Drinks! (2012, part 2)

**ChrisTaylor** · July 24, 2012

Is nocello something I want/need in my life? You kind of know my palate.

tanstaafl2 · July 24, 2012

Is nocello something I want/need in my life? You kind of know my palate.

Somewhat similar to Frangelico (which is all hazelnut I think) to me if that helps you any. If you have had that then you have some idea. Nux Alpina Liqueur from Haus Alpenz (which is a walnut nocino and a very nice liqueur) is another option that I have although I don't know how readily available that is in Australia.

Hmm, I wonder if you mix the two do you get Nocello...

It is likely pretty sweet but you seem the adventurous sort so you can no doubt find a place for it! I recall seeing at least a few cocktail options on here that use it.

**FrogPrincesse** · July 24, 2012

A Manhattan with Bulleit rye, Vya sweet vermouth, Boker's bitters, and a brandied cherry.

The Vya sweet vermouth has a lot of fruit that works well with the spice of the Bulleit rye.

haresfur · July 25, 2012

Is nocello something I want/need in my life? You kind of know my palate.

I haven't actually had any commercial product but I think, yes. It is very sweet but the green walnut flavour is powerful. In some way's it is like pimento dram - sugar syrup with a punch. That being said, it isn't like a lot of cocktails call for it. Bonus points if you can figure out how to cook with it. Pork maybe?

ETA: Oh, Nocino, maybe. The friend who made it is Polish so he didn't actually name it for me.

Edited July 25, 2012 by haresfur (log)

**ChrisTaylor** · July 25, 2012

Picked up two new bottles today--Unicum and Illy coffee liqueur. Used the former in a beta cocktails Fall of Man (bourbon, Unicum, Cherry Heering, Cointreau and Punt e Mes) and the latter in an alpha version of my own invention, with I'm going to give a super lame name like the Godfather's Afternoon Tea or something. Started with 2 oz Illy and added .5 oz Strega. Then, for good measure, 3 dashes of chocolate mole bitters. It's drinkable, but I just spent a day dealing with school swimming and a six-year-old flashing the general public. So right now turps are drinkable. Any suggestions for improving it? I guess I'm aiming for a bittersweet mostly-coffee flavour with a spicy kick to it. Sort of what I might want a Black Russian to be.

judiu · July 25, 2012

Chris, what kind of spicy are you going for here? Sweet spice, like cinnamon or more savoury, like pepper?

I know about Strega, but have never tasted it. Is it sweet, vegetal, fruity, sharp? What is the flavour profile and

the predominant notes? Citrusy would be my guess, but please explain further!

bostonapothecary · July 25, 2012

Is nocello something I want/need in my life? You kind of know my palate.
I haven't actually had any commercial product but I think, yes. It is very sweet but the green walnut flavour is powerful. In some way's it is like pimento dram - sugar syrup with a punch. That being said, it isn't like a lot of cocktails call for it. Bonus points if you can figure out how to cook with it. Pork maybe?
ETA: Oh, Nocino, maybe. The friend who made it is Polish so he didn't actually name it for me.

i think nocino differs only from nocello (or nocillo) in that nocello comes from sorrento. lemoncello, orangecell, nocello...

i highly regard walnut liqueur and think that the haus alpenze version is the best on the market. some others that i've had were too sweet and didn't embrace any bitterness or used an aromatic sugar source and were detrementally dominated by plebian caramel notes.

if you go back years on this thread you'll a few drinks with it. two that come to mind are my "tar pit" and the "folio noce" from no. 9 park. five years ago i was gifted three bottles of handmade nocillo that was supposedly made back in 1991 in naples. it made for some good drinking.

tar pit

1.5 oz. glenn fiddich

1 oz. carpano antica

1 oz. walnut liqueur

2 dashes peychaud's bitters

folio noce (not sure if i remember this correctionly)

2 oz. apple brandy

.5 oz. walnut liqueur

.5 oz. simple syrup

2 dashes peychaud's bitters

**FrogPrincesse** · July 26, 2012

More classics for me this week as I am introducing a visitor to a variety of cocktails.

