Tomatoes in Italian Cooking: Tips & Techniques

[Bill Klapp]

Maybe in Sicilia, but in the home of capellini d' angelo, soup would be among its LAST legitimate uses. Among other things, it would dissolve in the soup if left there for any time.

[peterpumkino]

I've been told by Italians (well, Sicilians anyway) that angel-hair pasta is only for soup, you break it up and toss it in.  I noticed in Guiliano Hazan's book he makes that assertion too.  Are there two camps of thought?  I like tossing it with a simple tomato sauce on week nights when I can't wait for dinner to be ready, so I've been ignoring that "rule".

regards,

trillium

Hmmh. I was going to laugh at this one and then I put my memory in gear and recalled that, although I have had many angle hair pasta dishes in the UK and the States, I've had very few (if any) in Italy so you may be right. Craig? Bill? I know Italians don'r particularly like to cook with Angel Hair as it is impossible to cook the pasta 'al dente'.

[tanabutler]

Hi, all, a newbie here to this great forum.

I blanch and coarse dice our homegrown tomatoes for the uncooked sauce, and sometimes lightly sauté minced red onion in EVOO before tossing it all together with the basil and other good stuff.

Ciao for now...I'm just poking my way through the forums and loving it.

[tirgoddess]

I have 15 tomato plants going in my California garden right now. I have frozen about 5 gallons of sauce so far. Sauce making is what I was doing last night. I peel and seed the tomatos by hand. While the water is boiling for this I process onions and garlic and set aside. Then I process various meats - pork, hot italian sausage, and beef and set in fridge. After tomatos are peeled and seeded, (messy and time consuming), I saute onion and garlic, add dried basil, oregano and chili flakes. I remove this, set aside, and saute meat. I strain the meat and add with onion mix back to pan w/ tomatos. Then I simmer it down for about 5 hours. It is delicious, and wonderful to pull out mid winter for quitesential comfort meal.

I have also slow roasted tomato slices w/ garlic, olive oil and salt at 250 for about 5 hours and tossed w/ angel hair. Excellent preparation as well.

[Craig Camp]

peel and seed the tomatos by hand

tossed w/ angel hair.

By hand! Get a food mill it will change your life

Heavy sauces like this are not recommended with angel hair pasta as they will overwelm it. Often delicate pasta like angel hair is used for soup or a very delicate sauce. Try a thick spaghetti, pennone rigati or rigatoni and you will have a pasta equal to your big, rich sauce.

[Jaymes]

Okay - so here's my "secret ingredient."

Consider yourself honored. I NEVER tell my guests what it is that adds that tangy little "zip" to my fresh tomato sauce.

It's just a pinch of mustard. Dijon, preferably, although I have experimented with others.

Dijon.

Give it a try.

But don't tell my friends.

[scott123]

I really despise dried oregano in tomato sauce and have equally strong feelings about dried basil. Fresh basil, on the other hand, is magical.

Out of the regions that do a traditional tomato based pasta sauce, how common are dried versions of these herbs?

[albiston]

I really despise dried oregano in tomato sauce and have equally strong feelings about dried basil. Fresh basil, on the other hand, is magical.

Out of the regions that do a traditional tomato based pasta sauce, how common are dried versions of these herbs?

←

Scott, from my point of view, i.e. that of someone who's lived most of his life in Naples, dried basil is simply not used. The lack of fresh basil in winter is made up by a few possible substitutes: I've tried basil infused oil, frozen basil and a frozen paste of basil and EV olive oil. The oil is probably the best in keeping the flavor of fresh basil, but you really need to prepare it with loads of basil. The frozen leaves were IMO disappointing.

Oregano is a different subject. It can be used both dried and fresh, and since the flavour completely changes through drying, the culinary uses do too. I like both. Also, since oregano usually survives Southern Italian winters you can have both at the same time and not one as a substitute for the other. I generally use fresh in salads and vegetable dishes, while I use the dried stuff seldom and sparingly, but then in cooked dishes that call for it, especially in sauces.

[hathor]

Alberto has said it all. The only other thing I do is to keep some basil on the windowsill and nuture it along. OK, so then its just a little accent flavor, but at least its reminder of better weather to come.

