Are There Any Workable Substitutes For Fresh Lemongrass?

[Bill Klapp]

I am in Italy, and will likely not be able to find lemongrass plants until later this fall. While you can find many fresh ingredients from a variety of Asian cultures, no lemongrass. I found cut, dried lemongrass, which, when reconstituted, provides a hint of the real thing, but not much. I also found powdered lemongrass in the jar spices section of a supermarket, and it is worse than uselss. It is possible to mail-order cut fresh lemongrass from London, but at a steep tariff. If I bite the bullet and order, can fresh lemongrass be frozen or otherwise preserved so that it will retain a reasonable amount of its pungency?

[Shel_B]

A lot of people have used grated lemon zest. Some have recommended using slices of lemon peel and then removing the slices from the dish. However, a Thai cook that I know suggests that there's really no good substitute, and she recommends doing without lemongrass or a substitute. Finally, from Cook's Thesaurus: Substitute lemon zest (zest from 1 lemon = 2 stalks lemon grass) OR lemon verbena OR lemon balm OR lemon leaves:

http://www.foodsubs.com/HerbsAsian.html

Edited August 21, 2013 by Shel_B (log)

[Plantes Vertes]

Yes, it's no problem to freeze it. Just chop it up and put it in freezer bags.

If you do get some fresh you can grow it - put the root end in water, wait for the roots to grow a bit and then plant it in a pot. Then you'll always have some. You could perhaps be the first to exploit Italian demand for lemongrass, and become rich!

[heidih]

Someone posted about using lemon balm or lemon verbena as a substitute the other day. It is a stronger floral taste, but worth trying as ancient lemongrass doesn't pack much of a punch. I have frozen lemongrass stalks rather than pre-chopped with the thought that less exposure of the oils will keep it fresher tasting when used.

[Bill Klapp]

But it sounds like frozen will work for me, and if I am lucky and get it shipped untrimmed, I might be able to plant it. But I will not get rich. There is no demand for lemongrass here, because there are no Thai restaurants or even Thai people, as nearly as I can tell! Thanks to all, including the substitute suggestions...

Edited August 21, 2013 by Bill Klapp (log)

[scubadoo97]

Frozen works well and it will retain its flavor.

I did use lemon balm herb in a dish and noted a similar profile to lemon grass. I would have guessed it was lemon grass in the dish if I didn't know it was there. Not the same thing but would be a close sub

[HungryC]

Can you get keffir lime leaves? (makrut leaves) The flavor is closer to lemongrass than to ordinary lemon leaves or lemon peel; it's more of a citronella aroma than strictly lemon.

Rome is full of Bangladeshi vendors, and I know I've seen lemongrass for sale at the big Vittorio Emanuele market in Rome, near Termini. All sorts of Asian & African ingredients (and vendors). So you might try looking there--it's a pretty large spread, with lots of ethnic stuff. Another possible source: the Filipino immigrant community....Rome & Florence both have little Filipino grocery stores, and a proprietor might be able to point you toward a source for lemongrass.

[Bill Klapp]

I have a kaffir lime tree and Thai basil, just no lemongrass! In the interim, will source some lemon balm just to experience it. Thanks for the leads on sources for lemongrass here...

[heidih]

Bill - lemon balm and lemon verbena are different plants so you may want to explore both. I have only used the verbena.

[jsager01]

Rome is full of Bangladeshi vendors, and I know I've seen lemongrass for sale at the big Vittorio Emanuele market in Rome, near Termini. All sorts of Asian & African ingredients (and vendors). So you might try looking there--it's a pretty large spread, with lots of ethnic stuff. Another possible source: the Filipino immigrant community....Rome & Florence both have little Filipino grocery stores, and a proprietor might be able to point you toward a source for lemongrass.

i assume you mean the Nuevo Mercato dell'Esquilino located between Piazza Vittorio and Termini station? When i was there quite a while ago, i was not specifically looking for lemongrass and did not see any, but i will be very surprised if you ask around and cannot find fresh lemongrass on sale somewhere around there.

[Mjx]

I am in Italy, and will likely not be able to find lemongrass plants until later this fall. While you can find many fresh ingredients from a variety of Asian cultures, no lemongrass. I found cut, dried lemongrass, which, when reconstituted, provides a hint of the real thing, but not much. I also found powdered lemongrass in the jar spices section of a supermarket, and it is worse than uselss. It is possible to mail-order cut fresh lemongrass from London, but at a steep tariff. If I bite the bullet and order, can fresh lemongrass be frozen or otherwise preserved so that it will retain a reasonable amount of its pungency?

If there is an ipercoop near you, they may well have it; I remember regularly seeing lemongrass at one in Milano, which always surprised me, for some reason.

[Bill Klapp]

Understood on lemon balm and lemon verbena.

Interesting news on the Ipercoop, which indeed I can find nearby, although I am at risk in being in an area too rural to have the full range of things that I might find in an Ipercoop in a large city. I split my time here with Torino, however, and may have some luck at a large Ipercoop there. A local live plant and herb merchant told me that I was sure to find it at an Esselunga, but had no luck.

