Drinks! (2012, part 2)

[elix]

The Duquesne agricole with grenadine and lime is delicious. I love simple drinks. Martinis, sidecars, daquiris, jack rose, etc. Not that I'd get rid of my Ramos GIn Fizz or other...involved drinks, but there's something very nice about 2-3 ingredients that just...sing.

I think, and maybe this is a weird hunch...but I think the agricole/grenadine/lime drink would wash down a lobster-type meal quite nicely.

Edited October 25, 2012 by elix (log)

[bostonapothecary]

back to the mosaics.

1 oz. lime juice

1 oz. jaggery aromatized chartreuse

1 oz. der lachs danzig goldwasser

1 oz. vinegar free tobasco aromatized gin

i have lately been turned on to Owen Jones the Grammar of Ornament which as a spectacular set of propositions intended to guide architects but also applies quite well to those that compound drinks.

"proposition 4. true beauty results from that repose which the mind feels when the eye, the intellect, and the affectations, are satisfied from the absence of any want."

"proposition 9. as in every perfect work of architecture a true proportion will be found to reign between all the members which compose it, so throughout the decorative arts every assemblage of forms should be arranged on certain definite proportions; the whole and each particular member should be a multiple of some simple unit."

"proposition 10. harmony of form consists in the proper balancing, and contrasting of, the straight, the inclined, and the curved."

[radtek]

Couldn't find a "Martini" thread so here we go:

I call this the "Deepwater Horizon" or a "BP"

Bombay Sapphire and Noilly Prat stirred- in the traditional proportions. Garnished with a jalapeño-garlic olive and a boiled Gulf shrimp. If you look close one can see the little oil-slick!

[heidih]

Couldn't find a "Martini" thread so here we go:

I call this the "Deepwater Horizon" or a "BP"

Bombay Sapphire and Noilly Prat stirred- in the traditional proportions. Garnished with a jalapeño-garlic olive and a boiled Gulf shrimp. If you look close one can see the little oil-slick!

There is a bit of martini discussion over here: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/12019-the-perfect-martini/page__hl__%2Bmartini

[radtek]

Thanks heidih! Odd that it didn't show up in my search of the forum. Nice thread. Guess I missed my chance to resurrect it!

[Chris Amirault]

In Imbibe! David Wondrich is skeptical about using tequila for a toddy, but this is pretty damned skippy:

3 oz Herradura añejo tequila

1/2 oz Citronge

1 t raw agave syrup

3 dashes Bittermens xocolatl bitters

hot water to fill

[ChrisTaylor]

Tom Collins w/ Junipero. 2 oz Junipero, ~3 oz soda water, .5 oz simple, a shy .75 oz of lime juice.

[cschweda]

Continuing tequila variations on other cocktails:

Qui' Punch

1 1/2 oz Anejo Tequilla (Kirkland - not having much to compare to, it seems pretty decent)

1 tsp agave syrup (cut in half next time)

a thin slice of lime (one of the interesting yellow sweet limes available at this time of year)

How is this different than a margarita? I build my margaritas this way -- skipping the triple sec and all that stuff -- with tequila, lime, and agave syrup. I do add salt on the rim, but I've always assumed the margarita is all about the balance between the sweet and sour.

[sbumgarner]

Continuing tequila variations on other cocktails:

Qui' Punch

1 1/2 oz Anejo Tequilla (Kirkland - not having much to compare to, it seems pretty decent)

1 tsp agave syrup (cut in half next time)

a thin slice of lime (one of the interesting yellow sweet limes available at this time of year)

How is this different than a margarita? I build my margaritas this way -- skipping the triple sec and all that stuff -- with tequila, lime, and agave syrup. I do add salt on the rim, but I've always assumed the margarita is all about the balance between the sweet and sour.

He's skipping a significant portion of lime juice (only using a thin slice to get some essence of lime in the drink) and using an anjeo tequila instead of the more traditional blanco. This is a significantly different drink than a Margarita, just as an Old Fashioned with a touch of sugar and a swath of lemon peel is very different than a Whiskey sour.

