Home Made Ice Cream (2013– )

JoNorvelleWalker · January 21, 2013

My freezer temperature, when I checked a moment ago, is -21.1 deg C. I wish I had one that would go to -30! But it could be worse.

I don't know if that difference would account for why my attempt at Jeni's recipe was icy. I may have done something wrong, but considering none of the other batches I've made in the ICE-100 have been unacceptably icy, I tend to blame the recipe. Jeni's recipe has less butterfat than the other batches.

By "scoopable" I mean I can take the ice cream container from the freezer and easily serve a portion. The ice cream is neither too hard nor too soft. In this respect Jeni's recipe was just perfect, similar to the alcohol containing recipes. For other batches I've made, such as the licorice, I have had to warm a serving spade and lean on it with all my weight. In other words, brick hard. Fortunately my weight seems to be increasing.

Darienne, I don't think I said "I don't like the taste of cornstarch in my ice cream," even though I believe I could taste it. The cornstarch flavor did not bother me as much as the alcohol taste in the alcohol based batches that I made. But I would prefer that there not be unintended incidental flavors in my ice cream. Xanthan gum (or maybe one of the other similar gums) should work as a stabilizer in place of cornstarch and not add any taste. I say should, because, except for this last batch of ice cream that I made, my attempts at using xanthan gum have given strange results, such as a salad dressing you could turn upside down and not spill.

Darienne · January 21, 2013

Darienne, I don't think I said "I don't like the taste of cornstarch in my ice cream," even though I believe I could taste it. The cornstarch flavor did not bother me as much as the alcohol taste in the alcohol based batches that I made. But I would prefer that there not be unintended incidental flavors in my ice cream. Xanthan gum (or maybe one of the other similar gums) should work as a stabilizer in place of cornstarch and not add any taste. I say should, because, except for this last batch of ice cream that I made, my attempts at using xanthan gum have given strange results, such as a salad dressing you could turn upside down and not spill.

Hi JoNorvelleWalker, Sorry if it sounded as if I implied that you and/or your words were the reason for my question. Not at all. Your words simply reminded me that others have said they didn't like the taste of cornstarch. I've always wondered just what it was that they tasted that they didn't like. Egg taste I can understand. Too sweet. Too sour. But what are they tasting when they taste the cornstarch? Oh well...

JoNorvelleWalker · January 22, 2013

But what are they tasting when they taste the cornstarch? Oh well...

Your question made me wonder so I consulted McGee, On Food and Cooking:

"During this wet processing, the starch granules absorb odors and develop their own when their traces of lipids are oxidized, so cornstarch has a distintive flavor unlike that of wheat flour, which is milled dry." (p. 614)

Ericpo · January 23, 2013

This seems to be the best place to pose this questoin:

Does anybody have sorbet recipes that are really exceptional? And, if so, would you be willing to share them?

Dearly as I love Ice Cream, sorbet's are my particular frozen dessert Obsession. With a capital O.

ChrisZ · January 24, 2013

Now when folks say...'I don't like the taste of eggs in my ice cream'. I do understand. I don't like the eggy taste in ice cream either.

I saw an Italian documentary on the history of ice-cream which included an Italian company showing how they made gelato in the "traditional" way. They started with a normal egg-based custard but included lemon rind in a bag of muslin, which they said stopped the base from tasting like eggs. I thought that was interesting.

I assume there is a temperature point at which a custard begins to taste like eggs (maybe over 80 degrees?) and using a thermometer to keep the custard below that point would help.

(PS - I don't currently have an ice cream machine. I just buy it by the carton.)

JoNorvelleWalker · January 24, 2013

This seems to be the best place to pose this questoin:
Does anybody have sorbet recipes that are really exceptional? And, if so, would you be willing to share them?
Dearly as I love Ice Cream, sorbet's are my particular frozen dessert Obsession. With a capital O.

