Corned Beef At Home: Recipes, Tips, etc.

[Jensen]

Anyone have any good recipes for making your own corned beef?

I ordered a beef brisket from a small farmer here in NorCal and it's just sitting in my freezer, waiting for me to get inspired. Well, it's either going to be corned beef or it will be Texas-style beef brisket (I have an incredible recipe from a friend in Texas).

I prefer corned beef over Texas beef brisket though so I'd much rather do that with this particular piece of meat.

[budrichard]

I corn about 4 whole briskets each year. Lately I have been using Waygu but any good brisket graded Choice or above will do.(I have purchased them graded Choice and the briskets from Prime animals are going somewhere although Brisket is not generally graded I am told)

You will need Saltpeter to keep the color from getting gray(half a teaspoon). Use kosher salt(no iodine) and large two gallon plastic zip bags.

The spicing I use is lots of fresh garlic, black pepper corns, a few cloves, cardamom pods to taste, coriander seed, fenugreek, bay leaves, ceylon cinnaman stick, star anise, mustard seed and whatever else suits my fancy at the time. Leave corn for at least two weeks in you refrigerator keeping the zip bag in another flat container because they will leak during that time. -Dick

Edited November 23, 2006 by budrichard (log)

[Toliver]

You should read "The Great Pastrami/Smoked Meat Experiment, Getting to the bottom of things" discussion for tips. Pastrami starts out as corned beef. Chef Fowke's pastrami blog might help get you on your way.

[ned]

Cabbage for corned beef? Best methods?

[budrichard]

Core cabbage, cut into quarters and put into pot about 1 hour before beef is done. Really very simple.-Dick

[MarkinHouston]

Cabbage for corned beef?  Best methods?

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I'm doing the "World's Best Braised Cabbage" from All About Braising by Molly Stevens. It's been revewed iver on the cookbook forum. Excellent stuff!

[qrn]

Cabbage for corned beef?  Best methods?

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Use the liquid you cooked the beef in , make sure it is salty enough, put it in the pressure cooker for 5 or 6 minutes , along with some small red potatoes.

Bud

[Porthos]

Within the cooking I do for my Rennaisance Faire guild I have a loyal following for my corned beef. I don't do anything extra special. I buy up pre-packaged corned beef when it is on sale and put in in the ol' deep freezer. When I make a batch I cook 3 packages of meat the following way: the thawed meat is put on a rack so that is is barely in contact with the 3 cans of Guiness Stout and a bit of water I use for the cooking liquid. I put in the spice packets that comes with the meat, put the lid on and then slow-cook it (just enough heat to generate steam) overnight. I transport it to the faire site and then cut it up into approx 1 1/2 inch chunks, put it in a foil-covered pan and reheat it and then it is served by a server carrying around a bowl of it and offering it to the already-dining guild members (we serve several things this way each day).

I have had a few of my friends there tell me that they don't like corned beef but they like mine. Since I'm not doing anything that special I've wondered what is different. Here is the potentail ah-ha moment. I was trimming fat and gristle off of the BBQ tri-tip meat that was part of my lunch and I realized that when I cut up the corned beef I trim off the fat. I just don't handle the texture of cooked animal fat and trim it off my ham, beef, whatever and so after cooking I trim it off.

Do any of you think removing the fat is the difference? Or should I continure to ponder (but not too seriously) what makes this method agreeable to my friends (some of whom jokingly bow to me for making the corned beef)?

- - - - - -

My apologies to the Texas section of this forum for starting this thread in the wrong area. Porthos.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Porthos (log)

[savethedeli]

seeing as the fat is where the flavor is, i'd say it isn't the difference. If anything, you're taking taste and moisture away. My guess is the Guiness, but i'm more familiar with Jewish style corned beef and it sounds like you're dealing with the Irish variety boyo.

[Porthos]

...  and it sounds like you're dealing with the Irish variety boyo.

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Yes, I am going after the Irish take on it. The feel of the Faire is supposed to be Elizabethen England circa 1590 more or less. We actually have a separate guild that represents the Irish.

