Chicken wing vs Chicken feet vs Chicken back Stock?

[torolover]

I'm trying to make the ultimate Chicken ramen soup where you boil or pressure cook the chicken bones for over 6 hours.

 

Has anyone make stocks just from Chicken Feet, or Chicken wings, or Chicken back?

 

So far I have found the chicken feet stock (no aromatics) to be less chickeny then Chicken back stock.  I'm going to compare chicken wing stock to chicken back stock next.

 

Has anyone experimented comparing different chicken part stocks?  Pros and Cons of each?

Edited March 30, 2014 by torolover (log)

[FeChef]

You going to get more collagen/gelatin from chicken feet, and im pretty sure there cheap if you can source them. Not sure where you are but here in the usa, chicken wings are the most expensive part on the chicken.

[Edward J]

What FeChef says....

 

Wings are expensive (Bar-food) but have a lot of natural gelatin.  Chicken feet are somewhat expensive here, compared to backs, as many Asians consider them good eating, but they make a decent stock.

 

Backs are a different story.  There is a lot of fat on the backs, and tails are almost always attatched. Usually I strip these off before making the stock (I render down the fat for other stuff) Backs usually contain kidneys or parts of kidneys as well, so some care has to be taken to remove this. 

 

But the good stuff about backs is that there is a fair amount of meat  on the backs, and tey make a flavourfull stock--not much gelatin content to it, but very flavourfull.

[Chris Amirault]

Stock made exclusively with legs (drumstick and thighs still attached) is the best solution for me. Legs are nearly always the cheapest part, often cheaper than whole birds, and they have a good balance of components, with enough collagen and lots of meat. 

 

I once made stock just with feet and it was worth doing exactly once: almost flavorless but, when cold, about as thick a gel as you can get. 

[torolover]

Stock made exclusively with legs (drumstick and thighs still attached) is the best solution for me. Legs are nearly always the cheapest part, often cheaper than whole birds, and they have a good balance of components, with enough collagen and lots of meat. 

 

I once made stock just with feet and it was worth doing exactly once: almost flavorless but, when cold, about as thick a gel as you can get. 

Thanks for the tips guys?  Price is not really an issue for me at this point, as I'm trying to make the best tasting chicken ramen stock.

 

Wings in Boston are around $2.50 a pound on sale at Whole Foods.

 

I think it was Harrold Mcgee said the flavor comes from the flesh.  I wonder how the stock would taste using only high quality chicken breasts?

[heidih]

Chicken breasts and  flavor in the same sentence versus dark meat? My every instinct says NO!

 

I find the most flavor from dark meat on the bone like legs and becks (backs are fine if you clean them well as noted) along with a handful of feet to amp up the gelatin.

[FeChef]

Yeah legs are the cheapest way to go. You can make a really gelatinous stock if you strip all the skin, meat, and bones away and break the bones in half. Also the more you add to the pot, the quicker and stronger it will be. I am making a pork stock right now that has been reduced twice already. Its so gelatinous it doesnt even freeze!

 

And the best part is i get the pork neck bones w/meat on them for $0.50/lb.

[huiray]

What heidih said.

 

Try: 1) Stewing chickens.  2) Grass-fed/free-range chicken frames^¶ (which still have lots of meat on them) from farmers/ markets etc.  3) Silkie chickens (those black-skinned/black-meat chickens) which often have "double-the-chickeny-flavor" of ordinary chickens, unless they are very old (i.e. freezer-aged for eons).  4) Combination of parts, such as those chicken frames + backbones^§ + chicken thighs/legs/feet/wingtips. 

 

But otherwise, as others have said - chicken legs and thighs, for minimal expenditure.

 

When I am not using run-of-the-mill supermarket chicken for "OK but somewhat blah" stock I probably tend to use stewing chickens (smallish, sort-of scrawny, tough meat) from my local Chinese grocery (when they have it) and get nice fragrant and rich-tasting stock.  Otherwise, and when I feel like paying for it, a whole Bell & Evans chicken rather than a Purdue chicken from the local Western supermarket.

 

Also, regarding using just breast meat (no skin, no bones?) - no gelatin to speak of, really.

 

^¶ I sometimes break/cut the backbones open lengthwise to expose the interior, and otherwise mangle-up the bones of the frame(s).  More skimming needed, though.

 

^§ I often don't mind the bits of liver or thymus glands sometimes left on the backbones - they add a bit of "extra flavor". :-)

[heidih]

torolover -  I recently discovered that my Whole Foods will sell you the backs and necks  (organic). Reasonable price. You have to check on availability as they only have them when they have broken down a bunch of chickens.

[nickrey]

If you want a really flavoursome stock, you could do what I do and buy a whole chicken. Remove the breasts for other purposes and use the rest of the chicken for stock. I section the chicken into pieces, including cutting the leg and other large bones in half through the bone and then pressure cook the stock. Use of all this meat allows for more water to be used than is normally called for with the weight of the chicken as the extra flavour supports a greater dilution.

 

There is so much flavour in there you can also get a reasonable second run from the remouillage, perhaps boosting the gelatine by adding some of the cheaper cuts referred to above.

