Unfashionable Dinner

[Jaymes]

Lobster Thermidor.

[Norm Matthews]

Oh my! I just looked in my bookshelf and discovered around half of my cookbooks are from the 60,s   Fondue was big back then. Some of the Cook books I have are by Trader Vic,  Elena Zalenta, James Beard, Julia Child, Jaques Pepin, Amy Vanderbilt of all people, Betty Crocker, Craig Clariborn, Southern Jr. League.  

 

One interesting thing I found was that a cookbook called Famous Brand Name Cookbook is practically useless because all the brand name products don't have the same amounts in a package and /or don't have the same ingredients as they do now.  I have a cookbook that features meals on passenger train passenger dining cars of several RRs that aren't around anymore and I think I have one from Steamships too but I didn't see it just now.

[SylviaLovegren]

 

 

 Interestingly, there was a very chic modern michelin-starred restaurant around the corner offering Cherries Jubilee.

 

For the final dessert, I'd rather not have too much à la minute preparation, so Baked Alaska is tricky.  I generally like to finish with something flashy, though

 

Also, I've heard the name Knickerbocker Glory bouncing around for some time.  Does anybody know what it is?

 

Some of the once fashionable things are pretty good -- like Cherries Jubilee.  Why not bring them back?  

 

A Knickerbocker Glory seems to be an exotic ice cream sundae in England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knickerbocker_glory .  I'd never heard of it but we were at a dinner party hosted by a British couple the other day and we were served an ice cream sundae in a tall glass -- layers of meringue, berries, jelly, and whipped cream.  Very festive and old-fashioned.  So maybe the Brits have a thing for sundaes.  

[Lisa Shock]

I'd say go with Sylvia all the way. I totally agree with Green Beans Amandine I was going to put that in my post and somehow got distracted.

 

The only other cookbook I'd recommend in addition to Sylvia's is The Pyromaniac's Cookbook, 1968. (copies on amazon are too expensive, check eBay) Ignore the modern re-issue.

 

I also saw something about claret jelly online, with notes of its heyday being the 1930s, in the UK. Dunno if any European eG members have memories of this, I have no idea if it's appropriate.

 

And yes, tomato aspic is simply tomato juice (back in the day from a can) or V8 and gelatine. Sometimes it was doctored up with hot sauce or celery or celery salt or just anything people used for Bloody Marys, including clam juice. Use the fancy individual portion sized gelatin molds for it. Or, make one large mold, but, use a extra fancy type. I always liked it, but, I think I am in the minority. It has a texture that's odd. So, maybe not.

[huiray]

Cherries Jubilee were being served without any ironical or "please excuse this" notice at a dinner celebrating "cherries" at a dinner at Recess in Indy not that long ago.  I doubt it is a completely "outre" dish in any place on either side of the Pond.

[huiray]

To the OP: 

 

When is this intended meal?  You say you are open to any sort of dish but the impression still continues that it is to be a Western European/USAmerican meal - is this true?

[Lisa Shock]

To the OP: 

 

When is this intended meal?  You say you are open to any sort of dish but the impression still continues that it is to be a Western European/USAmerican meal - is this true?

 That's a good question.

I would like to point out that, at least in the US, we made really terrible imitation world foods until some good Chinese, Japanese, and Indian, etc. cookbooks started to be published here in the late 60s and early 70s. The Time/Life books helped, too.

 

You could make a dinner entirely out of the bad old 'Chinese' foods from old cookbooks. (of course, you'll need to find someone who collects bad old cookbooks...   ) Or make a meal from one of the old Trader Vic cookbooks.

[Jaymes]

I remember Harvey Wallbanger cake showing up at just about every dinner party I went to for a while there.

[liuzhou]

 

A Knickerbocker Glory seems to be an exotic ice cream sundae in England http://en.wikipedia....kerbocker_glory . I'd never heard of it but we were at a dinner party hosted by a British couple the other day and we were served an ice cream sundae in a tall glass -- layers of meringue, berries, jelly, and whipped cream. Very festive and old-fashioned. So maybe the Brits have a thing for sundaes.  

 

When I was a kid growing up in Britain in the 60s, a Knickerbocker Glory was the height of sophistication.. It was the most expensive item on the ice cream/dessert menu. There were also various sundaes and the more affordable Banana Split, but they paled in comparison.

 

My tastes must have changed ( I like to thing improved.) I wouldn't want to eat one today.

[jmacnaughtan]

To the OP: 

 

When is this intended meal?  You say you are open to any sort of dish but the impression still continues that it is to be a Western European/USAmerican meal - is this true?

 

True, I'm leaning heavily towards Western Europe, mainly because I'm not familiar (and I don't think my guests would be either) with, say, Chinese dishes which are no longer trendy.  Also, my cooking style and skill set leans towards classic French.

 

With that in mind, the best bet would be dishes that would not look out of place on the dinner table of a socially aspiring household circa 1940-1970 in the UK or USA- many French influences, but also a serious amount of fad cookery.

 

Thanks for the information about the Knickerbocker Glory.  With a name like that, it's a shame that it's just a sundae.

