Boring technical sous vide storage question!

[benjamin163]

Hello, 

I am cooking a whole pork belly sous vide.

I want to portion it up after cooking and place each portion back in a separate vacuum pack afterwards for safe storage.

My question is, should I do the portioning up as soon as I take the pork belly out of the water bath while still hot?

Or should I blast chill the whole belly first, still in the bag, then portion up and re-bag?

I'm wondering which process will be safer.

On the one hand portioning up the belly while it's still hot and then blast chilling the separate bags seems like a good idea.

On the other hand blast chilling the whole thing first so it gets to a safe temp, then portioning up also seems like a good idea.

I'm also wondering what the act of taking the belly out of its original bag does to the extended life of the belly.

I understand that without taking it out of the bag, chilled rapidly I can keep the belly at 5 degrees for roughly a week. Does anyone know how that figure changes if I try either of the two procedures above?

Any help gratefully received 

[Mendel C-k]

why not portion before SV'ing?

[benjamin163]

I'd like to be rid of the excess liquid in the bag. And I want to press the belly which is easier to do as a whole I think.

In short, I want to end up with a bag that is a close to the finished product as possible.

[KennethT]

I think it would be a lot easier to slice cleanly when it is cold.

ETA: how long are you holding it after rebagging? Remember, once you take it out of the original bag used to cook, it is no longer pasteurized. Plus, if you then bag with a chamber vacuum, you must make sure that you keep it very cold so you do not have issues with C. Botulinum. If you want to hold it for an extended time, you can cook whole, then press/chill, then portion, rebag, and then cook to pasteurization at like 60C for a time adequate to pasteurize. Then rapidly chill.

Edited November 18, 2015 by KennethT (log)

[cdh]

You're going to have a hell of a time trying to get bags covered in hot pork grease and juice to want to seal properly.  I'd advise to unbag the whole thing, chill until solid, portion and rebag, then repasteurize.  And make sure to save all of that juice you don't want in your bags... it is full of enough gelatin that if you chill with the juice in the bag, you'll end up with a pork belly in aspic looking thing.

[Steve Irby]

"I want to end up with a bag that is a close to the finished product as possible."

 

 If that is the case portion the belly prior to SV then go straight from the circulator to an ice bath.  It will be the safest and quickest way.  The portions should last for weeks under refrigeration and months (if not years!) frozen.  The belly will not yield a lot of liquid and it is easy enough to address as you use each piece.  Use as small a bag as possible and the vacuum will help to compress each section.   If your really want to prepare the whole belly chill then re-bag/pasteurize. 

[benjamin163]

Thanks for all these answers. Very helpful.

What I've learned is that as soon as I un-bag, the food is no longer pastuerised, so I guess I just have to re-bag which is a faff but if that's the way it is, that's the way it is.

Steve, I tried individual portions but they don't turn out great straight from the bag. It's hard to crisp up the skin and there's enough gelatin to put people off. 

I'm trying to get it so that people can just cut the bag open, flash it under the grill to get some crispiness and that's it.

[KennethT]

OK - now it makes more sense of what you're trying to do. In that case, if you cook the belly whole, rapidly chill when done, and press. You can then remove from the bag, remove all the jelly/rendered fat, then trim to the desired sizes. Each piece should then be resealed in a new, small bag, and then repasteurized. If you repasteurize at 60C, the belly shouldn't give any more liquid, and it shouldn't change shape. Finally, rapidly chill in ice water and store at 34degF or lower for longest possible shelf life.

When reheating, dependign on thickness, just flashing under the grill may not heat it all the way through - so it may be better to instruct people to put the bag in about 130degF water for 20 minutes or so, then remove from the bag, blot the skin dry with a paper towel, then flash under the broiler, or sear in a pan with hot oil (works better than a broiler).

[benjamin163]

Top instructions Kenneth. It's taken me 2 years to get there!

[haresfur]

Is this for commercial or home use? Seems to me you can keep uncooked pork for a week - especially if vacuum sealed and properly refrigerated. Sous vide pasteurization will essentially reset the clock. If you unbag and cut it then it could be exposed to pathogens in the air but only on the outside and if you keep surfaces clean I would think it would be less risk than you get at a butcher. 

 

That being said, what I would do for me, isn't necessarily best practice.

[PedroG]

After sous vide pasteurization, unbagging, cutting and rebagging, surface pasteurization by dunking a few seconds in 80°C water should "reset the clock", so (according to Douglas Baldwin) you can keep it below 5°C for max. 10 days or below 3.3°C for up to 30 days, provided you did not poke into the meat.