3:1 Martini with Plymouth gin and Noilly Prat dry vermouth, Angostura and Regan's orange bitters

Red Hook (rye, maraschino liqueur, punt e mes, brandied cherry)

Also, some Cocchi Americano on the rocks. Very refreshing and much less sweet than Lillet.

KD1191 · July 26, 2012

A strange little number from Jones' Complete Bar Guide...

Amer Picon Cocktail

1.5 oz Amer Picon

1 oz Lime Juice

.25 oz Grenadine

Shake & strain, serve up.

I tried it both with the vintage Picon I found a few months back, as well as the modern Picon 'Biere' product. The former was a delicious but low-impact, bitter rose. The latter a weak, sweet mess. Even more glad I went back for that second bottle of the original...

tanstaafl2 · July 26, 2012

Went out and picked up some sherry this week in anticipation of a Teenage Riot. The Lustau dry amontillado was available but I went with the Bodegas Grant Amontillado “La Garrocha” on the recommendation of the store and because it was available in a 375ml bottle. Not entirely sure if that is a dry amontillado so perhaps I made the wrong choice.

While there I picked up a bottle of Bodegas Hidalgo La Gitana Manzanilla because I had read they are good with seafood and I was planning on a shrimp pasta last night.

I must say that it was the most uninspring drink I have had in some time. It wasn't bad, it was just that there wasn't really much of anything to it. I know nothing of sherry and was just trying to "broaden my horizons" so I assume the contents tasted as they were supposed to. It did have a bit of the saline taste at the start but after that it was kind of blah. Not much taste to it one way of the other. I suppose I can try another just to see if I missed anything but I don't feel much motivation to do so.

I will try the amontillado on its own when I get around to the teenage riot, probably tonight or tomorrow, but i can only hope it is a little better.

I think I will give the sweeter sherries a try. The Lustau East India Solera sherry sounds interesting! Anything else a sherry newbie should look for?

tanstaafl2 · July 27, 2012

Decided to go ahead with the Teenage Riot from Beta Cocktails this evening. Like the Transatlantic Giant I found it to be a challenging but well worthwhile cocktail.

Rye and Cynar seem like a really nice pairing. I still need to work on flaming the peel though as it is not my best skill.

In addition I tried a little of the amontillado sherry as well. More interesting than the manzanilla from last night with a nutty character and dry finish but still not one I would seek out as a regular drink. Maybe I just wasn't meant for sherry. Will see how it goes with the sweeter styles.

**FrogPrincesse** · July 27, 2012

Decided to go ahead with the Teenage Riot from Beta Cocktails this evening. Like the Transatlantic Giant I found it to be a challenging but well worthwhile cocktail.
Rye and Cynar seem like a really nice pairing. I still need to work on flaming the peel though as it is not my best skill.

Rye and cynar are great together - see the Little Italy. The Teenage Riot sounds like a good cocktail but I don't have the sherry so I am not able to try it for the time being.

Last night, Audrey Saunders' French Pearl. Plymouth gin, lime juice, simple syrup, pastis, mint.

So much more than the sum of its parts - I dislike pastis on its own, but with mint and lime it's delicious.

tanstaafl2 · July 27, 2012

Decided to go ahead with the Teenage Riot from Beta Cocktails this evening. Like the Transatlantic Giant I found it to be a challenging but well worthwhile cocktail.
Rye and Cynar seem like a really nice pairing. I still need to work on flaming the peel though as it is not my best skill.
Rye and cynar are great together - see the Little Italy. The Teenage Riot sounds like a good cocktail but I don't have the sherry so I am not able to try it for the time being.

You might like the Transatlantic Giant if you haven't tried it already and have the components. It is bourbon rather than rye but is another interesting use of Cynar.

Sherry is a pain as you don't use much and it won't last long once opened which is why I went for a smaller bottle. But in the grand scheme of things basic sherry is usually pretty cheap so it is not a wallet buster to buy even if you don't use it all. While I spend a lot of money on spirits (too much probably!) I tend to be a bit of a tight wad in other ways and will try to finish something off even if I don't like it. So there is a good chance I am going to drink the rest of that sherry!

To waste it would be alcohol abuse...