A side note on Jewish-style delis. When I married my sweet wife some 29 years ago there was a truly great deli in Anaheim, CA called Lindel's on Lincoln. They had garlic-cured pickles that were to die for. They've been out of business for over 20 years and my wife and I still mourn it's passing.

[Shel_B]

Anyone have an "authentic" spice blend for making a NYC Style Kosher corned beef, of the type found at Katz's or the Carnagie Deli and other such NYC institutions?

Shel

[Gifted Gourmet]

spices to make corned beef from Penzeys

brown and yellow mustard seeds, coriander, Jamaican allspice, cracked cassia, dill seed, Turkish bay leaves, Zanzibar cloves, China #1 ginger, Tellicherry peppercorns, star anise, juniper, mace, cardamom, red pepper.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Gifted Gourmet (log)

[Shel_B]

spices to make corned beef from Penzeys

brown and yellow mustard seeds, coriander, Jamaican allspice, cracked cassia, dill seed, Turkish bay leaves, Zanzibar cloves, China #1 ginger, Tellicherry peppercorns, star anise, juniper, mace, cardamom, red pepper.

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Yes, I've played with the Penzeys blend, and the results have not been close to a NYC corned beef a la Carnagie deli. Thanks for jumping in.

Shel

[Bueno]

Carnegie, Katz's, etc. have proprietary blends. That's what makes them stand out. If everyone's corned beef tasted the same (or in this case, as good as) Katz's, I'd imagine Katz's would be out of business. That's like asking: does anyone have a recipe for Coca Cola?

[Shel_B]

Carnegie, Katz's, etc. have proprietary blends.  That's what makes them stand out.  If everyone's corned beef tasted the same (or in this case, as good as) Katz's, I'd imagine Katz's would be out of business.  That's like asking: does anyone have a recipe for Coca Cola?

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Many of the NYC delis have their own blends. My old neighborhood deli in Queens had (and still has) their own blend. However, they all have a certain similarity in the way they taste. Your comment suggests that trying to find that elusive commonality, that looking for something more "Jewish" and NYC instead of some gentile-created, one size fits all blend is a waste of time, and that even asking is folly.

There are also a lot of NYC delis that use a "generic" blend for their corned beef, and it tastes quite a bit different than Penzeys or supermarket-purchased CB that has spice packets enclosed with their plastic-wrapped meat. So, I'll keep looking for a NYC-style spice mixture.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

Shel

Edited August 7, 2007 by Shel_B (log)

[Darren72]

Shel_B, since you've made corned beef with the Penzy's blend, perhaps you can tell us *how* it differs from what you are looking for. That might make it easier for us to help you out.

[Shel_B]

Shel_B, since you've made corned beef with the Penzy's blend, perhaps you can tell us *how* it differs from what you are looking for. That might make it easier for us to help you out.

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A lot of the spice blends seem to result in something "sweeter" than traditional NYC corned beef, and lack a certain "depth" of flavor. While I can't say for sure, Penzeys seems to have too many ingredients, or maybe the "wrong" proportions of some ingredients, such as cloves. While I know that cloves are used in some NYC recipes, their effect is far more subtle than what I've experienced in some other spice blends. I'm not convinced that ginger or cassia (if that's cinnamon) are traditional. The sense I get is that NYC-style has fewer ingredients in the spice mixture, and that the meat ages for a longer time in the mixture. There may be certain techniques in addition to the ingredients that give the NYC style it's unique character, and I'm looking to see if I can isolate some of those techniques. I've contacted a few people on the east coast to see what they have to say, but have not heard back from any of them yet.

What surprises me is that you can find "copycat" recipes for so many things, but finding a corned beef (or pastrami) recipe that is comparable to the NYC stuff thus far seems to be more difficult. These recipes and techniques seem to be closely guarded, which is understandable but quite frustrating. I've tracked down a guy in Atlanta who is supposed to serve up a very good NYC style corned beef, but, according to sources, it took him years to come up with a succesful rercipe and technique.