A related question, hinted at above, that I have never had reason to explore: how many countries use lemongrass in their cuisines? That may end up being useful to me here, as Torino has increasingly vibrant ethnic and cultural diversity. I have to admit that I have not had a chance to go stall by stall in Torino's Porta Palazzo market yet, and it is the largest open-air market in Europe. However, three different Asian foods shops told me that they thought it unlikely that I would find lemongrass at Porta Palazzo, and the shops are all across the street from the market...

[HungryC]

Rome is full of Bangladeshi vendors, and I know I've seen lemongrass for sale at the big Vittorio Emanuele market in Rome, near Termini. All sorts of Asian & African ingredients (and vendors). So you might try looking there--it's a pretty large spread, with lots of ethnic stuff. Another possible source: the Filipino immigrant community....Rome & Florence both have little Filipino grocery stores, and a proprietor might be able to point you toward a source for lemongrass.

i assume you mean the Nuevo Mercato dell'Esquilino located between Piazza Vittorio and Termini station? When i was there quite a while ago, i was not specifically looking for lemongrass and did not see any, but i will be very surprised if you ask around and cannot find fresh lemongrass on sale somewhere around there.

Yes, that's the market I mean...didn't know the "real" name, as it's near piazza Vittorio and spread over a couple of buildings. It seemed to be bigger on certain days, and the clientele and vendors were far more diverse than your typical Roman market. Haven't been in it since '10, but I definitely saw lemongrass, cilantro, holy basil, and a bunch of different asian greens. This would have been in the late summer/early fall.

RE: lemongrass use....all over SE Asia. India, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia, Philippines. Some use in sub-Saharan Africa, too. Plant is native to India, and it has a pretty weedy growth habit. Once established, it will make a big ol' clump and survive most anything (besides prolonged freezing temps). Some freezing will kill off the top, but if the roots are protected, it will resprout from the base.

One last suggestion for sourcing it: find a resto in Torino serving Thai food and pester them for a source. Dine in a couple times and ingratiate yourself, and the proprietors might be willing to sell you some. A lazy TripAdvisor search lists four different places serving Thai food in Turin, including Yoshi, Tuk Tuk, and Ristorante Asia. In Rome, the venerable Viet resto Thien Kim, via Guilia 21, might be able to help you with your quest. Ditto for Restaurant Mekong (never been to it, so I can't vouch for the friendliness there).

Edited August 22, 2013 by HungryC (log)

[nickrey]

I don't know if you can get it in Europe but here in Australia we can buy jars of pre-chopped lemongrass. It is a Thai product containing Lemongrass (50%), water, acidity regular (330).

Lemongrass is easy to get here with every supermarket selling it but this is something to have in the refrigerator if you find yourself short.

[Maison Rustique]

I would suggest that you use the dried that you can find easily and then add a drop of lemongrass essential oil to give it a flavor boost. I hope this won't come across as spammy, but you can find a pure, therapeutic grade here: http://www.mydoterra.com/debraallen/. I am not pushing my site, but if you choose to go with an essential oil, be sure it is high quality, pure and can be ingested. Many are only for external use.

[Bill Klapp]

I may be able to find the jarred product via mail order from the UK as a backup, and will explore the essential oil idea, too. I turned the Porta Palazzo market in Torino upside down yesterday, and was able to buy potted lemon verbena, but no lemongrass. Mjx, I also hit Torino's biggest Ipercoop, and no go on lemongrass there. I may end up having to go to Rome to get some damn lemongrass!

[liuzhou]

I have always been unable to find lemongrass here in China (despite being virtualy able to see Vietnam from my bedroom window).

In 2007, I had to visit England, where I bought a bunch and carried it back to China (possibly breaking several laws and treaties). I then did what Plantes Vertes suggests upthread and planted it. I've never gone without since. But I haven't become rich, either.

P.S. I'm the sort of person house plants look at and commit suicide. This is is the only thing I've every managed to grow (except a couple of kids, but I think their mother contributed to that process).

[Bill Klapp]

You want to smuggle some into Italy? There will be a nice bottle of Barolo in it for you!

One more question and I will let this one go. There are conflicting reports on the use of fresh lemon verbena leaves as a substitute for lemongrass. One says use half the quantity of lemongrass called for to start and adjust upward as desired, the other says one-to-one ratio. Could some of you who have cooked with lemon verbena opine on which of these is likely to be right? (I understand that I probably cannot go wrong with the first option, but I could also end up playing around with the dish too much to its ultimate detriment, since many Thai dishes cook in reasonably brief times.)

Edited September 1, 2013 by Bill Klapp (log)

[liuzhou]

You want to smuggle some into Italy? There will be a nice bottle of Barolo in it for you!

I'm on my way!

[Bill Klapp]

I have enjoyed some success here. I was able to find a good stash of both the jarred lemongrass pictured above, as well as jarred galangal from the same producer. All of the things that I ordered came from a Thai grocer in the UK. I ordered fresh lemongrass, but it did not arrive yet, and also lemongrass and Thai basil seeds.

