Using commercial stabilizer in home made ice cream

[ElsieD]

I recently purchased some commercial ice cream stabilizer called Avacream made by Avalon Chemixals, Inc.  The ingredients are guar gum, monounsaturated dyglycerides and carrageenan.   I bought this mainly as a curiosity as I wanted to experience the effect it has on home made ice cream.  My freezer is a Cuisinart ICE100, and has a built-in compressor.  I used the stabilizer for the first time this week when making some  salted caramel ice cream.  I used 3 grams for a recipe that makes about a quart.  The resulting ice cream had a different texture than usual, it was creamier but almost too much so.  It also seemed to me that it melted faster than ice cream made without it.  I am not sure if I used the correct amount - I am making a vanilla bean ice cream next and will try 2 grams of the stabilizer.  Does anyone else use an ice cream stabilizer?  If so, what has been your experience using it?

Edited March 30, 2019 by ElsieD
Changed "it" to "stabilizer" for clarity.ò (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I have never used a commercial stabilizer but I am about to try an ice cream experiment.  I am fond of Modernist pistachio gelato which includes locust bean gum, lambda carrageenan, polysorbate 80, and glycerol monostearate.

 

The plan is to make the recipe substituting heavy cream for the called for water and pistachio oil.  I too suffer a Cuisinart ICE-100 since my budget does not permit a Pacojet.  And actually, considering the price, the Cuisinart is rather nice as long as you don't spin for more than fifteen minutes.

 

[ElsieD]

15 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I have never used a commercial stabilizer but I am about to try an ice cream experiment.  I am fond of Modernist pistachio gelato which includes locust bean gum, lambda carrageenan, polysorbate 80, and glycerol monostearate.

 

The plan is to make the recipe substituting heavy cream for the called for water and pistachio oil.  I too suffer a Cuisinart ICE-100 since my budget does not permit a Pacojet.  And actually, considering the price, the Cuisinart is rather nice as long as you don't spin for more than fifteen minutes.

 

 

What I do, to keep the thing going and not stop after 15 minutes is weight the "arm" down with my 12" Lodge Cast Iron skillet which is further weighed down by a 796ml can of tomatoes.  I discovered my smaller CI isn't heavy enough, and it and the tomatoes fall off before it's done churning.  I sort of have my eye on the new Breville.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

What I do, to keep the thing going and not stop after 15 minutes is weight the "arm" down with my 12" Lodge Cast Iron skillet which is further weighed down by a 796ml can of tomatoes.  I discovered my smaller CI isn't heavy enough, and it and the tomatoes fall off before it's done churning.  I sort of have my eye on the new Breville.  

 

My mind cannot process this.  What is an arm in context?

 

I stop at 15 minutes because beyond 15 minutes in the ICE-100 iciness and overrun increase.

 

[ElsieD]

38 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

My mind cannot process this.  What is an arm in context?

 

I stop at 15 minutes because beyond 15 minutes in the ICE-100 iciness and overrun increase.

 

 

This thing.  I call it the arm because I don't know the correct term.  I have an older model, the newer ones don't have these.  I tried to find the user manual to find the correct term but it seems to have disappeared.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

54 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

 

This thing.  I call it the arm because I don't know the correct term.  I have an older model, the newer ones don't have these.  I tried to find the user manual to find the correct term but it seems to have disappeared.

 

We must have different machines.  Is yours an ICE-50?

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My mix is made.  I have no high hopes for the experiment.  Please note this ice cream was inspired by MC modernist gelato:

 

Heavy Cream 520 g

Pistachio Paste 140 g

Sugar 100 g

Salt 4 g

Locust Bean Gum 2 g

Lambda Carrageenan 1.3 g

Polysorbate 80 0.5 g

Glycerol Monostearate 0.1 g

 

All ingredients were heated to 65C and homogenized.  Then cooled in an ice bath before refrigerating.  As always the polysorbate 80 was almost impossible to add since my three mg scales measure only up to 100 g.  What I did was tare an aliquot of cream and into it dispense the 0.5 g of polysorbate 80.  With more cream I rinsed the iSi silicone cup (red, if anyone is reading) into the pot.  There must be an optimal way to work with polysorbate 80 but I have not found it yet.