Edited July 27, 2012 by tanstaafl2 (log)

**FrogPrincesse** · July 27, 2012

Decided to go ahead with the Teenage Riot from Beta Cocktails this evening. Like the Transatlantic Giant I found it to be a challenging but well worthwhile cocktail.
Rye and Cynar seem like a really nice pairing. I still need to work on flaming the peel though as it is not my best skill.
Rye and cynar are great together - see the Little Italy. The Teenage Riot sounds like a good cocktail but I don't have the sherry so I am not able to try it for the time being.
You might like the Transatlantic Giant if you haven't tried it already and have the components. It is bourbon rather than rye but is another interesting use of Cynar.
Sherry is a pain as you don't use much and it won't last long once opened which is why I went for a smaller bottle. But in the grand scheme of things basic sherry is usually pretty cheap so it is not a wallet buster to buy even if you don't use it all. While I spend a lot of money on spirits (too much probably!) I tend to be a bit of a tight wad in other ways and will try to finish something off even if I don't like it. So there is a good chance I am going to drink the rest of that sherry!
To waste it would be alcohol abuse...

Thanks for your suggestion. For the Transatlantic Giant, I am unfortunately missing both the sloe gin - which is on my list of things to buy - and the crème de cacao, which I refuse to buy because it does not look like something I would enjoy or use very much. So I will have to pass on that one, unless someone decides to make one for me! :smile:

Does sherry degrade faster than sweet vermouth if you keep it in the fridge? So far I've only used it for cooking and have not been very picky about its quality.

mkayahara · July 27, 2012

Does sherry degrade faster than sweet vermouth if you keep it in the fridge? So far I've only used it for cooking and have not been very picky about its quality.

It depends on the type of sherry: finos and manzanillas, to my mind, degrade at about the same rate as dry vermouth or Lillet, while sweet sherries and amontillados last longer. I mean really, what's an amontillado going to do? Oxidize?

tanstaafl2 · July 28, 2012

You might like the Transatlantic Giant if you haven't tried it already and have the components. It is bourbon rather than rye but is another interesting use of Cynar.
Sherry is a pain as you don't use much and it won't last long once opened which is why I went for a smaller bottle. But in the grand scheme of things basic sherry is usually pretty cheap so it is not a wallet buster to buy even if you don't use it all. While I spend a lot of money on spirits (too much probably!) I tend to be a bit of a tight wad in other ways and will try to finish something off even if I don't like it. So there is a good chance I am going to drink the rest of that sherry!
To waste it would be alcohol abuse...
Thanks for your suggestion. For the Transatlantic Giant, I am unfortunately missing both the sloe gin - which is on my list of things to buy - and the crème de cacao, which I refuse to buy because it does not look like something I would enjoy or use very much. So I will have to pass on that one, unless someone decides to make one for me!
Does sherry degrade faster than sweet vermouth if you keep it in the fridge? So far I've only used it for cooking and have not been very picky about its quality.

I confess I like Creme de Cacao, kittens or no kittens, and use it in a 20th Century and now the Transatlantic Giant. And perhaps one or two other cocktails I can't recall. It also is useful for shooters when a party gets completely out of control and I harken back to my long lost youth as I start making shooters!

The clear Brizzard stuff seems decent enough.

As to the life span of sherry I certainly defer to mkayahara and others as I have little experience with them and am not sure I would know a good one from a bad one. But if I am experimenting with a new cocktail that calls for a Fino, Manzanilla or even an Amontillado I generally like to have something relatively newly opened since I don't have much experience with them. I am told PX sherries are virtually indestructable and Oloroso's are not too far behind.

Edited July 28, 2012 by tanstaafl2 (log)

Hassouni · July 29, 2012

Long time no mix, so here we are:

Mai Tai with 1 oz El Dorado 15, 1.5 oz Smith & Cross, 1 oz lime, 1/2oz + a bit Cointreau, 1/4 oz homemade orgeat, and a mere suggestion of 2:1 simple.