Question of the day: I also bought tree ear mushrooms, which came packaged like a supermarket steak, as well as banana leaves, pandan leaves and fresh galangal. I know that I can freeze banana leaves, but is it OK to freeze the other three items?

[djyee100]

I've bought and cooked with frozen pandan leaves, & they're OK. Not as aromatic as fresh, IMO, but then, what is?

[Baselerd]

In my humble opinion: it's better to cook with what high quality, fresh ingredients you have at your disposal rather than to try and cook with canned ingredients just because it's what a recipe calls for.

I'm lucky that I can get fresh galangal, lemongrass, and kaffir leaves around here. I've cooked with the canned stuff too, and there simply is no comparison. Good luck, either way.

[jsager01]

I have enjoyed some success here. I was able to find a good stash of both the jarred lemongrass pictured above, as well as jarred galangal from the same producer. All of the things that I ordered came from a Thai grocer in the UK. I ordered fresh lemongrass, but it did not arrive yet, and also lemongrass and Thai basil seeds.

Question of the day: I also bought tree ear mushrooms, which came packaged like a supermarket steak, as well as banana leaves, pandan leaves and fresh galangal. I know that I can freeze banana leaves, but is it OK to freeze the other three items?

While i had not gone hunting for lemon grass, etc, while in Italy (usually short business trips), i am surprised that you cannot find fresh ones. I do know for certain that you can find all the fresh lemon grass, galangal, etc, in Paris, London and Amsterdam that you would want and more. Since you are in Torino, and if you do make a trip to Grenoble, i am also quite sure that you can find what you want there also. There is quite a significant Vietnamese presence in France. Do a google search to be certain, so you do not have to search every ethnic store, although that could be an adventure in itself.

BTW,there are no phyto sanitary checks between EU countries and i have bought on the internet, kaffir lemon plants, etc from a nursery in Germany for delivery in Amsterdam. To have access to such ingredients on a long term basis, i would suggest that you grow them yourself, and buy the plants on the internet. The downside is that the postage can cost as much as the plant itself.

To answer the specific questions in your posting, ... are the tree ear mushrooms also what is known as cloud ear fungus, or worse still, black fungus? Auricularia polytricha ? If so, and if they are dried, then there is no need to freeze them, and keep them just as you would any dried mushrooms. I have not seen them packaged like a supermarket steak - they are usually packaged ' free flowing' in plastic sachets or bags.

yes you can freeze the rest, and they are even sold as cleaned and frozen.

I second Baselerd's suggestion to use fresh ingredients wherever possible.

[Bill Klapp]

The advice about fresh ingredients is certainly right in general, but less so for Thai, where many packaged and prepared ingredients are used most of the time. However, I am living in a country where Chinese is the only widely-found Asian food (sushi is here now, but a Gianni-come-lately, to be sure). I have my own kaffir lime tree and Thai basil, and will grow lemon grass and Thai holy basil, from seed if I have to, but you really limit your possibilities in Thai cooking without lemon grass. It is for that reason that I have jarred lemon grass in the meantime. On the mushrooms, yes on the variety, and they are fresh, not dried, which was why I asked about freezing. I was expecting dried...

[jsager01]

fully agree that ' you really limit your possibilities in Thai cooking without lemon grass', and also galangal, kaffir lime, etc, especially if you cannot get the fresh stuff. What has me posting on this thread is that i believe you can get the fresh stuff in most of EU, and if not then grow your own... you already have your own kaffir lime tree, etc, so whats a few more :-)) I have gone thru the frustrations that you are going thru, but that was many, many moons ago, and nowadays, they are easily available fresh in asian/Chinese/vietnamese grocery stores, at least in Netherlands, France and the UK, where such ingredients are readily available, albeit only in the major cities. But, as you say, this is not the case in Italy.

A quick check on the internet throws up online nurseries that sell pandan and lemon grass plants, and where the postage is as much as, if more than the cost of the plant itself.

Check out http://www.tropika.it/shop-aromatiche.htm and http://tinyurl.com/lemongrass-IT ...they may be out of stock at this time of year, so its best to email or phone them first. I am sure there are others if you are persistent in your googling.

Or check out the nurseries in and around where you live, they may be able to give you some tips on where to find them or, if you are lucky, they may order them on your behalf?

If you are buying the plants on the internet or even in nurseries, make sure that lemon grass is Cymbopogon citratus, and that the pandan is Pandanus amaryllifolius, because, there are many different species or varieties, and a lot of them are grown and sold as ornamental plants, and they may not mention that its not the edible variety/species.

If you have already received the lemon grass that you ordered online, you could try sticking them in a glass of water and hope that they will root, and if so you can then plant them in regular pot of soil/dirt. If you buy fresh pandan in a grocery store/website, they are normally from the aerial suckers (as different from the inground suckers) and i have not had success in propagating from aerial suckers.

and if you are into the Thai bird chillies, and if you can find the dried chillies, you could keep the seeds and try to grow them. i have had success with growing chilli plants from store bought dried chillies, and they include Thai bird chillies and Sichuan chillies (the so-called heaven facing chillies).