 

Why I have few hopes is that my ultra-pasteurized Shoprite heavy cream "may contain" carrageenan, polysorbate 80, and stuff.*  I suspect a double dose of hydrocolloids.  I have no equipment for measuring viscosity but my homogenizer was straining at its limits.  Not at all like making simple modernist gelato.  I'd describe the mix consistency as "pudding-like".  The morrow will see how well it spins.  Wish me luck.  I'll probably eat it anyway.

 

 

*and probably does.

 

 

[ElsieD]

16 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

We must have different machines.  Is yours an ICE-50?

 

 

I stand corrected.  Turned the thing over to find the model number and it is indeed the ICE-50.  I am torn between buying the new the Breville or the Cuisinart.  The Cuisinart would be the one you have - are you happy with it?  I just spent some time reading the reviews on Amazon for both machines and neither inspire confidence.  I have a few Breville items and for the most part am happy with them.  I think the CSO is the only other Cuisinart item I have and I absolutely love it.  (Thank you, eGullet enablers!) I do know I am tired of having to weigh the motor arm down to get it to work.  Not to mention, I have had to buy two new lids due to the way the arm fits into it.  The little plastic arm  holders snap right off. 

 

Good luck with your ice cream.  Hope it turns out.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The most useful and comprehensive ice cream maker reviews I have seen are by @Ruben Porto posted on his Ice Cream Science site:

 

http://icecreamscience.com/category/ice-cream-makers/

 

Currently I don't make ice cream a lot but I continue to enjoy the Cuisinart ICE-100.  If I'm actually making ice cream without playing with alien technology I use a modified version* of Ruben's method.  See many posts in:

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/144208-home-made-ice-cream-2013–/

 

 

Can you tell I'm procrastinating?

 

 

 

*called KitchenAid Precise Heat Mixing Bowl.

 

[teonzo]

13 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

There must be an optimal way to work with polysorbate 80 but I have not found it yet.

 

You can weigh the salt in a little cup, then pour the polysorbate on it. 4 g of salt should be enough to absorb the polysorbate and prevent it from touching the cup. If it's not enough, then use a part of the sugar (I suppose it's granulated sucrose).

 

Don't worry, your ice cream will taste good.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 minutes ago, teonzo said:

 

You can weigh the salt in a little cup, then pour the polysorbate on it. 4 g of salt should be enough to absorb the polysorbate and prevent it from touching the cup. If it's not enough, then use a part of the sugar (I suppose it's granulated sucrose).

 

Don't worry, your ice cream will taste good.

 

 

 

Teo

 

 

Teo, thanks!  Using salt or sugar sounds like the solution to the problem!

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The stabilizer experiment did not go well.  The overnight chilled mix was the consistency of tapioca pudding (albeit without the little eyes).  It would not pour from the pot.  Because the viscosity was so high the bottom was slightly burned.  And uncharacteristically I did not find it sweet enough.

 

Anyhow I carried on.  The spun (if I may call it that) batch is hardening as we speak.

 

[ElsieD]

@JoNorvelleWalker  Thank you very much for those links.  I read the reviews on the  the Ruben Porto site and he prefers the Cuisinart over the Breville.  Thank you too for the other link which you started which I will read as well.  I have only ever made custard based ice cream and the only recipes that presented me with rock hard unscoopable ice cream were ones made with 5 or fewer egg yolks.  I now always use 6.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, ElsieD said:

I now always use 6.

 

I'm a six yolk girl, myself.

 

But as I recall @paulraphael does a lot of work with stabilizers.

 

[ElsieD]

26 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I'm a six yolk girl, myself.

 

But as I recall @paulraphael does a lot of work with stabilizers.

 

 

Maybe I'll get lucky and he'll chime in.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I know it isn't dinner yet -- but I couldn't help but try a serving:  strange.  Not bad, but strange.  Utterly* creamy smooth.  And this undead ice cream will never melt.  The weirdest thing is that it does not taste cold in the mouth.  Even after five hours in the freezer.  I am not crazy.  The serving bowl feels cold, cold like a bowl of ice cream.