Don't know if this will help or not: years ago, before anyone around here had heard of Lyme disease, my sons and I had gone raspberry picking. I smushed and scraped the fruit through the aforementioned tamis, and put the puree in the refrigerator. I don't remember what my plans were, but my younger son had the idea to spin it. (We had a good Simac at the time.) The result was rather tart, but one of the more delightfully refreshing things I have eaten. I don't think there was any added sugar.

Ericpo · January 24, 2013

YUM. I hardly even read a recipe if it says raspberries, I just fast forward to when I get to eat them. lol If you picked the raspberries fresh and they were properly ripe, no sugar would really be needed. Thanks JoNorvelleWalker.

I should just say that my sorbet Obsession includes a few foibles...I like seeds, pulp, skin...in other words, texture. I really believe an awesome sorbet is an experience that leaves you in NO doubt about what was in it.

I know that a traditoinal sorbet is filtered beyond any natural texture, but in a mass produced, artificial flavor dominated world, a REAL fruit flavor and mouthfeel are superlative experiences.

One of my most popular recipes is a peach/mint sorbet. I only make it with fresh, unpeeled peaches. It melts slowly enough in your mouth to feel like you are eating a fresh peach, with subtle differences. The color, texture, flavor, and perceived sweetness all say "Peach".

Bojana · January 24, 2013

The quality of fruit where I live is poor. My alternative are the Boiron fruit purees. Texture is removed, but the tastes one can achieve are pretty amazing. My favourite sorbet is raspberry with a touch of sugar and some raspberry liquor. Creamy and tart, amazing. Also love pineapple/mint sorbet. I tried Jeni's peach/beer sorbet but as expected I did not like it - I do not like beer.Has anyone tried chocolate sorbet? While the idea never appealed to me, I am getting more curious about it since I started making sorbets myself.

JoNorvelleWalker · January 28, 2013

Has anyone tried chocolate sorbet? While the idea never appealed to me, I am getting more curious about it since I started making sorbets myself.

The sacrifices one must make for science! Here is my novel, possibly original contribution to the art of sorbet.

The concept of chocolate sorbet had never occurred to me. However another recipe from Giorgio Locatelli's Made in Italy, one that I had filed away in my mind to one day make, was for mineral water chocolate foam. Now what, I wondered, would result if I froze mineral water chocolate foam? Fortunately I am in the US and sorbets are not a defined food in the United States. My chocolate sorbet can be whatever I want for it to be!

Locatelli's recipe had almost no sugar, and I knew it would not freeze properly. I kept his proportion of mineral water to chocolate but added much more sugar, dash of Grand Marnier, vanilla paste, and a pinch of xanthan gum:

Lindt Excellence 70% -- 100 g

Lindt Excellence 99% -- 100 g

Sugar -- 100 g

San Pellegrino -- 250 ml

Grand Mariner -- 25 ml

Nielsen Massey Madagascar Bourbon Pure Vanilla Bean Paste -- 5 ml

Xanthan Gum -- very small pinch

Melt chocolate over warm water. Mix sugar with xanthan gum, and dissolve in San Pellegrino. Bring to the boil. Remove from heat and slowly whisk in melted chocolate. Stir in Grand Mariner and vanilla paste. Pour hot mix into iSi, charge with nitrous oxide, and chill overnight. Discharge foam into prepared ice cream maker bowl and spin. Transfer to cold pan and harden in freezer.

That's all there is to it. I have to say the foam was great by itself but even better frozen. It would be neat to fry it on an anti-griddle, not that that's something that I have. It might work to hard freeze the foam without spinning it.

After hardening texture was just scoopable. Possibly more Grand Mariner would be warranted. I would not want to add more sugar. Gluten-free, probably vegan, what could be more healthful? I keep reminding myself that chocolate is a fruit.

Edited January 28, 2013 by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

Bojana · January 28, 2013

Hahaha Joe, fantastic! How would you compare it to the regular chocolate ice cream?

