Best coffee in town

[jfl91]

carswell, do you know some places because at the moment I even don't 1 place where I can roast my little 2-3 pounds of coffee.

Also carswell, what do you think of the grinder in the Seaco Incanto Sirius (fully automatic) wich is in ceramic?

Edited September 16, 2005 by jfl91 (log)

[carswell]

carswell, do you know some places because at the moment I even don't 1 place where I can roast my little 2-3 pounds of coffee.

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Sorry but I don't know of any local roasters that will roast beans they didn't sell. And most roasters' machines are designed to work with large volumes, not 2-3 lbs. (Some roasters may have smaller machines for test batches though.) All I can suggest is that you ask local roasters/retailers (Coffee Union, Terra, Faema, etc.) or post a query on CoffeeGeek's Eastern Canada forum or alt.coffee, where a number of Montrealers hang out. Failing that, you could always roast them youself (don't do this indoors unless you have stupendously good ventilation). Decent home machines can be had for under $200 and high-end machines for 2-3 times that. It's also fairly easy to modify certain models of hot-air popcorn poppers; if you pick up one at a garage sale, you're looking at a total investment of $10. See Sweet Maria's for reviews of machines and some useful how-to documentation.

what do you think of the grinder in the Seaco Incanto Sirius (fully automatic) wich is in ceramic?

It's got good reviews and the grind is reportedly adjustable. I'm not big on superautos, though, so I haven't been tracking the machine, nor do I have any hands-on experience with it.

[jfl91]

Well thank you for the information!

[Vinfidel]

also jfl91 i know some coffee shop owners like second cup frnchise and they will do some roasting en prive if you need it. the best is to buy your own roaster, but too much work and smell if you askd me.

maybe you should call and ask the art coffee java guys they are nice

[allan]

Finally, Montreal does have a spot which does take making espresso seriously. Caffe Art Java has done their homework, the barristas are properly trained, the coffee is fresh and of quality, the attitude right.

The restaurant aspect is fine, modeled pretty much on the successful Caffe Artigiano concept in Vancouver. Food is reasonably OK.

But the approach to espresso making is a first, at least commercially, in this city. Hopefully it succeeds in educating people as to what a real espresso looks like and tastes like.

The truth is most do not know. Even on this thread, with sophisticated foodies, people are deceived by places like the Brulerie, Toi, moi, etc., Deux Maries, etc. places that actually roast and should have some modicum of knowledge about espresso. They are all disasters when it comes to espresso, and they certainly do not even know it.

Some of our Italian cafes have some history in knowing, at least, what an espresso should like. Some are OK. None of them, as far as I know, however, use coffee that is really good.

With Caffe Art Java, we have entered a new league. Rush over and experience what an espresso can be.

[Kenk]

Oye Vay Allan,

Many of the people that contribute to the Montreal Forum are very knowledable.

There are many opinions and many tastes for coffee. Some like drip/perk/squish(French press)/turkish/greek/espresso/cap/.......

Just why do you hold such a strong oppinion on this place I don't understand.

The best coffees I ever had was at a bar accross the street from the Torino train station at 6:00AM, and every coffee I had in Madrid.

Although I have occasionally had some that are good in Canada. but I would never hold up Vancouver as the model.

Allan, what is your interest in this place?

[allan]

No, I have not invested in ArtJava. My interest is solely based on the fact that for years I have been waiting for some commercial establishment in Montreal to make a committment to high quality espresso.

Of course we are talking about taste, isn't that what this is all about? But there are standards of quality. There is a proper way to make a good espresso. At a very fundamental level, if an espresso does not have any crema (never mind issues of colour, which are most important) it simply will not be good. If somebody claims that an crema-less espresso which they are drinking is good, well, yes, that is their taste, but they cannot be drinking a good espresso. Most non-Italian spots in this city, including those I've already mentionned, simply do not make proper espressos. Period.

And ironically enough, there are several places in Vancouver which do - Artigiano, J. J. Bean, amongst others. Just as in Seattle, where there is a sub-culture of of espresso afficionados who place enormous emphasis on quality, doing their own roasting, perfecting techniques, etc. (e. g. Vivace, Zoka, etc.).

I do not doubt your Turino experience - we are talking, after all, of an Italian drink. They have a tradition and a knowledge which is part of the culture - the technique is there, the standards, the water, the quality and freshness of the coffee, etc.

I repeat what I have said earlier. No commercial spot in Montreal, that I am aware of, is hitting the level that ArtJava is.

[carswell]

allan's not exaggerating, Kenk. Yes, there's no disputing taste. But there's also no denying that Caffe Art Java is one of the few places in town that gets the four M's and the W (they treat their water) right. Though some may prefer the darker roast used at Cafe Italia to CAJ's lighter, Northern Italian-style Leftist Blend, their espresso is at least as good as the city's top contenders and probably better by objective measures such as crema, texture and body. The milk-based drinks are simply without rival in Montreal, if only for the reason that no one else produces such perfect microfoam. Consistency is another of their strong points, something you can't say about many espresso bars, even the good ones. These days, I find myself making detours and rearranging my schedule just so I can drop by. The coffee's really that good.

[Kenk]

Ah!

Now I understand!

You are looking for good coffee.

I will give it a try.

I now have a built in sceptisism of west coast based coffee places for obvious reasons. But if for some reason a good coffee comes from there great.

[iharrison]

Le Cartet on McGill has superb coffee

I could use a cup or three right now

[riboflavinjoe]

i have had a few lattes at caffe art java in the past few weeks, and i have to say it is the best i have had in town, hands down. the breakfast special is 6.95, and comes with your standard bacon-eggs-potatoes-fruit-bread thing, but you get the latte with it. when you consider that the latte is at least 3 (can't remember exactly how much), it's quite a steal.

