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Something that cuts the mustard.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

TLDR - Off on one about mustard 😆

 

I’ve been missing English mustard and whilst the Brit supermarkets in Spain do offer nice little slices of home comfort, when it comes to English mustard that tends to be Colemans or another supermarket brand that contains gluten (which I can’t eat). Plus nowadays the main brands all have paltry amount of actual mustard in them, seeming weaker than ever and they’ve lost their searing appeal. 

 

However they do sell Colemans mustard powder here (gluten freeish) so yesterday I made some mustard. It was very easy and successful, hallelujah I have strong mustard, do a little dance 💃

Nerdy me even did a jar label, ooh geek out 💃💃💃

 

It made me wonder if I could get together a facsimile of the fast disappearing from our shelves French Mustard which my other half loves, can’t say I’m quite so fond but it’s a shame to lose it, it is sometimes good for making sauces. 

 

I’m not meaning Dijon Mustard, I’m talking about the darker ‘French Mustard’. It’s a bit more aromatic, sweeter and you usually can taste a mild range of flavours that are hard to pin down in amongst the more powerful mustard.

 

I’ve been through the ingredients lists of existing French Mustards, here are some of the flavour influencing ingredients that would be in with the usual suspects - 

 

1. Cloves, Pimento, Chilli Blend (Chilli Powder, Cumin, Garlic

Powder, Dried Oregano, Salt), Dried Garlic, Dried Onion.

 

2. turmeric, pimento, tarragon oil.

 

3. Cloves, Pimento, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Chilli Powder, Cumin, Oregano.

Thats in two different brands.

 

4. Turmeric and ‘spices’ 

Also in two different brands. 

 

So looks like pimento is in and either oregano or tarragon but I can’t decide on the rest. Anyone here have a recipe for French Mustard? The net is unable to differentiate between French and Dijon and just floods the results with Dijon mustard which.. doesn't cut the mustard 😆

 

Pic of the bog standard one I’ve been buying that keeps pretending to be in stock but never is. 

 

4D9E8120-C44A-4943-BDF8-2DFEDA615AF8.thumb.jpeg.05e839d1149e3aebe5e2122a25b29864.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have had many mustards in France, and buy French mustard here in the states.

 

None of them have any of those extra flavoring ingredients.  The Brits might think they do, but...I can't help with that.

 

 

 

 

Edited by weinoo (log)
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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

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Margaret Pilgrim

Margaret Pilgrim

Posted
Posted

Waitrose website gives the ingredients of their "Essential mild French mustard" as "Water, mustard flour (13%), spirit vinegar, mustard bran (6%), salt, caramelised sugar syrup, acidity regulator acetic acid, sugar, colour ammonia caramel, cloves, pimento, chilli powder, cumin, garlic powder, dried oregano, salt, garlic powder, onion powder, flavouring".

 

An interesting interpretation of French mustard(s).

eGullet member #80.

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

We have all the classic French mustards and brands by the boatload what with France being our neighbour.

It the flavourings that skew it away from the usual I wanted to nail down. 

Condiments with a twist are hugely popular now.

This is just one from the olden days thats disappearing and I’d rather it didn’t. 

Margaret Pilgrim

Margaret Pilgrim

Posted
Posted

You might consider trying Savora.

Ingredients are somewhat similar to your Waitrose product: Includes: malt vinegar, cayenne pepper, nutmeg, mustard seeds, cinnamon, curcumin, garlic, tarragon, cloves, celery, and thousand-flower honey

ScreenShot2023-03-23at10_07_37AM.thumb.png.9752fcc87268cb5fea8116119413de8b.png

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eGullet member #80.

weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

You might consider trying Savora.

Ingredients are somewhat similar to your Waitrose product: Includes: malt vinegar, cayenne pepper, nutmeg, mustard seeds, cinnamon, curcumin, garlic, tarragon, cloves, celery, and thousand-flower honey

 

I'll note, for the record, that that's not even called mustard.  It's sold on Amazon, and it's called:

 

Savora 11 Spice French Condiment from Amora  (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

Exactly what you see in the post above; but let's not call it French mustard.

