TDG: Desperate Measures: Cornbread Wars

[Fat Guy]

The South Needs You!

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[Ron Johnson]

I have lived in the South for almost my entire life. The cornbread that my family makes is much closer to what you call "Yankee" conrnbread than the other. I have never heard of putting bacon or cheese into cornbread. We might throw a jalapeno into the batter, but the only thing we might put bacon and cheese in is our grits.

[jackal10]

Not really about cornbread, but its in the article; What is the other use that you might reserve the kale stems for?

Short of compost, or feeding to pigs, I can't think of any, but you never know what those Southerners might get up to...

[vengroff]

Note that there is also a significant collection of cornbread recipes in the eGullet Recipe Archive.

I'll leave it to the individual authors to promote their specific variations.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Smithy
Updated broken link to provide workable search (log)

[Lyle]

I have lived in the South for almost my entire life.  The cornbread that my family makes is much closer to what you call "Yankee" conrnbread than the other.  I have never heard of putting bacon or cheese into cornbread.  We might throw a jalapeno into the batter, but the only thing we might put bacon and cheese in is our grits.

I feel more Yankee than ever, though still not very. At least we would add cheese occasionally. I suppose, as Mamster said, it ultimately comes down to the availability of the cornmeal.

[nerissa]

I have lived in the South for almost my entire life.  The cornbread that my family makes is much closer to what you call "Yankee" conrnbread than the other.  I have never heard of putting bacon or cheese into cornbread.  We might throw a jalapeno into the batter, but the only thing we might put bacon and cheese in is our grits.

Word.

[Varmint]

I have lived in the South for almost my entire life.  The cornbread that my family makes is much closer to what you call "Yankee" conrnbread than the other.  I have never heard of putting bacon or cheese into cornbread.  We might throw a jalapeno into the batter, but the only thing we might put bacon and cheese in is our grits.

Using bacon drippings to grease the pan is fairly common.

I'd have to agree that even the most "down-home" restaurants in the South that I've visited use yellow cornmeal now. However, it frequently is quite plain without any overt sweetness. A lot of that is because the cornbread is used to soak up gravy, pot likker, and other liquids. Also, blackstrap mollasses goes on the biscuits quite well (some like to cut it with melted butter, first)

[Ron Johnson]

Using bacon drippings to grease the pan is fairly common.

Agreed, but thats not what I was talkign about. His recipe calls for putting bacon bits in the batter along with cheese.

All cornbread that I have had in the south was sweetened.

[Ruth]

Love your Southern recipe as I loathe sweet breads. Is there any way to freeze it without destroying it totally? How do you think the "Yankee" version would come out if you omitted the sugar?

[nightscotsman]

I have a question: what makes white corn meal so different from yellow that it goes bad in the cupboard faster? I don't think I've ever had white corn meal, so have no experience with it.

[mamster]

Jason made me put the bacon in! That's it.

Seriously, I hope it was clear that I was being extremely tongue-in-cheek about any sort of cornbread dogmatism, but I do find that bacon and cheese, however inauthentic, can turn Southern cornbread into a meal.

Haven't tried omitting sugar from the northern cornbread recipe, but I'm guessing that among other things, it helps to counteract the bitterness from the baking powder.

[Ron Johnson]

Don't get me wrong, I think most things can be improved with the addition of bacon and cheese.

[Jason Perlow]

Jason made me put the bacon in!  That's it.

What, only two slices?

[Jinmyo]

Not really about cornbread, but its in the article; What is the other use that you might reserve the kale stems for?

Short of compost, or feeding to pigs, I can't think of any, but you never know what those Southerners might get up to...

I shave kale stems thinly, blanch in a strong dashi (bonito and kelp broth) and toss with pulled salt cod. Drizzle with EVOO, throw in some huge garlic croutons and some thin slices of dried chorizo.

Things like that.

[pogophiles]

Another source for good corn meal is Falls Mill in Belvidere, TN Excellent stuff...

Falls Mill Product List

[mamster]

Oops, I forgot to mention the kale stems. I'd chop them into half-inch pieces, braise, cook with some Italian sausage, and serve over pasta. What Jinmyo said certainly sounds good too.

[Xanthippe]

And yet another source for white cornmeal:

Bob's Red Mill

Excellent products.

Edit w.r.t. kale stems. They're also wonderful shaved a la Jinmyo, chopped into half-inch pieces a la mamster, then added to a big ol' simmering pot of white beans and spicy dried chorizo.

Edited May 5, 2003 by Xanthippe (log)

[jhlurie]

To be specific, the crumbly, cakey, usually (but not always white) non-sweetened cornbread is "Mississippi Cornbread", and as that name suggests I'm pretty sure that its not indiginous to the entire South. The opposite end of the spectrum--the sweet and chewy "Yankee Cornbread" is apparently also derisively referred to as "Johnny Cake", even though that term has also been borrowed for other things.

We took some kind of poll on this at some point though, and people actually voted for the Johnny Cake version, like... 10 to 1 in favor. I was totally disgusted.

As for the bacon thing... I think the main requirement is just for some kind of fat. Bacon is as good as anything, so why not use it? The important part is the fat though--the grease--and not the meat.

The important thing that I remember about the Mississippi version that I'VE had (although my main exposure to it was in Virginia, of all places, so of course it could be wrong) was that it crumbled up into food, if desired, or absorbed stuff off your plate. So that also makes me not so sure about the cheese. (although just to contradict myself, here's a link that suggests otherwise...)