 

And kudos for lobster thermidor.  If only I had the oven space and the money to splash out on half a dozen lobsters (they're ridiculously expensive here)...

 

 

I remember Harvey Wallbanger cake showing up at just about every dinner party I went to for a while there.

 

 

Tell me more about this cake...

Edited September 26, 2014 by jmacnaughtan (log)

[djyee100]

I've decided that I'm going to host an unfashionable dinner party, replete with forgotten (but good) hits from the fifties, sixties and seventies.  Unfortunately, I have no first-hand experience of this era...

 

You're making me feel old, James.

 

When I read the posts here, I'm reminded of how heavy these retro foods are. That says something about why they are disfavored now.

 

Vol-au-vent, usually filled with creamy something, followed by beef stroganoff with sour cream sauce sounds a bit much to me. Your guests will be satiated before you roll out any dessert.

 

I like the idea of Steak Diane rather than beef stroganoff. The Steak Diane seems more lively. A recipe from Saveur,

http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/Classic-Steak-Diane  It has madeira in it.

 

Are Duchesse potatoes out of favor now? I don't remember seeing them around in ages, but then, I don't frequent restaurants where they might be served. I think they had their heyday in the 1950s and 1960s.

(Duchesse potatoes recipe,

http://www.saveur.com/article/recipes/pommes-duchesse-french-piped-potatoes )

 

The few times I've eaten a good aspic, I thought they were so light and refreshing, especially as a summer food. They're not limited to tomato juice.

http://www.dailywt.com/7-retro-aspic-recipes/

 

My idea for a retro/unfashionable menu. I would call this one "Upscale 1960s."

 

Prawn cocktail with tabasco

Some kind of vegetable aspic, a good one

Steak Diane with Duchesse potatoes and braised spinach

Grand Marnier souffle (be careful of tricky timing here, unless you do a twice-cooked souffle)

Chocolates filled with cherries and liqueur (I remember eating these as a kid. Like this,

http://www.amazon.com/Mon-Cheri-Chocolate-Covered-Cherries/dp/B000KYQXDY )

[liuzhou]

 

Thanks for the information about the Knickerbocker Glory. With a name like that, it's a shame that it's just a sundae.

 

Just a sundae? No! No! No!

This was a sundae on crack cocaine. No 'just' about it! People mortgaged their grandmothers to buy one.

   

[jmacnaughtan]

To the OP: 

 

When is this intended meal?  You say you are open to any sort of dish but the impression still continues that it is to be a Western European/USAmerican meal - is this true?

 

Sorry, completely overlooked your original question.  If everything goes to plan, it'll be for the end of October.  And yes, I like to plan dinners well in advance

 

 

Vol-au-vent, usually filled with creamy something, followed by beef stroganoff with sour cream sauce sounds a bit much to me. Your guests will be satiated before you roll out any dessert.

 

I like the idea of Steak Diane rather than beef stroganoff. The Steak Diane seems more lively. A recipe from Saveur,

http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/Classic-Steak-Diane  It has madeira in it.

 

Are Duchesse potatoes out of favor now? I don't remember seeing them around in ages, but then, I don't frequent restaurants where they might be served. I think they had their heyday in the 1950s and 1960s.

(Duchesse potatoes recipe,

http://www.saveur.com/article/recipes/pommes-duchesse-french-piped-potatoes )

 

 

 

You have a good point, and I hadn't thought about that.  Steak Diane with pommes duchesse sounds like a good idea, and would aptly be served with green beans amandine.

 

Just a sundae? No! No! No!

This was a sundae on crack cocaine. No 'just' about it! People mortgaged their grandmothers to buy one.

   

 

I need to find somewhere that still makes these.  Failing that, I'm pretty sure there's a recipe in a 1950's Good Housekeeping cookbook at my parents' house.

[Deryn]

The earlier part of the 1940s were war years. The latter part of the 1940s may have removed the problem of living on 'rations' from the table but the food was pretty basic, simple fare in most households both in Europe and North America. The 50s in North America saw the emergence of 'convenience foods' which I think were adopted far more in North America than in Europe.

 

I think the problem with trying to define your 'menu' as 'western European' from any time starting with the 1940s is that Europe was not (and I would say probably is still not) as into 'fads' in terms of cooking/eating as North Americans were. A good simple roast chicken, vegetables and herbs from the garden, homemade or locally made bread and cheeses - these sound like dinner for the average person in the France of those days - and today. Maybe in the 'upscale' dining room a few more ingredients found their way to the table and meats may have been 'cut up', mixed with herbs and wine (and or heavy cream) to seem 'fancy'. You may want to look at early Julia Child for ideas there.

 

I also think that the 'service' was as important (if not more so) than the actual foods being presented, in creating the feeling of 'haute cuisine'. Using a silver platter for the chicken made it 'upscale', more so than using an old cracked pottery piece. Candlelight, chandeliers, servants to bring in the dishes, people arriving dressed formally as opposed to farmers slogging in from the field to eat stew at the kitchen table. Stew is stew - add wine and candles .. it feels special. Put in a tv dinner tray and it feels kitschy. Not sure exactly what effect you want to achieve but thinking about 'how you serve' what you serve may be all you need to do to be 'different'/fashionable/unfashionable.