 

So how does it taste?  Better than I would have thought.  The pistachio flavor is muted compared with modernist gelato.  (As I expected because of all the cream.)  However in contrast to my earlier remark about insufficient sweetness, the sugar now seems just right.  As does the salt.

 

The nicest finding is that there is no sensation of any particles on the tongue.  None.  Much of the credit for which goes to my DCM melanger.

 

Be warned, if ever I'm tempted to make this again I would use real cream without any added stabilizers.  Though for another experiment it might be informative to try Shoprite cream again but omitting carrageenan, polysorbate 80, and glycerol monostearate from the recipe.  And maybe cutting the locust bean gum in half.

 

 

*pun unintended

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Update, day later, 24 hours in the freezer:  still udderly smooth, still strange.  Remarkably still no perception of being cold.  It does not melt in the mouth, it eventually dissolves.  Texture is much like peanut butter.  No, that's not quite right.  It's perfectly scoopable, as good in that respect as any ice cream I have made.

 

Taste is muted but pretty good actually.

 

[Avachocolate]

Slightly off topic....no matter what ice cream / gelato recipe or stabilizer you use it will never be the same as in a gelato shop if you use a compressor machine built for home use.

Just does not get cold enough fast enough.

Decent gelato machines for small quantities (around 2.5 kg) start around 2000-3000 USD.

Funny enough though, the super cheap ones (around 30-40 usd) with the bowls that need to be frozen actually make superior ice cream to a Breville /Cuisineart compressor style machine...put the bowl in deep freeze overnight and it will make great ice cream (provided you have a good recipe to begin with) in about 10 minutes (keeps the formation of ice crystals down due to the short time).

Of course it is inconvenient and only makes a small quantity but better quality than the mid-range home machines.

I own a small dessert shop and switched to a small professional gelato machine after trying all other options....quite happy with it, but it was about 10x as much as my Cuisinart....so you get what you pay for...

[Darienne]

6 hours ago, Avachocolate said:

 

Funny enough though, the super cheap ones (around 30-40 usd) with the bowls that need to be frozen actually make superior ice cream to a Breville /Cuisineart compressor style machine...put the bowl in deep freeze overnight and it will make great ice cream (provided you have a good recipe to begin with) in about 10 minutes (keeps the formation of ice crystals down due to the short time).

Of course it is inconvenient and only makes a small quantity but better quality than the mid-range home machines.

I've been following this thread because I am a home-made prolific ice cream maker...husband eats a lot of it and I give it as gifts in our neighborhood.  Make a large amount and many flavors each August for our Annual Dog Weekend.  I have never used stabilizers ...just don't...no real reason...and my little machine, complete with separate bowl to be frozen pre-churning,  I bought second hand years ago.  It's so old that the only words still legible on the front of it are 'Cuisinart' and 'Ice'.   

My point is that I have never had ice crystal problems.  Not once.  (Watch out for the next batch...)  And paulraphael has been my ice cream mentor since Day One.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

12 hours ago, Darienne said:

I've been following this thread because I am a home-made prolific ice cream maker...husband eats a lot of it and I give it as gifts in our neighborhood.  Make a large amount and many flavors each August for our Annual Dog Weekend.  I have never used stabilizers ...just don't...no real reason...and my little machine, complete with separate bowl to be frozen pre-churning,  I bought second hand years ago.  It's so old that the only words still legible on the front of it are 'Cuisinart' and 'Ice'.   

My point is that I have never had ice crystal problems.  Not once.  (Watch out for the next batch...)  And paulraphael has been my ice cream mentor since Day One.  

 

Though you've mentioned many times you use cornstarch in your recipes.  Cornstarch is a stabilizer.

 

[Darienne]

10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Though you've mentioned many times you use cornstarch in your recipes.  Cornstarch is a stabilizer.

 

Thanks @JoNorvelleWalkerfor telling me that.  I did not know.  How very interesting.  I thought I was using it in place of eggs.  On the other hand,  I have no background in either chemistry or cooking and so have only slowly learned how food items work.  