[cschweda]

He's skipping a significant portion of lime juice (only using a thin slice to get some essence of lime in the drink) and using an anjeo tequila instead of the more traditional blanco. This is a significantly different drink than a Margarita, just as an Old Fashioned with a touch of sugar and a swath of lemon peel is very different than a Whiskey sour.

Aha! Okay - got it. Thanks. Will try this later this evening (and may add a dash of mezcal.)

Edited November 13, 2012 by cschweda (log)

[mkayahara]

I would think a Margarita needs to have some kind of orange liqueur in it to qualify for the name. There's nothing wrong with a tequila sour, but it's not the same thing as a Margarita. "kipping the triple sec and all that stuff" (whatever "all that stuff" is) makes it not a Margarita.

[cschweda]

I would think a Margarita needs to have some kind of orange liqueur in it to qualify for the name. There's nothing wrong with a tequila sour, but it's not the same thing as a Margarita. "kipping the triple sec and all that stuff" (whatever "all that stuff" is) makes it not a Margarita.

The "stuff" means anything that's not tequila, lime, salt, and agave syrup. Stuff in sense of whatever folks put in there to balance out the sweet and sour -- or to create the sweet and sour. Mixes, sugar, etc.

As I said, my personal understanding of the margarita is that it's a balance of the sweet and sour against the salt and tequila -- and I'm not sure (although I know others will disagree) Grand Mariner or triple sec or Cointreau anything like it has any place in a margarita. Just my two cents -- based on no evidence other than the stunning realization that my margaritas -- or what I call "my margaritas" taste phenomenal with tequila, lime, and agave syrup -- and none of the other stuff.

Although -- in the interests of thoroughness I do admit that Rick Bayless' new -- really new -- book on margaritas and guacamoles *does* use agave syrup and Cointreau (as well as mezcal) in a few of the progressive but not "classic" recipes so I suspect you're right -- that what I'm suggesting is not really a margarita per se. Bayless indicates that the starting point proportion for his classic margaritas is 1.5 to 2 oz base liquor, 3/4 sour, 1 oz sweet. He also indicates (again from his new book) that the "classic" margarita -- i.e., the original - is 1:1:1 blanco tequila:orange:key lime juice. So, yes, my leaving out the orange does probably mean it's not classic in the classic sense -- but I do think that if we were to make the "classic" recipe as Bayless indicates, it'd be overwhelmingly tart drink and probably lose much of its complexity due to the key limes.

Maybe my version -- especially when I add bitters -- is more like a tequila old-fashioned? Dunno. Interesting, though, the possibilities.

Edited November 13, 2012 by cschweda (log)

[sbumgarner]

This provides a short summary of the agave vs orange liqueur issue in Margaritas:

http://seattletimes....appyhour14.html

Orange liqueur definitely has a place in a margarita as it's traditional and the preference and expectation of many people, myself included. That being said there's nothing wrong with agave from a taste perspective and if that's your preference there's no reason for semantics to be an obstacle to enjoyment. I sometimes add a small dash of agave my standard tequila/Cointreau/lime mixture when I'm not in the mood for something so bracingly crisp.

I don't know the ratio you use but I probably wouldn't call it a tequila old-fashioned, even with the addition of bitters, unless your margarita is almost all spirit, a scant touch of agave and just the tiniest hint of lime - if there is pronounced acidity (which to me is a must to call something a Margarita regardless of sweetener choice) even the most liberal definition of an Old-Fashioned probably wouldn't stick.

Edited November 13, 2012 by sbumgarner (log)

[EvergreenDan]

At the suggestion of chowhound user DavisSquarePro, I made his Negroni variation with equal parts Batavia Arrack, CardAmaro, and Campari. I liked it the first time I made it, but this time it was a bit too sweet. I'm not sure why as I don't think CardAmaro is much (if any) sweeter than various sweet vermouths. Maybe there is something about the juniper in gin cutting through the sugar versus the funk in the arrack reinforcing the sugar.