 

That said, I would perhaps consider the Coquilles St. Jacques I mentioned since a) the name is French b) Julia made it c) I can't recall the last time I saw it on a menu, at least in North America - do people still eat that in France?

 

On the whole though, without a specific 'theme' (like the recreation of a particularly spectacular event or idea - World's Fair foods of the 'xxxx' perhaps), I would bet that few would recognize recipes from that era as being anything out of the ordinary even today in Europe. I think you may have to go back further - to the beginning of the 1900s maybe - to find dishes that were then innovative or upscale but which we don't really eat today so that they would be 'special' for your dinner party. Or you could maybe look at 'airline foods' at the dawn of commercial aviation. Not sure what Air France for instance served in their first class section for cross Atlantic flights but I remember being served amazing food flying to Britain from North America in the 50s.

 

You could also consult the 'food timeline' online (http://www.foodtimeline.org/). There is a lot of reading there and at times I have found myself following link after link for days - may be good for ideas or may confuse you completely. Also a favorite of mine is Heston Blumenthal since he loved to research and 're-create' history in some of his banquets. If you haven't watched his historical series before, see if you can find them online and indulge for a few hours.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[huiray]

... - to the beginning of the 1900s maybe -...

 

Pressed Duck, then?  :-) If you can find/rent a duck press... in France, I would think you could...

 

http://chicago.eater.com/2011/4/4/6688919/next-restaurants-paris-1906-menu-in-pictures

http://www.alifewortheating.com/chicago/next-paris-1906

[huiray]

If you extend your range to Edwardian times and consider the "service" aspects that Deryn raises --- then have a look at this past eG thread for interest and maybe some ideas: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/144481-gilded-dining-in-the-edwardian-age/

 

:-)

[jmacnaughtan]

If only I could get hold of a duck press...  The only one I've ever seen is in the Tour d'Argent.

 

Deryn, thanks for the link.  I think you've just provided me with a whole new way to waste my workday

 

You may be right that there are fewer fads in Western Europe (excluding the UK), but they certainly existed.  There were a few in home cooking: pseudo-Vietnamese ginger prawns and anything "en croûte" spring to mind, but they were most prominent in restaurants.  Vol-au-vents are the most iconic, but there were also great fads for anything to do with puff pastry, fruit, vegetables and butter sculpted into flowers, hollandaise-style sauces smothering everything and then torched...

 

And that's before you even get to the desserts.

[huiray]

If only I could get hold of a duck press...  The only one I've ever seen is in the Tour d'Argent.

 

 

You have a month to get everything together.  Suppose you looked at French antique shops, miscellaneous old stuff shops, etc...?

[Jaymes]

 

And kudos for lobster thermidor.  If only I had the oven space and the money to splash out on half a dozen lobsters (they're ridiculously expensive here)...

 

 

"Harvey Wallbanger Cake."

 

Tell me more about this cake...

 

I feel pretty sure this fad never made it to France, but it was quite the rage in the US for a while:  Harvey Wallbanger Cake http://allrecipes.com/recipe/harvey-wallbanger-cake/

 

 

Oh, and PS - I really love Coquille St. Jacques.  Interestingly enough, just ordered it last Friday night at a local restaurant that bills itself as offering "fine Continental cuisine."

 

Only now, speaking of fads, the Coquille St. Jacques was "Deconstructed." 

 

[CatPoet]

Cheese fondue, that is to me the 70:ties.  But also bean stews and vegetarian dishes   and of course  healthy desserts  as  baked apples with raisins and almonds. 

[Jaymes]

Regarding fondue - I recall a great many dinner parties that featured fondue, but not the cheese kind.  It was chunks of good steak - ribeye or fillet or something - and a pot of boiling oil, along with special dinner plates that held a selection of sauces.

 

One of my fondest memories of that time was a bite of steak that was amazingly tender - far tenderer than the other bites.

 

Only later did I realize that, because I had drunk a great deal of wine, I had forgotten to cook that bite.  Yum. 

 

Unintentional steak tartare.

[CatPoet]

Oh when it comes to fads, trust me  Europe  well at last  Sweden had them.   I can try to find them but I know that in the  60:ties  pasta became popular and anything American like hamburgers, chips and cocktails.

[heidih]

My immediate thinking is also Coquilles St. Jacques - they must be served in the giant scallop shells! A link to Saveur article by Jacques Pepin.  Also Jamon Persille and Grand Marnier chocolate mousse as opposed to the souffle for ease of prep/service. So basically meander through Mastering the Art of French Cooking Vol 1 I think and be inspired. 

[Lisa Shock]

We can get a duck press very easily here in the US: brass, steel. Ebay  sellers actually have several models, a couple for under $300.

[SylviaLovegren]

The only other cookbook I'd recommend in addition to Sylvia's is The Pyromaniac's Cookbook, 1968. (copies on amazon are too expensive, check eBay) Ignore the modern re-issue.

 

I

 

LOVE the Pyromaniac's Cookbook.  In fact, I loved it so much I put their recipe for "Baked Beans A Glo-Glo" (baked beans flamed with rum) in Fashionable Food.