[dcarch]

Bones by themselves have basically no flavor. The marrow inside, and the small amount of meat give the stock flavor.

 

Skin also has no flavor. I think skin, tendons, and cartilage contribute to texture of the stock (gelatin). That's why chicken feet by themselves for stock will not have much chicken flavor.

 

If you want good chicken flavor stock, go to a Chinese store and buy old chickens. They sell old chickens specifically for making stock. Very flavorful.

 

dcarch

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Norm Matthews]

When it comes to making flavorful stock, the older the chicken the more flavor in the stock.  The older, the longer it needs to be stewed to make the meat tender. I was in an asian market the other day and saw whole stewing hens for sale. It included the head and feet. I would think that old bird would make very flavorful stock.

 

PS added to say I didn't read all of dcarch's post before I posted this. 

Edited March 30, 2014 by Norm Matthews (log)

[Martin Fisher]

In my opinion and to my taste the best broth/stock comes from whole birds (preferably birds with some age), both in flavor and economy.

When I'm looking to make volumes of stock, I poach whole birds, reserve the poached meat for various uses, then I pressure cook the the bones, heads, necks and feet in the flavorful poaching liquid....it makes the best stock.

[dcarch]

And BTW, turkey necks, chicken hearts, and gizzards make very potent chicken stock. They sell them cheap in packages here in stores in NY.

 

And BTW, what do they do with turkey feet? I have never seen them in stores here in NY. 

 

dcarch

Edited March 30, 2014 by dcarch (log)

[djyee100]

I've made chicken stock entirely from wings, at a time when I was buying and cutting up whole chickens, and saving wings in the freezer until there was enough for stock. The wings made a flavorful, gelatinous stock--very good.

 

Usually I buy chicken backs from my Whole Foods, which are quite meaty, and I throw in a chicken leg for additional flavor. I was once told by a cooking teacher not to use all bones for a premium stock, the stock needs some meat in it for the best flavor.

 

I'm trying to make the ultimate Chicken ramen soup where you boil or pressure cook the chicken bones for over 6 hours...

 

Method is as important as ingredients when making stock, BTW. When you say "boil," I hope you mean a low simmer, like slow bubbles in a fish tank. Real boiling will release those cloudy proteins into the stock, and your stock will neither look nor taste good. I would also caution you about time--more is not necessarily better. I once cooked a batch of stock to death, thinking somehow that would max out the flavor. All it did was soften and dissolve the bones to the point where they leached into the stock--not a good result.

 

These days I start checking my stock after it's been cooking about 4 hours. I look for a bright sunny yellow color, I taste for a full flavor, and then the stock comes off the stove. I strain the stock off the bones ASAP. Then I let the stock cool, and refrigerate it overnight so that the fat hardens into a cap I can easily remove. The stock is then ready for storage in ziploc bags in the freezer, or for cooking immediately.

 

That's my method, anyway. I 'm sure others make stock by their own successful methods. If you ask 10 people for the best way to make stock, you'll get 11 answers.

[huiray]

 

Method is as important as ingredients when making stock, BTW. When you say "boil," I hope you mean a low simmer, like slow bubbles in a fish tank. Real boiling will release those cloudy proteins into the stock, and your stock will neither look nor taste good. I would also caution you about time--more is not necessarily better. I once cooked a batch of stock to death, thinking somehow that would max out the flavor. All it did was soften and dissolve the bones to the point where they leached into the stock--not a good result.

 

For most chicken stocks that would be true, and even for chicken ramen stock.  But for pork or beef stock that may not be so.  I presume you have seen this thread?

[djyee100]

For most chicken stocks that would be true, and even for chicken ramen stock.  But for pork or beef stock that may not be so.  I presume you have seen this thread?

 

My post was referring only to chicken stock, which is the subject of this thread. I hope this clarifies matters.

Edited March 30, 2014 by djyee100 (log)

[Alex]

Stock made exclusively with legs (drumstick and thighs still attached) is the best solution for me. Legs are nearly always the cheapest part, often cheaper than whole birds, and they have a good balance of components, with enough collagen and lots of meat. 

 

I once made stock just with feet and it was worth doing exactly once: almost flavorless but, when cold, about as thick a gel as you can get. 

 

Akin to Chris's post, I made stock with wings just once, albeit not via pressure cooker. It was passable, but Chris's approach produces much better stock; it's my go-to method.

[annachan]

I can get chicken wing tips here for quite cheap and they are great for stock. I think a combination of feet/wing tips and chicken bones/legs will give you good body + flavor. To add sweetness to the stock, I usually throw in some pork bones....

[djyee100]

For most chicken stocks that would be true, and even for chicken ramen stock.  But for pork or beef stock that may not be so.  I presume you have seen this thread?

 

Some additional thoughts. Perhaps we should clarify that boiled stock is typical for the SE Asian soup that the OP wants to make.

In Western-style cooking (based on classic French methods), the stock is simmered on low heat, even for beef and pork bones.

[ojisan]

Time to watch Tampopo again.