It is promising, but I think some dry vermouth is needed, or maybe Gran Classico. More experimentation....

[tanstaafl2]

I would think a Margarita needs to have some kind of orange liqueur in it to qualify for the name. There's nothing wrong with a tequila sour, but it's not the same thing as a Margarita. "kipping the triple sec and all that stuff" (whatever "all that stuff" is) makes it not a Margarita.

This provides a short summary of the agave vs orange liqueur issue in Margaritas:

http://seattletimes....appyhour14.html

Orange liqueur definitely has a place in a margarita as it's traditional and the preference and expectation of many people, myself included. That being said there's nothing wrong with agave from a taste perspective and if that's your preference there's no reason for semantics to be an obstacle to enjoyment. I sometimes add a small dash of agave my standard tequila/Cointreau/lime mixture when I'm not in the mood for something so bracingly crisp.

I have seen more than a few sites refer to a "pure" margarita as tequila, lime juice and agave nectar. Here is one example. And another. Clearly some bartenders still consider it a margarita, since Tommy's recipe in the link above is sans orange, and some don't. I agree there is no reason to stand on semantics and don't think it unreasonable to refer to it as at least a variation on a margarita. I'll just call it the "Pure" Margarita!

Just because people expect orange liqueur it doesn't mean you need to give into them!

That said I have experimented making a margarita "variation" drink using Agavero Orange rather than going the more typical Triple Sec/Cointreau/Curacao/Grand Marnier route. You get some orange flavor with agave nectar all in a tequila base. Seems like a good place to start to me!

I also like to use Damiana liqueur as my sweetener in another margarita variation.

3 oz of a good quality 100% blue agave blanco (I have been known to substitute with a reposado like Espolon as well. In fact I prefer it personally but if you like a little more edge to your margarita then a zesty blanco will work)

1 oz of Cointreau or good Curacao (Sometimes use Solerno for a blood orange twist)

1 oz of Damiana liqueur

4 key limes (about 3 oz usually)

stir slowly with ice

Salt the rim as desired (I usually do half the rim). Serve up in a margarita glass or over ice in a double old fashioned as desired.

Admittedly on the sweet side but makes a damned fine margarita!

Edited November 14, 2012 by tanstaafl2 (log)

[mkayahara]

I agree there is no reason to stand on semantics

Oh, I think there is. A quote-unquote "Margarita" with no orange liqueur in it is simply not a Margarita. It's a tequila sour, whether it's made with agave syrup or plain sugar syrup. It's no more a "pure" Margarita than a Sidecar made without Cointreau is a "pure" Sidecar, or a White Lady without Cointreau is a "pure" White Lady.

To me, this is in the same category as making Gimlets with fresh lime and sugar syrup, rather than lime cordial: it's a backlash against the perceived "artificiality" of certain ingredients (in this case, I assume, bottom-shelf triple sec; never mind that agave syrup is a highly industrial ingredient itself). In the process, you're losing something of the drink.

Take a look at Wondrich's Imbibe! He makes an interesting case that the Margarita is part of the old-school family of drinks known as Daisies. What's the defining characteristic of a Daisy? Orange cordial!

[ChrisTaylor]

Made a martini w/ a 5:1 ratio using Junipero and Noilly Pratt. Some orange bitters, too, just for fun. Altho' I enjoyed it more than any other martini I've made, purely because I know both of the key ingredients are good, this certainly isn't going to become a go-to cocktail any time soon for me.

[tanstaafl2]

I agree there is no reason to stand on semantics

Oh, I think there is. A quote-unquote "Margarita" with no orange liqueur in it is simply not a Margarita. It's a tequila sour, whether it's made with agave syrup or plain sugar syrup. It's no more a "pure" Margarita than a Sidecar made without Cointreau is a "pure" Sidecar, or a White Lady without Cointreau is a "pure" White Lady.

To me, this is in the same category as making Gimlets with fresh lime and sugar syrup, rather than lime cordial: it's a backlash against the perceived "artificiality" of certain ingredients (in this case, I assume, bottom-shelf triple sec; never mind that agave syrup is a highly industrial ingredient itself). In the process, you're losing something of the drink.