Here's a link to one that seems especially "traditional", (in his description at least) although someone else is going to have to comment on how "traditional" Aunt Jemimah Corn Meal Mix is.

Edited May 5, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[CookieMonster]

Haven't tried omitting sugar from the northern cornbread recipe, but I'm guessing that among other things, it helps to counteract the bitterness from the baking powder.

Oh, I tried this in one of my earnest, yet failed, cooking experiments. While I like southern cornbread, northern cornbread without sweetener is just awful. You know how corn itself has some sweetness to it? Well, making it into meal takes out all that deliciousness. I think you're right that the sugar counteracts the bitterness of the baking powder, but whatever the chemical reaction is, not having some sweetener in northern cornbread makes it nearly inedible.

And mamster, you forgot one of the best vegetables in Louisiana - okra! Yummmm... gumbo ;-)

~ CookieMonster

[mamster]

Thanks, jhlurie. I knew someone else would have the answers after I posted this column. Xanthippe, that kale stem idea sounds delicious.

How Northern cornbread got to be called "johnnycake" beats me. I think the word "johnnycake" just gets thrown around for everything; I've even heard those cast iron cornstick pans called "johnnycake pans". Really johnnycakes are native to the northeast (Rhode Island? Maine?) and are pancakes made with white whole-grain cornmeal--the same stuff used for Mississippi cornbread.

[afoodnut]

How Northern cornbread got to be called "johnnycake" beats me.  I think the word "johnnycake" just gets thrown around for everything; I've even heard those cast iron cornstick pans called "johnnycake pans".  Really johnnycakes are native to the northeast (Rhode Island? Maine?) and are pancakes made with white whole-grain cornmeal--the same stuff used for Mississippi cornbread.

I've heard lots of theories about why they're called johnnycakes, but one often bandied about is that it might be derived from journey cake (travellers taking some along). I've also heard that it might be from "Shawnee cake," after the Natives who taught the settlers how to use the corn.

Edit: I just did some checking. My 1972 edition of the NYTimes Heritage Cookbook says "Rhode Island johnnycakes were originally called journey cakes because the circuit riders carried the bread with them on their travels to preach the gospel. Massachusets johnnycakes usually have wheat flour and corn meal in them."

So that's one authority in favor of the journey cake derivation.

And online The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition gives both journey cake and Shawnee cake as synonyms.

clickheredictionary

Regional Note: When the Native Americans showed the Pilgrims how to cook with maize, they must have taught them to make johnnycake, a dense cornmeal bread whose thick batter is shaped into a flat cake and baked or fried on a griddle. Johnnycake, also spelled jonnycake and also called journey cake and Shawnee cake, is a New England specialty, especially in Rhode Island,

Edited May 5, 2003 by afoodnut (log)

[fifi]

In Texas, the traditional, I won't say majority of the, corn bread is yellow, stone ground. I don't think you start seeing white corn meal until you get well east as I have pretty much only seen the yellow in south Louisiana. The basic bread is maybe a tablespoon of sugar at the most to 2 cups of meal, NO FLOUR, leavening, buttermilk, 2 eggs. That is what you usually see in the local recipe collections, BBQs, etc. The same Iron skillet/hot fat method prevails. My cornbread LOOKS just like mamster's picture. (And a pretty picture it is, too. My son would say..."Another perfect corn pone.")

That tradition might just be changing and even fading away. I can remember my grandmother bitching about that 30 years ago... "All these folks usin' those mixes. Why, they make a better yellow cake than your Aunt Minnie. Purt soon nobody will know what good cornbread is anymore! Goddam shame!" While the traditional is easy to make it does take some technique to get a truly perfect cornbread. Outside of the interested cooks like those that hang out here, who bothers anymore? I think the convenience of the mixes took over, most of them were sweet and cakey things, they were easy, kids weren't raised on anything else, etc. etc. until the tradition suffers. And, remember, my grandmother's rant (and I remember it was longer and bluer than I put it here) was 30 years or more ago so there has been time for the tradition to be eroded even further.

The reason that the meal doesn't keep very long is that it is not degerminated. The germ contains the oil which will oxidize and get all yucky. However, mamster, I find that the cooked bread travels very well.

[Haggis]

About adding cheese to any style of cornbread: If you use, say, regular cheddar right out of the package, it's pretty well going to get lost in the baking process. You will scarcely taste it, and just forget about seeing strands of it ooze out between bites. If you want to both taste it and notice its texture, the thing to do is use some cheese that you have left out for a spell. It should be well hardened. A safe way to do this is to leave it in the fridge overnight, unwrapped sitting on a plate. Two nights, even better. I gave up on using cheddar in my jalapeno cornbread until a chef taught me this trick some years back. The hardening assures that it doesn't melt completely away while baking.

[fifi]

Thanks for the cheese tip, Haggis! I intend to try it because I have also been disappointed with "loosing the cheese" when wanting to add jalapenos and chees to cornbread. Makes sense. I intend to try it.

Another excellent testimonial for hanging out at eGullet.

[heyjude]

Spoonbread is another form of Southern cornbread usually served as a side dish to meat or poultry. It is more like a custard or souffle, baked in a casserole, than a bread, but uses the same basic ingredients.