Troubleshooting Tempering

[Kerry Beal]

  On 4/22/2021 at 12:40 AM, Jim D. said:

 

Thank you for that insight.  It's difficult to make yourself stop in the middle of making shells and test for temper, but it appears to be necessary.  Do you know of any discussion or any scientific papers about overtempering that deal with this problem?  I have also noticed that sometimes shells, when they are cooling in the fridge, acquire a dusty look.  Could this be a sign of overtempering?  They usually come out of the mold without a problem, but it looks suspicious.

Expand  

Dusty inside is under tempered IMHO and they often contract beautifully and come out of the mold really easily because of all that contraction going from form IV to V. 

 

No sure about any papers. 

[keychris]

  On 4/20/2021 at 6:57 AM, Altay.Oro said:

 

Ok no lamp saying that the chocolate is now in perfectly tempered state and ready to use 🙂 we need to manually test the temper 👍

Do we need to adjust the temperature occasionally to prevent overtempering?

For example ... if I start the machine in the morning, can I use the tempered chocolate all along the day without any intervention?

 

Expand  

 

the big automatic tempering machines like a Selmi hold the chocolate in the tank at 45C (or whatever you set it at). The chocolate that comes out the spout has been cooled to 32C (or whatever you set it to) and it's perfectly tempered (or should be). But once it's back in the big tank, it's back up to 45C and uncrystallised. So you can *get* tempered chocolate whenever you need it, but it's not held in temper all the time. 

[joe candy]

KeyChoc Infinity AX and BX automated tempering machines operate a little different.

The bowl / tank melting temperature setpoint (42C to 45C) is only when the machine is not in temper mode. When you initiate tempering it will lower the working bowl / tank temperature to about 3 degrees above the working setpoint temperature.

It will not try to decrystallize the working bowl / tank while in tempering mode. 

So, after while your chocolate will start to visibly thicken which is basically overseeding.

[Rajala]

What would you say is a normal amount of time it will take to temper 1 kg with the seeding method?

[Kerry Beal]

  On 6/6/2021 at 7:26 PM, Rajala said:

What would you say is a normal amount of time it will take to temper 1 kg with the seeding method?

Expand  

I'd say 20 minutes or so. 

[pastrygirl]

  On 4/23/2021 at 5:29 AM, keychris said:

the big automatic tempering machines like a Selmi hold the chocolate in the tank at 45C (or whatever you set it at). The chocolate that comes out the spout has been cooled to 32C (or whatever you set it to) and it's perfectly tempered (or should be).

Expand  

 

So since the Selmi cools before dispensing, in theory it could give me chocolate cooled to below room temp?  If it's 95F in my kitchen, it could dispense chocolate at 88?  I'd have to put it directly in the fridge, but hmmm ...

[Kerry Beal]

  On 6/7/2021 at 8:13 PM, pastrygirl said:

 

So since the Selmi cools before dispensing, in theory it could give me chocolate cooled to below room temp?  If it's 95F in my kitchen, it could dispense chocolate at 88?  I'd have to put it directly in the fridge, but hmmm ...

Expand  

It has a compressor in it to cool - so yes.

[cc.canuck]

  On 6/7/2021 at 12:59 AM, Kerry Beal said:

I'd say 20 minutes or so. 

Expand  

It takes me so much longer than this - I'm wondering if that's a part of my results being so hit and miss. What kind of bowl are you using and are you placing it on top of a bowl filled with ice to cool it down? I'm using glass and just sitting it onto a cloth.

[Kerry Beal]

Find me here - it's a free 4 day pass where you can watch all the demos.  I demo tempering dark and milk on a slab, by seeding and of course with the EZtemper. I also do a demo on tempering Ruby by the same 3 methods. You'll be able to see the bowl I use.

 

I prefer plastic these days - glass really hangs on to the heat. 

 

I tend not to use cold water or ice under the bowl anymore. 

[cc.canuck]

  On 6/8/2021 at 12:10 PM, Kerry Beal said:

Find me here - it's a free 4 day pass where you can watch all the demos.  I demo tempering dark and milk on a slab, by seeding and of course with the EZtemper. I also do a demo on tempering Ruby by the same 3 methods. You'll be able to see the bowl I use.

 

I prefer plastic these days - glass really hangs on to the heat. 

 

I tend not to use cold water or ice under the bowl anymore. 

Expand  

Brilliant, thank you for that 😁

[Siobhan]

  On 4/13/2003 at 5:47 AM, mjc said:

The way I temper chocolate is to first melt it to somewhere between 115 and 120 degrees F. I've found this to be the most important step. If you bring the temperature of the chocolate to high you will not be able to achieve a good temper. Different chocolates have different maximum temperatures, so if you are having problems, this may be one area to investigate.

