Sliced Deli Chicken

[Tatoosh]

I'm looking to recreate the sliced deli chicken "breast" that is often found in club sandwiches and so forth.  I'm pretty sure these are not single breasts unless they are from gargantuan chickens.  So are the processors creating this with transglutaminase?  Is there another approach where I can take to creating these?  I'm overseas where there are lots of chickens but they are a tad smaller.   I want to create a Cajun flavored deli slice, though the "Cajun flavor" is really a secondary consideration.  But white chicken meat, formed into a "loaf" shape and that can be sliced as thin as 2 mm or so without crumbling is the object.

Any info or pointers toward this would be greatly appreciated.   

[gfweb]

I'm not sure how deli chicken is created. There are dark arts practiced by Big Deli.

 

If I wanted to recreate it I think  I'd cook the breast SV at a low temp with spices and salt and then slice thin with a knife.

 

If you want to have a big round slice, as you might get at a deli, I'd use the transglutaminase.

 

But maybe butterflying a couple breasts, seasoning,  and then rolling them up together...overlapping..and then cooking SV would get you a thin slicing whitemeat.

[Tatoosh]

That sounds promising, gfweb!  The SV approach to cooking it sounds good, as does vacuum packing to help "consolidate" it.  The "it" though is definitely a dark art, to be sure.  I'm thinking of curing the breast in a "Cajun" brine, sprinkle more Cajun spice mix (looking at making that myself) and maybe popping for the transglutaminase if forced to.   Finally, a nice low and slow cook, cool it in ice water, and spin up the blade on my slicer.  

Thanks much!

[rotuts]

deli meats like ck and turks to my taste have a lot of water in them.  sliced thin in a sandwich they taste very moist.

 

so if that's what you want, Id inject the largest Breasts you can get, and make sure you remove those tendons completely.

 

then glue-up and wrap then SV.

 

my local store makes various wraps in-store.  the Ck wraps are delicious and come in several flavors  : 'greek'  'italian' etc

 

with appropriate add-ins

 

the white meat chicken is sliced thin and very moist the add-ins make them very tasty.

 

that's not necessarily bad, im sure they do this as even though CkBr's are cheap, water is cheaper.]]

 

BTW  quite some tome ago some one boned out a pork shoulder , added dry italian seasonings, glued it up, rolled it

 

and SV'd it for 'italian cold cuts'  the sliced it, added a seasoning ( home-made ) cube and re-vac'd it for 'italian-subs'

 

any time

 

Id look that up for inspirations,

Edited July 18, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[Tatoosh]

I am trying to source some transglutaminase here in the Philippines.  Not much luck and I'm too far from Manila to haunt any of the restaurant suppliers there.  Guess I will ship some over next month.  

So, should I just flatten the breasts, brine them in a bit of Amesphos for water retention, use the transglutaminase to cement the flattened breasts? Or reverse that and cement before brining?  I may cure them (Instacure #1) as well as the Amesphos and spice in the brine.  

Then Baldwin or ChefSteps for the time and temperature.  I like ChefSteps but worry a  bit since they do not address protein thickness in their guide. For the SV cook, I thought I'd roll the breasts, tie or wrap them and perhaps chill a bit before vacuum packing so they hold their shape.

Does that sound about right for creating my own "deli chicken roll"?

Rotuts, I just got my internet back after days of very slow to non-existent service, will try to find the thread you mentioned.  Thanks!

[Tatoosh]

P.S. - How much of the transglutaminase should I be looking for?  I only need to do a few test rolls - does a few ounces of this go a long ways?  I see 2 ounce and 4 ounce containers for sale on Amazon.  Any recommendations to size and provider? 

[gfweb]

I've nitrate cured chicken breast and wasn't pleased with the texture. Weird springy meat.

 

I think a key to reproducing deli breast is water as Rotuts says, and salt. I looked up the salt content of a product a while back and it was about 1g sodium in a few slices. 

 

Woof!

[GlorifiedRice]

If you have BOARS HEAD in your area, try Boars Head Golden Classic low sodium deli chicken its the BEST.

[Tatoosh]

Thanks, gfweb ... I have not cured poultry yet so will do only a small amount the first time as a taste and texture test.  Was yours served sliced?  I like the idea of curing since it allows for better storage properties.  Black Outs (electrical) are common here and the scheduled ones last 12 hours.  The unscheduled ones are a crap shoot in terms of length.  And food safety is almost non-existent for many food service outlets including schools.  There have been at least three reports of school kids off to the hospital in the Philippines due to bad food or poison used mistakenly in food - including one in the little burg I inhabit.  So my stuff, I take a lot of extra care with, both in sourcing ingredients and in preparation.  

