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Truly original signature dishes?

Steve Plotnicki

By Steve Plotnicki
in Restaurant Life

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Gavin Jones

Gavin Jones

Posted
Posted
Is there a chef whose name is at all "known" who does not have a signature dish?

I think SteveP. wanted to accumulate evidence then deduce something.

Not a research strategy that has a great record.

I tried some examples to show that no meaningful conclusion should be available.

All I'm deducing is how reputation is spread.

Wilma squawks no more

Fat Guy

Fat Guy

Posted
Posted

We mentioned Pierre Gagnaire on the Arpege thread; I think he pretty much has no signature dishes, but surely he counts as a famous chef.

As for the db burger, this is another example of why it's so hard to pin down signatures and what they mean. Surely the idea of stuffing a hamburger is nothing new. Do a search on Google and you'll find a hundred or so pages of links to stuffed hamburger recipes. Yet the food media has been unanimous in saying that "Daniel Boulud has reinvented the hamburger!" But it also seems clear that Boulud is responsible for a mini-trend -- a retro move towards stuffed hamburgers at haute cuisine restaurants. The most direct knockoff I saw recently was at Rouge. It had different ingredients -- no foie gras, for example -- but it was the same idea. Boulud's idea? Well, sort of . . . And by the way, it's not a particularly impressive dish. I don't think it will be a long-lived trend.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

hollywood

hollywood

Posted
Posted
I don’t know if famous forever applies, but when a dish/chef/restaurant is mentioned – these are the names that come to mind

Thomas Keller’s – Oysters and Pearls

Grant Achatz – Liquid Truffle Ravioli

Paul Prudomme – Blackened Catfish

Todd English – Prosciutto/Fig Jam pizza

General Tso – his Chicken

Resto Dishes

21 Club – Steak tartare

Peter Luger’s - Porterhouse

In the case of Prudhomme, I think you mean blackened redfish. As for catfish, Shiro in South Pasadena is pretty wellknown for his fried catfish with ginger in ponzu sauce.

I'm hollywood and I approve this message.

hollywood

hollywood

Posted
Posted
Isn't it a bit too soon to consider the dbBurger a "signature" dish?  I think emulation is required before a dish can be so labelled.

Before you retract your choice, I'd mention the Double Double Animal Style at In N Out Burger.

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hollywood

hollywood

Posted
Posted
Wolfgang Puck - Smoked Salmon Pizza

In re Puck, he's pretty well known in these parts for the foie gras and the lobster as served at Chinois on Main.

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Jinmyo

Jinmyo

Posted
Posted

Mabo's dofu.

"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

Steve Plotnicki

Steve Plotnicki

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Wifrid - 're u looking at 'im?

Let me try and say it in a way that makes it clear. A signature dish is just a dish that a chef is famous for. It is his "signature" in the lexicon of fine dining. So Colonal Sander's doesn't apply because he never made a famous version of fried chicken that people went out of their way to eat. He established a brand. And the level of fame is relevent as well. The public has to associate the dish with the chef, but it can also be associated with a place.

Fat Guy - Youjr wanting to give credit for dishes that also inspired other chefs to make variations or copies while a good one, is a completely different thread. For example, as far as I know, the entire seared tuna with a pepper crust phenomenon comes from the Spago kitchen. And while chefs all over the country copied it, it isn't a signature dish at Spago although it was on the menu the last time I was there about 6 years ago.

Puck's fame does not derive from that dish being influential. But it would if people traveled to L.A. specifically to eat that dish at Spago. But people who are visiting NYC make sure they get to eat the DB Burger. So it's a question of fame.

So from the additional suggestion that were made since my last post, here is what I think qualifies and what I think does not.

Al Forno - Grilled Pizza

Thomas Keller: Oysters and tapioca

Taillevent - Lobster Sausage, Chocolate Cake with Pistachio Sauce

La Mere Poulard - Omelet

Fergus Henderson - Bone Marrow Salad

Paul Prudhome - Blackened Catfish

Todd English - Mushroom flan with Foie Gras, Fig Pizza

Michael Romano - Filet Mignon of Tuna

The Palm - Steak ala Stone

David Burke - Swordfish Chop and Pastrami Salmon are excellent ones. But because David's restaurant isn't at the top tier, he didn't get the requisite level of fame for inventing them.