After you have melted the chocolate and brought it to the right temperature you then cool it down. You want to bring it down to around 80 degrees, but again this can vary slightly with the chocolate you are using. There are different methods you can use to cool, the chocolate. I use the Tabliering method and pour about 1/2 of the chocolate on a marble slab, where I spread it with a spatula to cool, and then add it back to the bowl. Then combine the cooled chocolate with the warmer chocolate in the bowl. You should now have achieved that approx 80 degree temp. But now of course the chocolate will be to think to work with, so you have to carefully rewarm it to around 90 (also varies slightly). To rewarm it, I usually just put it back over the water bath that I used originially to melt my chocolate, but have been off the heat for awhile. It is important at this stage I believe not to get the chocolate too hot.

I'm not a professional, but this is the method that works best for me. I usually achieve a very good temper. When I don't, I find that I have accidently warmed the chocolate too much.

Hope this helps.

Expand  

What happens if the chcoclate u were tableing makes the chcoclate in the bowl too cold when you add it back in?

Also another question Im assuming if you add it back and its too warm still you just pour some oout again till it reaches tempetature,am I correct in that at do you think/thanks

[Kerry Beal]

  On 8/12/2021 at 11:49 AM, Siobhan said:

What happens if the chcoclate u were tableing makes the chcoclate in the bowl too cold when you add it back in?

Also another question Im assuming if you add it back and its too warm still you just pour some oout again till it reaches tempetature,am I correct in that at do you think/thanks

Expand  

Heat it with a microwave or hairdryer back to the working temperature.  If too warm - yes - pour some out, work it again and add it back in.

 

[jedovaty]

Hi:  I temper chocolate with homemade "silk".  I've found I have to rapidly cool the chocolate to prevent blooming as well as loss of temper, i.e. put it in the fridge for 30-60 minutes.  I'm using the fancy pricey GP-610 tomric molds, filling each bar with ~50g dark chocolate.

 

Blooming always occurs if I let it set slowly at room temp, which ranges 60-75F.  Does this sound right, or am I potentially doing something wrong?

 

I'm asking this question to help me troubleshoot another issue (which I'll bring up later if needed, trying to figure things out on my own ;))

 

PS: fwiw, this is a hobby, I make a few bars every couple months for fun to taste varieties of cacao I roast.  Not a commercial operation.

[Kerry Beal]

Yup - you need the cooling part or the latent heat of crystallization will learn ya!

[jedovaty]

Thanks KB, happy to know I was on the right track there.  I'll post new thread later after one more test, although, I suspect the issue is still tempering related.

[kstone2016]

I need some help troubleshooting my tempering. I recently got a sous vide to temper my cocoa butter. I made a batch of (what I thought was) tempered cocoa butter... The consistency was pretty thick like mayonnaise, but there were some tiny lumps left. I went ahead and let it set up on parchment paper for a day and then I grated it into a bowl (2% of the total weigh of the chocolate). I heated up my semi sweet chocolate (Callebaut) to about 103F and let it cool to 95F before adding the grated cocoa butter. I stirred it for about a minute and then put a small amount on parchment paper in the fridge for 5 minutes. It left residue on the parchment and didn't have a clean snap. When I let it set up it also bloomed. 

 

I am wondering if anyone who tempers their cocoa butter with a sous vide can show me a picture of what it looks like when it is right? What temperature to you leave it at? I used 92.4F for 24 hours. Also is there a way to check that the cocoa butter is tempered?

 

Suppose my cocoa butter was tempered right, is there any trick to seeding the chocolate? I used to temper in the microwave by not going over 95F but it was very tedious...

[pastrygirl]

  On 9/29/2022 at 8:40 PM, kstone2016 said:

let it cool to 95F before adding the grated cocoa butter. I stirred it for about a minute and then put a small amount on parchment paper in the fridge for 5 minutes.

Expand  

 

What temp was it after the minute of stirring?  95 may have been too warm and melted the CB bits too quickly, not leaving enough stable crystals once the chocolate cooled below 90.  Also, I think temper tests at room temp are more telling.  Lots of things will solidify in the fridge.

[Jim D.]

  On 9/29/2022 at 8:40 PM, kstone2016 said:

I need some help troubleshooting my tempering. I recently got a sous vide to temper my cocoa butter. I made a batch of (what I thought was) tempered cocoa butter... The consistency was pretty thick like mayonnaise, but there were some tiny lumps left. I went ahead and let it set up on parchment paper for a day and then I grated it into a bowl (2% of the total weigh of the chocolate). I heated up my semi sweet chocolate (Callebaut) to about 103F and let it cool to 95F before adding the grated cocoa butter. I stirred it for about a minute and then put a small amount on parchment paper in the fridge for 5 minutes. It left residue on the parchment and didn't have a clean snap. When I let it set up it also bloomed. 