 

Well I don’t have problem with it. It’s been called that since they started making it in 1936. Might not be PC now but but what you gonna do, change its name to The mustard that used to be called French Mustard 😆

Edited by Not The Full Shilling (log)
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

I believe Amora who were taken over by Unilever were ordered by the EU to stop producing it because their market share was too large and they must plug other french mustards instead. Don’t know what happened in the end. 

 

Thanks @Margaret Pilgrim Ill have a look. 

 

 

Katie Meadow

Katie Meadow

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Not The Full Shilling said:

I believe Amora who were taken over by Unilever were ordered by the EU to stop producing it because their market share was too large and they must plug other french mustards instead. Don’t know what happened in the end. 

 

Thanks @Margaret Pilgrim Ill have a look. 

 

 

My husband says that his favorite mustard when he lived in France was Amora. I never heard of it and don't recall him ever talking about it, but when I mentioned it to him he waxed poetic. He shopped today and didn't see it. So tell me, @Margaret Pilgrim, where do you get it around these parts? Amazon sells a small jar for $19! Maybe for an xmas present....

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Amy D.

Amy D.

Posted
Posted

Sorry have no suggestions for recipes other than just have a play with the spices and keep adjusting until you are happy.

But wow just the mention of French mustard takes me back to eating out in pubs in 90's early 00's with those little sachets of French mustard.  Haven't seen it in a while but then I tend to shop in Aldi or lidl so a more limited range. 

It definitely has its own distinctive sweeter flavour. Nothing like say Dijon but then it doesn't pretend to be. Some times foods in the past were labelled after the country of inspiration or general flavour profile.  

 

 

Margaret Pilgrim

Margaret Pilgrim

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Katie Meadow said:

@Margaret Pilgrim, where do you get it around these parts? Amazon sells a small jar for $19!

I don't see it featured locally (Bay Area).    I've been bringing it home from France.    In mayonnaise size jars.    Also in the character jars for the grand-kids.   

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eGullet member #80.

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Amy D. said:

Sorry have no suggestions for recipes other than just have a play with the spices and keep adjusting until you are happy.

But wow just the mention of French mustard takes me back to eating out in pubs in 90's early 00's with those little sachets of French mustard.  Haven't seen it in a while but then I tend to shop in Aldi or lidl so a more limited range. 

It definitely has its own distinctive sweeter flavour. Nothing like say Dijon but then it doesn't pretend to be. Some times foods in the past were labelled after the country of inspiration or general flavour profile.  

 

 

 

Yep you totally nailed it a bit like when you drink ‘English breakfast tea’ in some countries and they’ve had a go at it but.. and you know the rest 😆

 

Pubs always offered English and French mustard especially with steak. I think thats where my husbands love of it comes from! 😂

Anna N

Anna N

Posted
Posted

This explains a lot! From Wikipedia. 

"French" mustard is a dark brown, mild, tangy and sweet mustard, that, despite its name, is not actually French in origin. French mustard is particular to the UK and was invented by Colman's in 1936.[34] It became a popular accompaniment to steak in particular. Colman's ceased production of French mustard in 2001 after Unilever, which now owns Colman's, were ordered to stop selling it by the EU, following its takeover of rival mustard-maker Amora–Maille in 2000.[35] Many British supermarkets still offer their own version of French mustard.

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sounds like Colmans invented Savora for the French market. Described on French food supply websites as -

 

‘Seasoned with a blend of 11 spices and herbs, Savora Mustard is an iconic French condiment, actually invented in England by mustard powerhouse, Colman's, back in 1899, inspired by the flavors of India, a culinary heritage so intertwined with that of the British Empire.’

 

So THANKS to @Margaret Pilgrim for making the connection 😊

 

Still will be easier, faster and cheaper to mix it up myself.

 

The English mustard I made was so easy and turned out so well I’m looking forward to the challenge of recreating something more complicated. 

Edited by Not The Full Shilling (log)
Guest

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Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Anna N said:

This explains a lot! From Wikipedia. 

