carlovski]

I think Fat Guy is right, Here in the UK we are being taken by storm by Subway. 4-5 Years ago I had never seen one, but now they are everywhere, and they have got one hell of an expansion program (But didn't McD's have a similar strategy?)

I must admit, I am a sucker for their Meatball subs (I know they are probably bottom of the pile in the meatball sandwich market in the US, but it's about the only place to get one in the UK).

Messy though!

[dscott]

One idea for an international fast food place based on English cooking--breakfast. At its best, the fryup is a marvel: banger, blood sausage, egg, chips, bacon, mushrooms. No cold toast, though, and fried bread is a bit of an acquired taste.

This is where we need an egullet-specific smilie that portrays drooling. A fryup is indeed a thing of beautie.

What I would do for some black pud right about now!

[hjshorter]

I think the niche that needs to be hit is Subway but at a higher quality point: bread with crust, better ingredients, a more ambitious salad program, etc.

Where does a place like Quiznos fit into that equation? Or Cosi? I've never been to either of them, but they seem to be positioning themselves as a step up.

Is the burrito a thing of the past? Seems here in DC burrito joints were a dime a dozen a couple of years ago. That idea seemed like a winner - reasonably fresh ingredients and easy to customize - but (Chipotle aside) it seems like it's peaked. Too small a niche?

[Fat Guy]

Quizno's doesn't represent a substantial uptick in quality from Subway. All the major sub chains are similarly poor (within a narrow range) in terms of quality of ingredients: Subway, Blimpie, Quizno's, etc.

Cosi is a high-quality chain, but it's a premium concept targeted at urban upper-income types. It has no applicability to standard strip-mall environments.

What I'm talking about is a chain version of the corner deli of old, with a Boar's Head-type quality level on the meat side, a bread quality level approximating a good supermarket or warehouse store in-house bakery department, and vegetables on par with a chain like Ruby Tuesday's salad bar.

Burritos, and Mex in general, are doing pretty well, but I can't imagine trying to compete in that market. If you go with an Americanized chain concept you're up against extremely stiff competition. And if you try to go authentic, you can't compete with the real Mexicans.

[Holly Moore]

Whereas, the entire world seems to be covered with people who are quite willing to eat 10 hamburgers a month.

God bless 'em.

[Katherine]

I never eat at fast food places, and I always plan to bring food with me from home. Why? Because fast food is always a tiny portion of meat, a tiny portion of vegetable at best, and a huge quantity of starch. The "healthier" and more "creative" the place, the more starch they include.

So the wrap place around the corner from where I used to work, the one with all the exotic fusion flavors, would serve a "grilled tuna" thai-style burrito, with rice, beans, huge burrito tortilla, a little shredded cabbage and carrot, and less than an ounce of fish. Plus, they served it with tortilla chips. It was three times as much food as I could eat, and almost all starch.

I'd love to be able to pick up a chicken leg quarter, small salad, and a vegetable. It doesn't have to be cooked to order. If anybody opens a place like that, I'll spend my money there.

[Lyle]

What I'm talking about is a chain version of the corner deli of old, with a Boar's Head-type quality level on the meat side, a bread quality level approximating a good supermarket or warehouse store in-house bakery department, and vegetables on par with a chain like Ruby Tuesday's salad bar.

This is already working at many supermarkets. I avoid Whole Foods during lunch because of the gargantuan crowds. I wasn't expecting much, but eating my first deli sandwich from our Tom Thumb kosher deli was a surprising treat, not just sustinance. It does seem pretty doable to lift those operations and place them independantly across the city. The problem would be getting customers to differentiate between you and the Subways located next door and across the street.

[herbacidal]

Cosi is a high-quality chain, but it's a premium concept targeted at urban upper-income types. It has no applicability to standard strip-mall environments.

and then you got panera, for the suburban upper income types.

stopped by my first one a few months ago. i was impressed.

looked good, i'd eat there. didn't that day and haven't since, but i would if it was around where i was and i was hungry.

i think they're probably the ones who inspired the xando-cosi mergers and the remodeling of all the Cosis to their current format.

[Fat Guy]

I'd love to be able to pick up a chicken leg quarter, small salad, and a vegetable. It doesn't have to be cooked to order. If anybody opens a place like that, I'll spend my money there.

Boston Market is the first chain that comes to mind for that.

[Stone]

I never eat at fast food places, and I always plan to bring food with me from home. Why? Because fast food is always a tiny portion of meat, a tiny portion of vegetable at best, and a huge quantity of starch.

Most places let you double up the meat for a relatively low charge. Seriously -- a double Whopper has a respectable amount of meat (though still dry and overcooked). Subway will let you double the meat for about $1.25 extra -- though even doubling, Subway remains, in my opinion, the stingiest of fast-food places. (I remember when they would break the slices of green pepper so you got only a thin strip of pepper running down the center of the sandwich.)

[Katherine]

I never eat at fast food places, and I always plan to bring food with me from home. Why? Because fast food is always a tiny portion of meat, a tiny portion of vegetable at best, and a huge quantity of starch.

Most places let you double up the meat for a relatively low charge. Seriously -- a double Whopper has a respectable amount of meat (though still dry and overcooked). Subway will let you double the meat for about $1.25 extra -- though even doubling, Subway remains, in my opinion, the stingiest of fast-food places. (I remember when they would break the slices of green pepper so you got only a thin strip of pepper running down the center of the sandwich.)

That's true, but if you look at what's left on your plate after you throw away that giant roll you paid for, even with the double meat it's not a meal. And I want a vegetable, too. Whatever happened to vegetables, outside of the sandwich garnish?