Take a look at Wondrich's Imbibe! He makes an interesting case that the Margarita is part of the old-school family of drinks known as Daisies. What's the defining characteristic of a Daisy? Orange cordial!

Yes, the same discussion about the Daisy shows up in that bastion of knowledge, Wikipedia. But I certainly have more confidence in the Professor's research and think the Daisy connection is likely the real origin of the Margarita, curacao and all.

Still, if the crap that passes for a martini these days in many bars can be called a martini then I am probably gonna call my tequila sour a "pure" margarita and feel OK about it!

Just sounds better and most of my friends wouldn't know what a tequila sour was anyway...

[ChrisTaylor]

Negroni w/ genever in place of London dry. Standard 1:1:1 formula, otherwise, plus a couple of dashes of orange bitters (Fee's and Regan's). This works.

[EvergreenDan]

Still, if the crap that passes for a martini these days in many bars can be called a martini then I am probably gonna call my tequila sour a "pure" margarita and feel OK about it!

That a Marita. You use 2/3's of the ingredients? You get 2/3's of the letters.

[EvergreenDan]

I went to Saloon in Somerville, MA and had their "Second Ring of Power" (I hope that's exactly right; it's not on their on-line menu), an up cocktail with mescal, Benedictine, lime, and bitters. From the flavor and color, I'd guess it had at least 1/4 oz of Angostura. Very nice, and surprisingly accessible for a mescal cocktail. Even my smoke-hatin' wife liked it.

Saloon has an astonishing whiskey menu. It's nice to see two vodkas listed at the bottom of a menu with maybe 70 whiskeys of various sorts, plus a few rums, gins, grappas, etc. We stuck to the cocktails, however.

[tanstaafl2]

Still, if the crap that passes for a martini these days in many bars can be called a martini then I am probably gonna call my tequila sour a "pure" margarita and feel OK about it!

That a Marita. You use 2/3's of the ingredients? You get 2/3's of the letters.

Tequila

Agave/sugar syrup

lime juice

Triple sec

Nah, more like 3/4's! Which is hard to do with 9 letters...

¡Viva el puro Margarita!

[elix]

I had a Last Word made with mescal in place of the gin once, which is similar-ish. It was pretty good, although I prefer the gin (or rye). I'm not super into smokiness, but...good drink.

I went to Saloon in Somerville, MA and had their "Second Ring of Power" (I hope that's exactly right; it's not on their on-line menu), an up cocktail with mescal, Benedictine, lime, and bitters. From the flavor and color, I'd guess it had at least 1/4 oz of Angostura. Very nice, and surprisingly accessible for a mescal cocktail. Even my smoke-hatin' wife liked it.

Saloon has an astonishing whiskey menu. It's nice to see two vodkas listed at the bottom of a menu with maybe 70 whiskeys of various sorts, plus a few rums, gins, grappas, etc. We stuck to the cocktails, however.

[sbumgarner]

I was in the mood for something a little bitter last night, gave this a spin:

1.5 oz El Dorado 12

.5 oz Smith and Cross

.5 oz Averna

.5 oz Cio Ciara

.25 oz Nux Alpina Walnut

2 dashes Scrappy's Chocolate bitters

Stir, strain over large ice cube, orange twist.

I originally was going to go with 2 oz of El Dorado but I'm glad I decided to cut it with a little Smith and Cross, without it the sweetness would have overtaken the drink, with it the bitterness and sweetness balanced pretty nicely. I could imagine even going 50/50 with the ED12 and S&C.

[Lahti]

Last night I treated myself to one of my own conoctions: The Liberty Flip

50 ml Bacardi Superior

10 ml swedish punsch

25 ml Coca-Cola and lime reduction

5 ml simple syrup

1 egg

Nutmeg (for garnish)

This was created for a Bacardi competition and has been on my menu for the last couple of months. It's a real crowd pleaser, and very approachable even for the novice. Not your everyday rum and coke!