Next time gonna up the orgeat and maybe switch back to Appleton 12 instead of the ED15

Edited July 29, 2012 by Hassouni (log)

**FrogPrincesse** · July 29, 2012

Long time no mix, so here we are:
Mai Tai with 1 oz El Dorado 15, 1.5 oz Smith & Cross, 1 oz lime, 1/2oz + a bit Cointreau, 1/4 oz homemade orgeat, and a mere suggestion of 2:1 simple.
Next time gonna up the orgeat and maybe switch back to Appleton 12 instead of the ED15

Great looking Mai Tai, Hassouni!

I am in the process of making a batch of orgeat so a Mai Tai is in my near future. I will have to try one with S&C one of these days for a change. Usually I go aged agricole + Appleton 12.

Zachary · July 29, 2012

So let's talk about Sherry for a second before we get back to cocktails...

As a rule of thumb, the lighter in color your Sherry, the more you need to treat it like wine. Fino and Amontillado sherries have about a week before their salty-chalky goodness is blunted by oxidation. Palo Cortados (which are delicious by the way)... maybe 2-3. Once you get into the brown colored sherries, the lifespan of the wine increases significantly. Oloroso sherries can last six months to a year or more in a cool place. Once you start to add in sweetness (as in Cream, Pedro Ximinez, Moscatel), all bets are off. I've had open bottles of Pedro Ximinez sherries open for 24 months and they don't change significantly.

Something else to remember. All Fino, Manzanilla, Amontillado, Palo Cortado and Oloroso sherries are dry. All Pedro Ximinez and Moscatel are sweet. Sometimes, brands will sweeten an Oloroso, or blend Oloroso and Amontillado, but they have to call it by a trade name, like Lustau's "East India Solera", or Harvey's "Bristol Cream". Some producers make a generic style called "Medium", or "Cream" which is also sweetened.

Thanks,

Zachary

Hassouni · July 29, 2012

Great looking Mai Tai, Hassouni!
I am in the process of making a batch of orgeat so a Mai Tai is in my near future. I will have to try one with S&C one of these days for a change. Usually I go aged agricole + Appleton 12.

Merci, Princesse!

My reasoning for using S&C is that the original used 17 year old W&N, which I'm sure had tons of funk and hogo. My thought is that you get the sweetness, mellowness, and oak of long aging with the Appleton, and the gnarly Jamaican character of the S&C - I'm guessing this is something close to what the original rum would've been like.

tanstaafl2 · July 30, 2012

So let's talk about Sherry for a second before we get back to cocktails...
As a rule of thumb, the lighter in color your Sherry, the more you need to treat it like wine. Fino and Amontillado sherries have about a week before their salty-chalky goodness is blunted by oxidation. Palo Cortados (which are delicious by the way)... maybe 2-3. Once you get into the brown colored sherries, the lifespan of the wine increases significantly. Oloroso sherries can last six months to a year or more in a cool place. Once you start to add in sweetness (as in Cream, Pedro Ximinez, Moscatel), all bets are off. I've had open bottles of Pedro Ximinez sherries open for 24 months and they don't change significantly.
Something else to remember. All Fino, Manzanilla, Amontillado, Palo Cortado and Oloroso sherries are dry. All Pedro Ximinez and Moscatel are sweet. Sometimes, brands will sweeten an Oloroso, or blend Oloroso and Amontillado, but they have to call it by a trade name, like Lustau's "East India Solera", or Harvey's "Bristol Cream". Some producers make a generic style called "Medium", or "Cream" which is also sweetened.
Thanks,
Zachary

Thanks for the info. Similar to what I had been reading. Apparently the Fino's and Manzanillas just aren't for me. The Amontillado is a little more interesting. Will have to try an Oloroso to see how that goes. As it happens I picked up the Lustau East India sherry so the Oloroso/PX blend might prove more to the liking of my overly aggressive sweet tooth.

tanstaafl2 · July 30, 2012

Last night was a Gentlemen's night whiskey tasting at my home (I did invite a couple of ladies that I knew were whiskey fans but none of them made it).

Started the evening off with a Transatlantic Giant as the "appetizer". Then we went through a sampling of mostly American whiskeys through the course of the evening starting with a few lower proof selections and then working our way up to a couple of barrel proof whiskeys. Also was experimenting with cheese pairings to include a Danish Blue cheese, a moderately smokey gouda and a sharp cheddar. The gouda was my personal favorite among the cheese!

