Anyone experience plastic flaking with foodsaver bags?

[markdub]

I've been lurking for a bit and finally decided to sign up so I could post. I received the Anova for Christmas, and bought a low end foodsaver. This morning I am about half through my first attempt at sous vide with short ribs. I'm dialed in at 62C, have verified that temp outside of just the Anova reading (I realize there is much back and forth on temp, time but want to avoid discussing that here and just focus on what I've seen) and about 36 hours so far. I peeled back the foil this morning on my water bath vessel and noticed a VERY faint smell of beef. I mean ever so subtle - barely detectable and I have a heightened sense of smell like I'm sure others here do as well. Of course my first thought was that a seal on a bag failed. So, I pulled the bags out of the bath and set them in a dish. I blotted them dry with paper towels and inspected them, including some mild pressure but could not find any breaks in the seals or leaks, nor is there any evidence such as water bath color, etc to further suggest a seal actually failed. However, just to be safe I double bagged them, vac'd and sealed again, and put them back in the bath. Now, here's the weird part I'm posting about. In the glass container in which I placed the original bags I pulled from the bath, there were lots of very small plastic "flakes" - very fine material but definitely from the bags. Has anyone ever seen this? I suppose it's possible that the circulation impeller somehow ground up a bag corner but there were quite a few of these flakes. My concern is really about the inside of the bags and whether I'll open them and find similar flakes. I would be relieved if someone else has seen this and it's an external phenomenon only, given I'm a little worried about this cook having to be discarded.

[rotuts]

if you think this is from the corner of the original bags, examine them when you are done w the cooking

the fait smell beef probably comes from a bit of the seasoning or a bit of 'beef jus' being above your seal and there fore in contact w the water.

its very important to get a full seal. make sure the bags are dry and have no food or oil near the seal area.

look carefully at each seal as you make them. if room at the top of the bag add a second seal. I usually do.

best of luck w SV

all ( more ? ) than you want to know about it is right here at the eG

Happy New Year !

[gfweb]

In the beginning I was surprised about odors that escape during SV. Apparently some smells get through intact plastic; allspice for example or the smoke smell in smoked meat. Not so surprising, small non-polar molecules could get through plastic I suppose...and it doesn't take many to be a detectable smell. I forget the threshold of olfaction for stuff, but it can be very low eg a few ppm (IIRC).

I've never seen the plastic flakes.

[nickrey]

Agree on odours escaping from properly sealed bags: cloves and smoke in particular.

I've never seen the flakes either. What sort of bags did you use?

[mgaretz]

Never seen the flakes and I have used those FoodSaver bags for years. If it is the bag material from the outside, there's very little chance it will be on the inside as the inside is a different material. (These bags are laminated from several layers of plastics: Mylar/polypropylene on the outside which forms a decent barrier and polyethylene on the inside to make them seal easy.)

I will echo what others have said about certain molecules being able to penetrate the plastic. It's the main reason why helium balloons don't last. The fancy ones are basically the same type of laminated construction as the vacuum bags with an extra layer of aluminum for more barrier resistance. (Retort bags are the same but thicker.) Still, even those balloons will eventually go flat.

[markdub]

Thanks for sharing the experience. I'm hoping when I examine them today that I'll notice a slight corner damaged, etc. The bags used were just the stock starter bags (pre-made) included in the foodsaver box. I'm also relieved to hear that there's a difference between the inside and outside, and looking forward to the short ribs today!

[lordratner]

Do you have hard water? When I moved to the UK and got the hard water that comes with living in the country, I noticed the same white flakes you speak of. They are most likely flakes coming off the heating element from the hard water. Lime scale. Expose the flakes to vinegar and see if they dissolve. I dump a bunch of vinegar in my bath every month or so to clear it out (my sous vide bath is integrated with the heater).

The smells, as others have noted, sometimes seep through the bags. Other times you really do have a leak.

[rotuts]

if you have a true leak you wont be able to miss it looking at the water after a SV

[markdub]

Update - we had an early dinner tonight given some plans, so just finished the short ribs. I was not able to find any evidence of the "flakes" inside the bags, nor was I able to identify any damage to the bag corners or edges. I'm perplexed by this. I took a picture of the flakes and will post as soon as I'm given the ability to do so (new member). I suppose none of this matters as long as the phenomenon is exterior to the food, but it was still odd.