[ecr]

I just picked up some Sicilian dried oregano (still on the stem) at a mercato in Italy. For me it's a must (though used sparingly) in puttanesca sauce. I also like to use it when duplicating a dish I had in Liguria: a thin layer of potatoes, then a thin layer of fresh tomato, garlic/parsley/dried oregano/salt/pepp/olive oil sprinkled liberally in betw and on top, then roasted till just tender. Then a nice whole fish or meaty fillet on top, sprinkled with the same, back in the oven and roast till fish is done.

Fresh oregano doesn't seem to do the job in either of these dishes. And there's no doubt that the quality of the stuff I purchased on the stem far exceeds that of dried oregano sold in jars.

[katiaANDronald]

i can only back-up what alberto has already said - dried basil hardly ever used . dried oregano is used regularly often - both in pastas but also one of my favourites things when back in sicily a simple salad with tomatoes, dried oregano and olive oil - tasting real tomatoe like this after a steady diet of some plasticky version of a red ball that there typically is in the UK is a treat!

[bleudauvergne]

I would like to know if oregano is regularly sold fresh at the markets in Italy? I have never seen it in France, although we do use it here dried from time to time. I have always thought that it was an herb that is normally used only after having been dried due to certain qualities that only come out when it is dry.

[albiston]

I would like to know if oregano is regularly sold fresh at the markets in Italy?  I have never seen it in France, although we do use it here dried from time to time.  I have always thought that it was an herb that is normally used only after having been dried due to certain qualities that only come out when it is dry.

←

Lucy,

I've rarely seen origano sold as fresh herb, like basil or parsley, and more often than not only because I had ordered it in advance from my greengrocer. On the other hand potted oregano plants are quite easy to find, so those who use it often grow it on their kitchen windowsill.

What can be a problem is finding real oregano plants. Oregano is closely related to marjoram and there are many wild and cultivated varietals that, aroma-wise, land closer to one or the other. When you buy one of these plants in Italy plant the name on the shield should often be taken as a possibility of what it is, not as a guarantee .

Slightly OT but herb-related: I was wondering if giving herbs off to customers as a gift is common where you live. In Naples it is pretty much the custom and I was a bit confused the first time I went shopping in Northern Italy, a few years back, and had to pay for my basil. I miss my greengrocer. . .

[bleudauvergne]

I would like to know if oregano is regularly sold fresh at the markets in Italy?   I have never seen it in France, although we do use it here dried from time to time.  I have always thought that it was an herb that is normally used only after having been dried due to certain qualities that only come out when it is dry.

←

Lucy,

I've rarely seen origano sold as fresh herb, like basil or parsley, and more often than not only because I had ordered it in advance from my greengrocer. On the other hand potted oregano plants are quite easy to find, so those who use it often grow it on their kitchen windowsill.

What can be a problem is finding real oregano plants. Oregano is closely related to marjoram and there are many wild and cultivated varietals that, aroma-wise, land closer to one or the other. When you buy one of these plants in Italy plant the name on the shield should often be taken as a possibility of what it is, not as a guarantee .

Slightly OT but herb-related: I was wondering if giving herbs off to customers as a gift is common where you live. In Naples it is pretty much the custom and I was a bit confused the first time I went shopping in Northern Italy, a few years back, and had to pay for my basil. I miss my greengrocer. . .

←

You were quite luckyin Naples - as For Lyon the best you'll get is a few sprigs of parsley from the butcher if he is in a good mood. Otherwise, it's 80 centimes a bunch for any herb from the producers. I buy an enormous bouquet per week.

As for Oregano - I somehow got it into my mind that this herb grew only in the wild and has not successfully been cultivated. Probably just another one of my romantic daydreams, although I read something like that somewhere...

If you ever get a chance to snap a photo of what is offered at the market in dried form in Italy I would be very interested to take a look.

[albiston]

As for Oregano - I somehow got it into my mind that this herb grew only in the wild and has not successfully been cultivated.  Probably just another one of my romantic daydreams, although I read something like that somewhere...

If you ever get a chance to snap a photo of what is offered at the market in dried form in Italy I would be very interested to take a look. 

←

Wild origano is fantastic, extremely intense and rich in aroma, but I've seen it rarely in Italy (in Sicily maybe? Ronald?). I'll remember to take a photo next time, but I'm afraid you'll have to wait until February-March, I won't be travelling to Italy sooner than that .