 

Because it was less expensive to make with constarch and because I could have a basically unlimited amount on hand as opposed to eggs so to speak...although that not does explain the use of both half and half and heavy cream...but then why should I make any more sense than anyone else...once I found that recipe using cornstarch, I never looked back and it is my go-to base.  On my own, I would have used simply 3 cups of half and half, but it was Ed, my husband, raised by a French-Canadian Mother, who loves things which are very rich and quite sweet, who insisted that I use half heavy cream.  And actually I don't eat ice cream much at all.  Which is more than you wanted to know.

 

Thanks again.  

[paulraphael]

On 4/4/2019 at 8:40 AM, Darienne said:

Thanks @JoNorvelleWalkerfor telling me that.  I did not know.  How very interesting.  I thought I was using it in place of eggs. 

 

Eggs are also a stabilizer

 

Most of the problems people are describing here are from too much stabilizer. These gums work in tiny quantities.

 

Also keep in mind that ingredients like polysorbate 80 and mono/diglycerides are emulsifiers which serve quite different purposes. If you're using even 1 yolk per liter, you don't need those (although they're generally included in commercial stabilizers, and you may like the effect).

 

I usually use 0.15% stabilizer by weight. If your blend includes emulsifiers, you may need more. 0.5% is lots. Unless you're using a commercial blend that includes neutral ingredients like dextrose or maltodextrin. They sometimes include these to help disperse the gums or to add bulk to make weighing easier. 

 

If you're making a recipe with a whole henhouse full of eggs (looking at you, Jo!) you'll need less stabilizer than with a low- or no-egg recipe. 

 

Here's my stabilizer article.

And on one emulsifiers. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by paulraphael (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Continuing the experiments:

 

Heavy Cream 520 g

Pistachio Paste 140 g

Sugar 100 g

Salt 3 g

Locust Bean Gum 2 g

Lambda Carrageenan 1.3 g

Polysorbate 80 0.5 g

Glycerol Monostearate 0.1 g

 

Same ingredients as last time.  Note that I reduced the salt to 3 g from 4 g; and the heavy cream this time was non-ultra pasteurized, without added emulsifiers and stabilizers.  (And, no, the cream was not from Shoprite.)

 

I heated the mix, minus pistachio paste, to 60C in a bain marie like so...

 

 

 

I added the reserved pistachio paste and homogenized.  Then I cooled the mix in an ice bath and refrigerated.  The viscosity is noticeably less than the previous batch made with Shoprite cream.  I won't know till I've spun and tasted it but I suspect the viscosity is still too high.  At least this time the homogenizer could work through the mix without sounding like it was about to burn out.

 

@paulraphael or anyone, do you have suggestions for how I could adjust the stabilizers?  My ratios are those given for Modernist Pistachio Gelato (designed for water as the liquid, not for cream).

 

https://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/pistachio-gelato-2/

 

 

 

 

[teonzo]

11 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

do you have suggestions for how I could adjust the stabilizers?

 

You can cut them by half. From what I understand the pistachio sorbet by Modernist Cuisine is intended to be processed with a Pacojet, not a standard ice-cream machine. Pacojet allows a much wider balance for ice cream formulations, especially about viscosity. Ice-creams made for restaurant service (plated desserts) call for high quantities of stabilizers, that's because 99% of ice-creams are served as one spoon quenelles (I'm talking top restaurants, which are the ones Modernist Cuisine was aimed for), they must keep their shape for long.

 

Beware you did not keep the correct fat ratio. You are making 2/3 of the recipe you linked. This means you would have 453 g of water and 68 g of pistachio oil. 520 g of cream should have around 182 g of fat (this considering you are using 35% fat cream, which is the standard here, don't know about there in the USA). So you have 114 g fat exceeding, a bit MUCH. You should use 190 g of cream (35% fat) and 330 g water. High viscosity is given by the excessive fat too, not only the stabilizers.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Another failure.  The chilled mix was about as viscous as the last batch.  I didn't bother to try to spin.  As consolation the stuff tastes pretty good.  I shall call it pistachio pudding and be done.

 

Teo, I like fat.  Fat and eggs.  For example, this.

 

And, you know, that pistachio pudding is good stuff.  (Not that I mind enjoying pistachio butter right out of the melanger.)