You will probably note a few non American options in the mix to include Penderyn, Forty Creek Confederation Oak Reserve (a brand new addition) and a couple of Dutch genevers/whiskies but with the exception of the Roggenaer and Corenwyn we stuck to the local whiskeys.

After trying the four Single Oak Project whiskeys (no consensus on the winner. Two split the vote) we moved on to some more off beat formulations like the Baby Blue corn whiskey (generally well liked but not a top favorite, BT Experimental Rice bourbon, Bernheim wheat whiskey, Leopold Bros American whiskey, High West Bourye and the Parker's Heritage Cognac finished bourbon (a favorite of mine from the evening) before moving to several of the straight bourbon's. Since the last party featured rye I didn't include any rye at the tasting. We definitely had plenty as it was. We eventually ran out of gas before getting to all of them of course. More for next time!

I did notice that Buffalo Trace products seem to occupy a fair portion of the whiskey shelf in my liquor cabinet. Wasn't necessarily deliberate but none the less it is so.

KD1191 · July 30, 2012

1 oz. jalinek 5 year old kosher plum slivovitz
.5 oz. fernet 151
1 oz. domain de montbourgeau macvin du jura
.5 oz. cynar
this is so delicous. macvin du jura is a pineau des charentes style fortified wine that has distinct and potent black tea aromas similar to those found in some grappas like the berta's of italy. insane stuff. imported by rosenthal if anyone wants to track it down. fernet 151 is 151 proof fernet create via numerous exotic and proprietary processes. it is pretty amazing on its own. if taken as a shot you think you think you survive the first massive wave of flavorants and everything will be okay, then after a split second delay you get clobbered by the gratuitous alcohol content. applied to a cocktail, you can cram tons of flavorants into a small space. the drinks template is the elaborated 50/50. this will be made again, but probably with regular fernet.
i think the secret de montbourgeau is just another labeling for their macvin de jura which is produced like a pineau des charentes but definitely has different aromas; very grappa-like. i had some fun with a bottle of macvin a few months ago. pretty cool stuff. i finally acquired another bottle, but i've been putting off opening it.

I think you're right...when I first got it home I had that suspicion, but the bottle clearly says liqueur and the more authoritative descriptions of macvin don't refer to it as such. Working off your combination above, I made the following:

1 oz Quebranta Pisco

1 oz Secret de Montbourgeau

.5 oz Fernet

.5 oz Punt e Mes

I'd never had brown, bitter & stirred with Pisco, but it was quite nice.

Edited July 30, 2012 by KD1191 (log)

**FrogPrincesse** · July 30, 2012

I made Sam Ross' Kentucky Maid last week that everyone loved (bourbon, lime juice, simple syrup, cucumber, mint). A great summer drink.

Then the following day I got a request for a Margarita. To have fun, I decided to do a side-by-side tasting with various orange liqueurs.

My favorite has always been Cointreau. My husband thought he preferred Grand Marnier but is now a Cointreau convert after doing this little test. The dry curaçao, which is great in other applications (daiquiri, etc), was a little out of place here. Note that I did not try to adjust for the sugar content and used the same recipe for all 3 versions (1.5 oz tequila, 1 oz orange liqueur, 0.75 oz lime juice). They were all good options but everyone preferred Cointreau in the end.

bostonapothecary · August 1, 2012

I think you're right...when I first got it home I had that suspicion, but the bottle clearly says liqueur and the more authoritative descriptions of macvin don't refer to it as such. Working off your combination above, I made the following:
1 oz Quebranta Pisco
1 oz Secret de Montbourgeau
.5 oz Fernet
.5 oz Punt e Mes
I'd never had brown, bitter & stirred with Pisco, but it was quite nice.

i went out and acquired a bottle of punt e mes to drink along. i used don cesar's "italia" for the pisco and the montbourgeau macvin du jura. what a drink!

i love the interplay between the two grape based elixirs. i've used that theme in the past with the "me and my grand father" which is basically a cognac & pisco sour.

fernet might be the greatest attentional feature for most people, but if you can see past that, the view is beautiful.