This morning I found out about a place in San Francisco that's supposed to have cracked the code, althoughit was mentioned in the same breath as another place that realloffers a poor imitation of NYC style pastrame (not tried their corned beef). Joyce Goldstein has some connection to this San Francisco place, so I'll try to contact her.

Thanks for jumping in.

Shel

[Preserver]

have no experience in corned beef making at all but i do have the brisket brining in the fridge right now. i am using the alton brown recipe and will go from there. ohh i need to post pics too hehehe Shel B which of the place in SF are you talking bout..?? Dave's..? or is it some other smaller deli's..??

[Darren72]

Thanks for the info on the taste differences. I learned a lot. Here's a group you may want to contact, if you haven't already:

http://www.nycbsa.com/

[Shel_B]

Thanks for the info on the taste differences. I learned a lot. Here's a group you may want to contact, if you haven't already:

http://www.nycbsa.com/

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LOL - they've been on the list for a couple of days. Thanks!

Shel

[Shel_B]

have no experience in corned beef making at all but i do have the brisket brining in the fridge right now. i am using the alton brown recipe and will go from there. ohh i need to post pics too hehehe   Shel B which of the place in SF are you talking bout..??  Dave's..? or is it some other smaller deli's..??

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AB has the right idea about brining and the time the beef needs to "age." I don't recall if he has a specific spice recipe though. I'll have to double check. Thanks!

I'n not familiar with Dave's. These are the two I was referring to:

http://www.themonthly.com/food-02-07.html

I've been to Saul's and, as of the last time I was there, I was not impressed. However, that was more than a year ago and perhaps things have changed, so I plan to check them out again.

Shel

Edited August 7, 2007 by Shel_B (log)

[Preserver]

well here is the recipe.. i believe most if not all of his recipes are very basic... will have to play with it from there on.. but here it is...

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/re...6_36271,00.html

[budrichard]

Fresh garlic and lots of it, coriander(lots) ceylon cassia stick, bay leaves, brown mustard seed, little clove, star anise, fenugreek and cardamon. All subject to my whim of the day. Kosher salt with a little saltpeter to preserve the color. Use a choice cut of brisket at the minimum( a Waygu works great) and put all into a two gal freezer zip lock bag in a Pyrex pan for 2-3 weeks in the fridge. That's about as close as i have come but more importantly, I like it and everyone that has had this mixture likes it also.-Dick

[jaynesb]

There might be some recipes in NYC or Deli Cookbooks:

I used to have this cookbook but gave it away. Almost all of the recipes were mostly meat and soups and from Jewish Delis (Both Kosher and non-Kosher) Not terribly useful for a vegetarian like me and I wasn't ambitious enough for many of the meat recipes.

America's Great Delis: Recipes And Traditions from Coast to Coast (Hardcover)

by Sheryll Bellman

Sheryll Bellman page about the book

jayne

[Bueno]

I suppose that for me anyhow, Katz's is in a league of its own. It doesn't taste like anything else in NYC. Same for Carnegie, though I prefer Katz's. I meant to infer that I don't think they really conform to anything typical. But if what you're looking for is a more solid and straightforward rub that tastes less muddled and more refined, than my recipe might be what you're after. I've tried to recreate Katz's flavour and its pretty close, but as I suggest above, still distinguishable from Katz's. Personally, I don't believe ginger belongs, and I feel the absence of allspice generally lends to a more "NYC" style as well.

5 tablespoons kosher salt

4 tablespoons paprika

3 tablespoons coriander seeds

3 tablespoons brown sugar

2 tablespoons black peppercorns

2 tablespoons yellow mustard seeds

1 tablespoon white peppercorns

8 cloves garlic, minced

Combine coriander seeds, peppercorns and mustard seeds in a spice grinder. Grind coarsely. Add in remaining ingredients and mix well. Rub is now ready to use. It may be stored refrigerated in an airtight container.

One of the key points, I've found, is to REALLY rub the mixture into the meat. I mean really go hardcore. I find this contributes more than anything to getting the flavour I'm pretty sure you're after.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Bueno (log)