The short ribs themselves were quite good - my wife even enjoyed them and she's the one in our family who typically forces me (reluctantly) to cook her cuts of meat well done. I finished them quickly via a raging hot sear on each side. I'm not sure if I will make them again via the sous vide route though. Even though the level of doneness and tenderness were absolutely perfect, I would personally sacrifice a little of that perfection in exchange for the normal flavors that emerge from a traditional braising. I did a simple balsamic and soy reduction for these tonight, which was quite good, but there's just something I like about the mix of short ribs, vegetables, seasonings, etc involved in a traditional cook that just says "comfort food" to me. At any rate, the family is keen for me to try other sous vide recipes so looking forward to scouring the forums here for the next test. Thanks again to those that chimed in above. Again, I'll post a pic of the flakes I was talking about once I can.

[mgaretz]

To test if the flakes are scale as lordratner suggested, see if they dissolve in some vinegar.

[gfweb]

Heated vinegar

[markdub]

I verified that the flakes would not dissolve and still appear to be a plastic substance. The question is, did they come from the bags for which I could not ID any visible damage (or perhaps the damage was invisible to the eye), or was there some plastic in or around the anova unit when unboxed that could have been chewed up upon running the unit. Oh well - I'm not really concerned now given there was no evidence of anything inside the bag which is what matters. I'll still post a pic once I'm allowed to. Other than that, next time I sous vide with the bags again I'll look carefully but given comments here I don't expect it will happen again!

[ojisan]

What was the bath container? What are the temp specs?

Plastic picnic coolers continue to exude white plastic bits, so I no longer use them.

Polycarbonate is rated to 210º.

[markdub]

Container was my (inefficient) large stainless stock pot so no material issues from the container. Temp was 62C throughout. Given others' experience I am really wondering if the likely culprit were some particles either on the bags or on the anova at the start of the cook.

[weedy]

FWIW (not much probably) my Anova certainly didn't 'flake' right out of the box

I still keep it back in its original box (with the foam insert) after drying it, and still no "flakes"

I'd try a different brand of bags, myself.

[markdub]

Just to close this out, here's a pic of what I referred to next to a dime for scale (very small flakes). Sorry for the delay but as a newer poster I could not initially upload due to restrictions then was traveling a bit without my laptop.

[rotuts]

very interesting. have no idea what this is. Ive never seen it w my bags.

I cant see how plastic. a homogeneous film can flake at 'live-in' temps

( - ) several hundred degrees, sure. ( very very cold )

[Hobbychef]

Hello,

I have exactly the same experience, plastic Flaks.

I do not use FoodSaver bags, but bags for a chamber vacumeermachine.

After 72 hours I saw also the plastic flakes. I had never seen this before.

I had pork prepared and after 72 hours there was a bad smell, a bit like amonia. Maybe that has someting to do with it.

Greetings,

hobby Chef
The Netherlands

[weedy]

@Hobbychef also with an Anova?

that might suggest it is indeed some sort of packing material...

but have you tried removing the protective sleeve on the lower part of the unit and thoroughly rinsing the heater coil and impeller (i.e., all the immersed parts)?

my unit certainly doesn't "flake"

[Hobbychef]

I have a Sous Vide Supreme.

I had pork prepared and after 72 hours there was a bad / off smell, a bit like amonia. Maybe that has someting to do with it. It was the first en only time I saw the plastic flaking.

Greetz from The Hague, Netherlands.

[Hobbychef]

'My flaks' in the Sous Vide Supreme are identical as on the picture.

Greetz from The Hague, Netherlands.

[gfweb]

Using both SV Supreme x years and Anova, I've never seen it. Wonder if its something dissolved in the water.

[gfweb]

Time for some testing!

Do the flakes melt or burn in a hot pan?

Dissolve in alcohol or vinegar? How about if you heat the vinegar?

Dissolve in oil?

[Nick Aitken]

I experienced the exact same flaking. In my case:

• 72 hour short rib
• Vacuum packed in FoodSaver
• 55.5C in a 22Qt cambro container
• Anova immersion circulator

One side of the foodsaver packaging, on the outside only, was completely covered in those plastic bits.

[rotuts]

did you use 'food saver' bags ?