"French" mustard is a dark brown, mild, tangy and sweet mustard, that, despite its name, is not actually French in origin. French mustard is particular to the UK and was invented by Colman's in 1936.[34] It became a popular accompaniment to steak in particular. Colman's ceased production of French mustard in 2001 after Unilever, which now owns Colman's, were ordered to stop selling it by the EU, following its takeover of rival mustard-maker Amora–Maille in 2000.[35] Many British supermarkets still offer their own version of French mustard.

 Yes it’s weird they came up with the original blend for the French market under the Savora name in 1899 and obviously decided a Brit might like it over 30 years later (ooh exotic 😆). 

 

Thing is you can still buy Colemans French Mustard in food wholesalers so I’m not sure what happened there. 

Anna N

Anna N

Posted
Posted

The point is whatever the Brits may call it, and I'm a Brit so don't bother taking me down, the French mustard you reference is not French at all. Here's more on "French" mustard. 

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Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Anna N said:

The point is whatever the Brits may call it, and I'm a Brit so don't bother taking me down, the French mustard you reference is not French at all. Here's more on "French" mustard. 

 

Eh?

 

I was just talking about the origins of a mustard and enjoying some chat about mustard. I thought you were too. I don’t want to take anyone down. 

 

I was as per the original post hoping for some tips or recipes on recreating a particular type of mustard. 

 

Chill 😎 

 

Let’s stay on topic. 

scott123

scott123

Posted
Posted

"Water, mustard flour (13%), spirit vinegar, mustard bran (6%), salt, caramelised sugar syrup, acidity regulator acetic acid, sugar, colour ammonia caramel, cloves, pimento, chilli powder, cumin, garlic powder, dried oregano, salt, garlic powder, onion powder, flavouring"

The nutritional label will go a fairly long way to reverse engineer this.  The sugar content will give you a rough idea how much caramelized sugar/sugar is in it.  A little cloves goes a really long way.   Based on this, I have a strong suspicion that everything from cloves through salt is very close to the same weight.  Take the sodium, convert that to salt (by weight) and use that weight for the cloves, pimento, chilli powder, cumin, garlic powder and dried oregano. I might even match the onion powder weight to that as well.  The 'flavouring' could very well be MSG, although I don't know UK regulations on that.  You could contact the company and tell them you have an MSG sensitivity and ask if it contains MSG.

You might be able to approximate mustard bran by grinding some actual mustard seeds.

 

 

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Margaret Pilgrim

Margaret Pilgrim

Posted
Posted

The point we're ignoring is that it is not NTFS who called this condiment "French mustard" but Waitrose.    Like French vanilla or French custard on ice cream labels, it is the manufacturer's nomenclature rather than a universally or even culturally agreed upon definition.

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Guest

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Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, scott123 said:

"Water, mustard flour (13%), spirit vinegar, mustard bran (6%), salt, caramelised sugar syrup, acidity regulator acetic acid, sugar, colour ammonia caramel, cloves, pimento, chilli powder, cumin, garlic powder, dried oregano, salt, garlic powder, onion powder, flavouring"

The nutritional label will go a fairly long way to reverse engineer this.  The sugar content will give you a rough idea how much caramelized sugar/sugar is in it.  A little cloves goes a really long way.   Based on this, I have a strong suspicion that everything from cloves through salt is very close to the same weight.  Take the sodium, convert that to salt (by weight) and use that weight for the cloves, pimento, chilli powder, cumin, garlic powder and dried oregano. I might even match the onion powder weight to that as well.  The 'flavouring' could very well be MSG, although I don't know UK regulations on that.  You could contact the company and tell them you have an MSG sensitivity and ask if it contains MSG.

You might be able to approximate mustard bran by grinding some actual mustard seeds.

 

 

 

Nice advice thankyou 🙏 

 

They must by law label it. 

 

Well thats not strictly true - by EU law they must label it, so in theory the UK the labelling laws are in the air but if they ever export anything (which they all do) they must 😆

 

I was also thinking a pinch of everything except clove. I was thinking of omitting the clove as it’s such a strong flavour but I also think the fruitier aromatic note may come partly from that. 

 

FeChef

FeChef

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Not The Full Shilling said:

The mustard that used to be called French Mustard

The condiment that used to be called French Mustard.

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