BUT! I dropped by this evening for a cafe mocha, and while flavourwise, i was very happy, the service was much more snobby, and the care and execution of the coffee was definitely lacking. the frothed milk that the guy went to put on top of the coffee was not as stiff, and didn't hold the sugar on top like the latte does. also, the guy didn't put the cute design on the top. the morning shift seem to have their stuff together and take pride in serving, but the night people didn't do it for me. did anyone else have similar experiences at Caffe Art Java?

[allan]

I was by again the other day and the espresso pulled was a little long. They are going to maintain the rigours of barrista work on a constant basis. It's too easy to slip. If you look at the training manuals of a place like Second Cup, they do, in fact teach how to make a proper espresso. But once out of school, forget it.

The difference that will ensure the success at ArtJava is that they have to be compulsive over every shot, every latte, whatever the time of day or however busy they might be.

[Kenk]

Hello,

I had a cappuccino at ArtJava this weekend. I found the coffee tasted good but the cappuccino was drowned with milk and did not have enough foam. The service was not good. My friends ordered coffees and asked the server to return to take an order for food. They never returned and we left. Not a good sign.

My preference for a cappuccino is a short espresso toped with mostly foam.

[wizpers]

I think we should define what we expect from a cappuccino or a Latte, 'cause the Italian way is totally different then the North American way. Personally a cappuccino is a strong half cup of coffee topped by a creamy sweet expertly foamed milk. Nothing like a solid Iceberg on the top of my cup... Traditionally, the cocoa powder is suppose to be inexistant or under the foamy milk, so that you see a cappucine look on the top, you know like the monks...

Edited October 13, 2005 by wizpers (log)

[poutine]

Went to ArtJava last week & we had double espressos & thought they were very good. The cappucino I had Saturday from Open da night was most excellent. I would give a slight nod to Cafe Olympico.

[MaeveH]

Hi Kenk,

sounds like you'd enjoy their macchiato more, an espresso topped with a smidge of milk and foam. They don't really do cappucinos there (by my def, anyway), but if you want a milky latte they're tops. also, because the foam is incorporated more evenly throughout the milk, you don't get that wizpers "iceberg" of foam on top. They're different beasts, is all. I kind of prefer to have a more thorough distribution and blending of milk and coffee. gives it a richer mouthfeel for longer.

Also, let them know what you'd like! They'll be happy to accomodate anyone's wishes for more or less milk.

[jbbank]

I went to ArtJava tonight to check it out and had a double espresso. It was certainly the best I've had in Montreal. Perfect crema, lots of complex chocolate flavors and a very good finish. It did seem a little on the acidic side and don't know if it has more to do with the beans, roast or low water temp, but despite that, it was still the best shot I've had in Montreal. Does anyone know what kind of roast they put on their beans?

I'll be returning tomorrow to try their latte. I just hope they're able to keep this level of standard in the years to come. They've really got the grind, extraction time and tamp correctly, which I find a rarity even amongst decent coffee places in Montreal.

[carswell]

It's Gimme! Coffee's Leftist blend, which their website describes as being medium dark and Northern Italian style. Acidity is mostly a function of the beans. Low/high temperature makes coffee sour/bitter; sometimes sourness registers as acidity. Also, dark roasting can smooth out acidity. Still, the type of bean is probably paramount.

I just hope they're able to keep this level of standard in the years to come.

Yeah. And here's hoping that they spawn legions of competitors. This city's coffee bars are ripe for kicking up to the next level.

[jbbank]

Does anyone know if there's another place in Montreal that is capable of pulling a proper ristretto shot? I'd like to have a better basis for comparison, but all the other coffee places I've visited lately have given me practically a half a capuccino worth of espresso when I ask for a double.

[carswell]

Have you ever asked for one at Cafe Italia or Olympico, jb? (I've not but they both know how to pull a decent espresso.)

[jbbank]

I've never had a shot there. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to try them out this weekend.

[thomasein]

Have you ever asked for one at Cafe Italia or Olympico, jb? (I've not but they both know how to pull a decent espresso.)

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yes, i have and would certainly recommend Cafe Italia to anyone in need of a ristretto. never tried at Olympico - that place doesn't do it for me.

[ItalianFoodJunkie]

Have you ever asked for one at Cafe Italia or Olympico, jb? (I've not but they both know how to pull a decent espresso.)

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yes, i have and would certainly recommend Cafe Italia to anyone in need of a ristretto. never tried at Olympico - that place doesn't do it for me.

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in montreal olympico is a class of above the rest in terms of the flavour of their espresso. The cream is the right colour (dark brown), there is a perfect balance of cream to coffe to aroma. Olympico s espresso is beter than 70% of the espressi you would have in italy.

Latini is also a higher standard for espresso, but who can afford to eat there?

[thomasein]

Have you ever asked for one at Cafe Italia or Olympico, jb? (I've not but they both know how to pull a decent espresso.)

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yes, i have and would certainly recommend Cafe Italia to anyone in need of a ristretto. never tried at Olympico - that place doesn't do it for me.

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in montreal olympico is a class of above the rest in terms of the flavour of their espresso. The cream is the right colour (dark brown), there is a perfect balance of cream to coffe to aroma. Olympico s espresso is beter than 70% of the espressi you would have in italy.

Latini is also a higher standard for espresso, but who can afford to eat there?

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I do not disagree with what you are saying. I was referring to the ambience of cafe olympico, i do not doubt that the expresso is excellent. As for the coffee in Italy, I have found the quality so variable as to render meaningless it's use as any sort of datum.