GlorifiedRice, when we arrive back in the States next year, I'll try and find some!  Here in the Philippines you never quite know what will show up.  It would be akin to hitting the lottery for that though.   

[gfweb]

My  cured chicken was not served sliced. Slicing might have mitigated the texture problem.

[MelissaH]

I'm looking to recreate the sliced deli chicken "breast" that is often found in club sandwiches and so forth.  I'm pretty sure these are not single breasts unless they are from gargantuan chickens.  So are the processors creating this with transglutaminase?  Is there another approach where I can take to creating these?  I'm overseas where there are lots of chickens but they are a tad smaller.   I want to create a Cajun flavored deli slice, though the "Cajun flavor" is really a secondary consideration.  But white chicken meat, formed into a "loaf" shape and that can be sliced as thin as 2 mm or so without crumbling is the object.

Any info or pointers toward this would be greatly appreciated.   

I remember catching a "How It's Made" show or something of its ilk, showing how deli chicken was made, when I still had cable TV. They didn't add transglutaminase. Instead, they took chicken breasts and scraped or cut the surface (the details now elude me) and then bound them together somehow. Apparently the scraping or cutting spurs some kind of enzyme action, maybe a naturally-present transglutaminase or similar?, which causes the individual breasts to adhere to each other and become a single unit. Again, this was long enough ago that I can't remember the details, but I wonder if this would give you an opportunity to introduce flavor to the inside of the roll, or if adding spices or even just salt would kill the adhesion.

[btbyrd]

I'm betting this is the clip Melissa is remembering.

 

[rotuts]

Yum !

 

thanks for the clip !

[MelissaH]

I'm betting this is the clip Melissa is remembering.

 

That's the one. I believe I said I'd never eat the stuff again after watching that clip. And I don't think I have. (An aside: what kind of plastic are they using that smoke can penetrate into the meat?)

[gfweb]

Smoke gets out of my SV bags so even food grade plastic is permeable to it.

[Tatoosh]

gfweb - thanks! I noticed that too. When I did SV pastrami and could smell the cherry smoke when I took off the lid of my SV container.   

 

MelissaH & btbyrd - thanks for the video clip!  I watched it a couple of times. Mass production is normally a messy affair and far from what we think of in our kitchens at home or even in most restaurants.  That said, other than not knowing what chemicals are in play, none of it was all that off-putting to me.  Not that I can replicate it.  I can pound the chicken breasts to break them down, or jaccard them as well. Brining and injecting is not a problem, though I don't have stitch pump capability.  

I kind of see the transglutaminase as likely player here.  Along with obtaining some, I will need to research how to use/apply it. I may not be able to create deli chicken exactly, but I think we can get pretty close.  Thanks everyone!

[MelissaH]

I don't think you actually need to add transglutaminase, if you're going to do the pounding and massaging and the like. I believe that the pounding and massaging (as well as possibly the injecting) disrupts some of the cells and releases their contents, which includes enzymes that act similarly to (if are not) transglutaminase. In the clip they talk about "proteins" but remember that all enzymes are proteins! I think I might consider trying physical manipulation on a small scale and see what happens, whether you actually need to add enzymes.

[Indy D]

The 'How its Made' video above discusses how to get the right shape. The salt in the seasonings breaks down a protein called mysoin. Once the mysoin is broken down, it acts like a glue that binds the meat together. The myosin will set when the meat is cooked to around 130-135F (which you need to do at the end of the curing process to kill any remaining bacteria). This is how ground meat creates a nice uniform sausage.

 

No meat glue necessary, just add a lot of salt and roll, weight, or vacuum the meat so that it is in very close contact. You can probably find a recipe for deli style chicken, but you have some serious botulism risks if you are not careful. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by Indy D (log)

[Tatoosh]

The video does make it look like the meat glue may be unnecessary, MelissaH. A good pounding, injection, and a tight wrap seems like all the industry seems to use.  I was thinking of using plastic wrap to form the cylinder and chill so it gets some shape before cooking, but that may effect the transformation of the protein talked about in the video.  

Indy D - I had mentioned curing the chicken earlier, simply to stay on the safe side of C. botulinum and I may well do that.  When I work meat - whether grinding or jaccarding - I give them a hot vinegar wash to kill surface bacteria.  Then a rinse with clean, sanitized water to remove/dilute the vinegar.  

Interestingly enough, Serious Eats recently talked about sous  vide chicken so while it does not directly address the deli aspect, it does definitely talk about temperature ranges and their effect on chicken breast.  You can see their article here

[FeChef]

I'm betting this is the clip Melissa is remembering.

 

Thanks for this.