 

I am wondering if anyone who tempers their cocoa butter with a sous vide can show me a picture of what it looks like when it is right? What temperature to you leave it at? I used 92.4F for 24 hours. Also is there a way to check that the cocoa butter is tempered?

 

Suppose my cocoa butter was tempered right, is there any trick to seeding the chocolate? I used to temper in the microwave by not going over 95F but it was very tedious...

Expand  

 

Without getting into your questions about the cocoa butter, I think it's important to know that you should not put chocolate in the refrigerator to test for temper.  Any chocolate will harden in the fridge; that does not mean it is correctly precrystallized.  You can spread a bit on parchment, then wait for a few minutes at room temp (milk and white take longer) to see what it looks like.  If it turns from glossy to matte in appearance in a few minutes, you will know you are on the right track.

[Kerry Beal]

  On 9/29/2022 at 8:40 PM, kstone2016 said:

I need some help troubleshooting my tempering. I recently got a sous vide to temper my cocoa butter. I made a batch of (what I thought was) tempered cocoa butter... The consistency was pretty thick like mayonnaise, but there were some tiny lumps left. I went ahead and let it set up on parchment paper for a day and then I grated it into a bowl (2% of the total weigh of the chocolate). I heated up my semi sweet chocolate (Callebaut) to about 103F and let it cool to 95F before adding the grated cocoa butter. I stirred it for about a minute and then put a small amount on parchment paper in the fridge for 5 minutes. It left residue on the parchment and didn't have a clean snap. When I let it set up it also bloomed. 

 

I am wondering if anyone who tempers their cocoa butter with a sous vide can show me a picture of what it looks like when it is right? What temperature to you leave it at? I used 92.4F for 24 hours. Also is there a way to check that the cocoa butter is tempered?

 

Suppose my cocoa butter was tempered right, is there any trick to seeding the chocolate? I used to temper in the microwave by not going over 95F but it was very tedious...

Expand  

Thick like mayonnaise with little lumps might well be old cocoa butter with form VI conversion. 

 

And what @pastrygirl and @Jim D. said about refrigeration for a temper test.

 

 

[kstone2016]

  On 9/30/2022 at 12:01 AM, pastrygirl said:

 

What temp was it after the minute of stirring?  95 may have been too warm and melted the CB bits too quickly, not leaving enough stable crystals once the chocolate cooled below 90.  Also, I think temper tests at room temp are more telling.  Lots of things will solidify in the fridge.

Expand  

It was 92 degrees after the minute of stirring. That’s about where it should be right?

[kstone2016]

  On 9/30/2022 at 12:02 AM, Jim D. said:

 

Without getting into your questions about the cocoa butter, I think it's important to know that you should not put chocolate in the refrigerator to test for temper.  Any chocolate will harden in the fridge; that does not mean it is correctly precrystallized.  You can spread a bit on parchment, then wait for a few minutes at room temp (milk and white take longer) to see what it looks like.  If it turns from glossy to matte in appearance in a few minutes, you will know you are on the right track.

Expand  

I will definitely give this a try next time I mess around it with  thanks!

[kstone2016]

  On 9/30/2022 at 2:48 AM, Kerry Beal said:

Thick like mayonnaise with little lumps might well be old cocoa butter with form VI conversion.

 

Expand  

Is there anything that can be done about this?

[Kerry Beal]

  On 10/5/2022 at 8:40 PM, kstone2016 said:

Is there anything that can be done about this?

Expand  

Melt it out to around 60º C. Let cool at room temperature until totally solidified again. You can then put back in your sous vide. If it still has these little chunks after that - it may just be too old to be rehabilitated. 

[pastrygirl]

  On 10/5/2022 at 8:38 PM, kstone2016 said:

It was 92 degrees after the minute of stirring. That’s about where it should be right?

Expand  

92 is high

 

the general rule is

85-88 white

86-89 milk

87-90 dark

[TheLastOfUs]

  On 10/5/2022 at 11:39 PM, Kerry Beal said:

Melt it out to around 60º C. Let cool at room temperature until totally solidified again. You can then put back in your sous vide. If it still has these little chunks after that - it may just be too old to be rehabilitated. 

Expand  

 

Hi Kerry

 

What about when you put the molds in the fridge for "latent heat of crystallization." Why would testing temper in a fridge be bad, when molded chocolate can go into a fridge for 15 minutes, etc. as I recall from your past posts?

 

The biggest issue I have as someone without a fancy chocolate tempering machine is while I'm waiting for the chocolate (mostly milk) to set up - the batch gets too cool........how does one manage this? It's always such a struggle.

 

Thank you for the clarification in advance

Edited October 11, 2022 by TheLastOfUs (log)