I have to say that fame is sort of a relative term. Some of the dishes Jon Tseng listed might well be signature dishes. But I'm using whether they are famous enough for me to have heard of them as the standard. Of course I'm not exactly a perfact standard. But I do keep my eyes and ears open about these things. But there are many signature dishes both from chefs and restaurants that we can add to the list.

Wilfrid

Wilfrid

Posted
Posted

Steve, you hadn't heard of Marco Pierre White's scallops with black truffles, or it didn't count? What about Jonathan Waxman's grilled chicken and fries? Fernand Point's gratin d'ecrevisses.

I don't like this game. It's just a memory test. Someone think of a different game.

(Gee whatever happened to the rule about if you don't like a thread just move on? I know, I know. But this is almost interesting. Something's missing.)

Steve Plotnicki

Steve Plotnicki

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Wilfrid - No despite eating at MPW a number of times, I never noticed the scallop dish. But the Waxman chicken is clearly his signature dish. Though there isn't really much dishe there. It's just grilled butterflied chicken.

CathyL

CathyL

Posted
Posted

Wifrid, don't be a spoilsport. I like this game because 2 of my suggestions were Plotnicki-approved.

(I still think you're dreamy, however. :wub::wub::wub: )

Lady T

Lady T

Posted
Posted

Mr. Jones -- Novelli and Kaufmann (forgive me if I misspelled in haste from memory!), and Charlie Trotter as well: CT puts "crispy pig's foot" into/under/on top of a large number of savory dishes, somewhat as a signature.

:smile:

Me, I vote for the joyride every time.

-- 2/19/2004

Wilfrid

Wilfrid

Posted
Posted
Wilfrid - No despite eating at MPW a number of times, I never noticed the scallop dish. But the Waxman chicken is clearly his signature dish. Though there isn't really much dishe there. It's just grilled butterflied chicken.

Okay, my fault. I just read the rest of the Arpege thread, and now I see why we're doing this.

Marco used to actually give dates of creation for his sig. dishes (in his opinion) on his menu. The scallops "black tie" dates from his Harvey's days and was much talked about in its day. Just to be clear, I think it's a little silly that butterflied grilled chicken should be regarded as a sig.dish, and the same goes for lamb shank. But that's the kind of thing people think of.

What's really at stake, I think, is whether any of the dishes we are listing as sig. dishes today will endure in terms either of actually staying on menus or remaining a discernible influence on other dishes. That calls for some soaring speculation!

Wilfrid

Wilfrid

Posted
Posted
Mr. Jones -- Novelli and Kaufmann (forgive me if I misspelled in haste from memory!), and Charlie Trotter as well:  CT puts "crispy pig's foot" into/under/on top of a large number of savory dishes, somewhat as a signature.

:smile:

Yes, and Richard Corrigan is known for it as well. Anyone fancy Gary Rhodes's foie gras-stuffed faggots, which pre-dated the dB burger somewhat?

hollywood

hollywood

Posted
Posted
Fat Guy - Youjr wanting to give credit for dishes that also inspired other chefs to make variations or copies while a good one, is a completely different thread. For example, as far as I know, the entire seared tuna with a pepper crust phenomenon comes from the Spago kitchen. And while chefs all over the country copied it, it isn't a signature dish at Spago although it was on the menu the last time I was there about 6 years ago.

Puck's fame does not derive from that dish being influential. But it would if people traveled to L.A. specifically to eat that dish at Spago.

Steve,

If I'm not mistaken, Puck serves the seared ahi with pepper crust at his Cafes.

I'm hollywood and I approve this message.

GordonCooks

GordonCooks

Posted
Posted
I don’t know if famous forever applies, but when a dish/chef/restaurant is mentioned – these are the names that come to mind

Thomas Keller’s – Oysters and Pearls

Grant Achatz – Liquid Truffle Ravioli

Paul Prudomme – Blackened Catfish

Todd English – Prosciutto/Fig Jam pizza

General Tso – his Chicken

Resto Dishes

21 Club – Steak tartare

Peter Luger’s - Porterhouse

In the case of Prudhomme, I think you mean blackened redfish. As for catfish, Shiro in South Pasadena is pretty wellknown for his fried catfish with ginger in ponzu sauce.

Noted, thanks - I'm not a huge cajun fan

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