Would a picture of of Mugwort from Germany do ?

[hathor]

OK, I'll bite: what's mugwort?? I thought that was like a Harry Potter made up word!

Speaking of oregano: has anyone else come across a variety of oregano that is very large (5 times normal oregano leaves) leaf, curly, varigated, bit hairy and very...sturdy. I bought some in the NY market..and dried it. Incrediblely pungent flavor.

[albiston]

OK, I'll bite: what's mugwort?? I thought that was like a Harry Potter made up word! 

←

Never thought of that! It does indeed sound like something from Harry Potter.

Mugwort is Artemisia vulgaris, a relative of wormwood, called Beifuss in German. In this part of Germany it is a must for the Christmas goose or duck.

If you want more info there's plenty here.

[jpdchef]

hathor-perhaps you're looking for cuban oregano? http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_image.php?pic=105

Edited January 12, 2005 by jpdchef (log)

[Adam Balic]

What Alberto said and oregano is sometime called 'Wild Majoram'. Oregano and Thyme are both great when dried, but different to the fresh in flavour profile. One word or warning is that many expensive and pretty looking bunches of oregano are often worthless from a cooking point of view as they seem to have been ried using some type of process that preserves their colour and form, but not the flavour. It is like cooking with dried grass.

Would not use dried basil though.

[bleudauvergne]

There was a time there when I was paying extra for a shot of winter wheat grass or something or other in my daily smoothie. Oh the 90s.

Now back to oregano. I think I may have gotten some at the market, it was a pungent curly leaved mystery herb that I never did place. The leaves were stemming out in evenly spaced clumps, or buds. The fresh leaf tasted vaguely of lavendar. I let it dry and the dried product is a totally different animal, the lavendar flavor's completely gone, but its still got a nice strong pungent flavor. I threw it into meat braises. Could it have been some strain of oregano, I wonder?

[hathor]

Alberto: excellent info on mugwort! Recently read how "artisinal absinthe" is making a comeback.

jpdchef: exactemente! It was Cuban oregano. Highly recommend this if anyone else ever comes across it. Very unique flavor.

[Bux]

Allow me to add my name to the list of those who find no use for dried basil and therefore no reason to dry it. It's quite flavorless and at best, adds nothing to a dish. Oregano, on the other hand, may be more pungent dried than fresh, but that may be a matter of the variety or quality of the oreganon we grew.

That's all pretty much redundent opinion here. I really wanted to comment on how times change all over in regard to the gift of herbs from a merchant. Years ago when we first started shopping in Chinatown in NYC, fish merchants would usually throw in a scallion (green onion) and a slice of ginger with every fish. I can't recall the last time that's happened.

[pia]

You have been saying almost everything about dried or fresh basil and oregano, but let me tell my opinion: dried basil is a non-sense, while I could never conceive a Pizza Marinara or Fettine alla Pizzaiola without a generous sprinkle of dried oregano just before serving.I love dried origano with tomato sauce and also with fresh tomato salads, but you need to rub the dried leaves between your hands, before spreading it on the food. The warmth of the friction makes it even more pungent. It is also delicious on grilled peppers or egg-plants (together with capers and/or black olives), on marinated anchovies, bottarga (or mosciamme) and tomato salad.

[Milagai]

Hi:

My question was inspired by a brief thread on one of the

main boards, on tradition and fusion etc.

I thought tomatoes were a new world plant

and thus introduced to Italy and Europe in general

only post-Columbus.

For outsiders, it seems tomatoes now play a

major role in the cuisine and has practically

acquired traditional or iconic status and one has

a hard time imagining Italian cuisine without tomatoes?

So how are tomatoes viewed within Italian cuisine?

Newcomer?

Intrinsically necessary?

And what about potatoes?

Please forgive me if this is an ignorant question or has

been covered elsewhere.....

Thanks in advance

Milagai

[slkinsey]

Tomatoes had some trouble gaining acceptance in Italy, but were widely consumed by the 1700s. That's a couple hundred years of culinary use -- plenty of time for them to be considered firmly traditional.

But why stop there? Consider that the spicy chili peppers featured so prominently in Thai and Chinese cooking also came from the New World.