JoNorvelleWalker · January 28, 2013

I've never made chocolate ice cream that I can remember, but the sorbet has the consistency of ice cream, even though it contains no dairy. In my experience milk products tend to dull chocolate flavor (not that I don't love milk chocolate). But this sorbet gives a full bitter hit of intense chocolate along with the lovely mouthfeel of cocoa butter. Not to mention theobromine intoxication. (Says she, sitting here salivating uncontrollably and twitching to herself.)

Heartsurgeon · January 30, 2013

Seville Orange season is about to start here, and i'll be whipping up another batch of seville orange/caramel/Grand Marnier ice cream.

It's the adult version of a orange dreamsicle...

Ruben Porto · January 30, 2013

Hi guys, does anyone have a good sugar/water/total solids ratio for sorbet? I'm working with 34% total solids, 65% and 15% sugar content. Texture has been smooth but a bit chewy; I think the water content needs to be slightly higher.

Would be interesting to see what everyone else is doing with sorbet. I don't think it's caught on here in the UK as much as ice cream.

Many thanks in advance.

JoNorvelleWalker · January 31, 2013

I'm sorry you didn't ask the sorbet question yesterday! I just returned Ice Cream 6th edition, Marshall et al that I had on Interlibrary Loan. There was a chapter on sherbets/sorbets/ices with lots of formulation information.

Today I got a copy of Migoya's Frozen Desserts. Haven't read it yet, but maybe there is something in there.

Tri2Cook · January 31, 2013

Today I got a copy of Migoya's Frozen Desserts. Haven't read it yet, but maybe there is something in there.

It's definitely in there. Still my personal favorite book on the subject.

I'm sure there are internet sources to be found with a little digging but there's a recipe for milk chocolate sorbet in Frozen Desserts and a darker chocolate sorbet in the Fat Duck book. I think I remember there being one in one of the Plated Dessert (Art of, Neoclassic View, Modernist View) books but I haven't looked in those in years so I could be making that up.

Ericpo · January 31, 2013

Hi guys, does anyone have a good sugar/water/total solids ratio for sorbet? I'm working with 34% total solids, 65% and 15% sugar content. Texture has been smooth but a bit chewy; I think the water content needs to be slightly higher.
Would be interesting to see what everyone else is doing with sorbet. I don't think it's caught on here in the UK as much as ice cream.
Many thanks in advance.

I really wish I could answer your question with a simple ratio. The problem is that with different types of fruit, there is wide variation with both sugar and water content. Even with the same fruit, ripeness can throw calculations way off.

That being said, I generally measure fruit with a scale. 1.5 lbs fruit(peeled pitted etc) to one batch simple syrup(1/2 cup water, 1 cup sugar). This ratio works for a lot of fruits, peaches, strawberries, etc. At the least, it gives me a good starting point.

With other fruits...I generally start with those ratios unless the fruit is extremely ripe, or if it has an unusually high water content(melons, mostly).

Other than that, you just have to experiment :wink: .

One last trick to try: when making the simple syrup, it's a nice touch to infuse it with some fresh herb flavor. Mint, basil, etc. In summer, mint is really nice. Just add fresh herbs to the water and sugar befor you heat. As you combine the water and sugar, crush the herbs occasionally with a wood spoon. As the syrup cools, let the mixture steep. Once cool, strain out the herbs and proceed with the recipe.

Hope that helps!

Kerry Beal · January 31, 2013

Here is what I do based on Madeline Kamman's instructions in The Making of a Cook.

Madelaine Kamman Fruit sorbet

Source: The making of a cook

fruit pureed and put through food mill
syrup
lemon juice

Make syrup of equal amounts water and sugar, simmer 5 minutes. Keep in fridge. Put fruit puree in narrow tall container, put clean egg in it. Add enough syrup that egg floats up to between dime and quarter size. (start with about 1/3 volume of syrup as puree) Add 1 1/2 tbsp lemon juice, a bit of corn syrup and a pinch of salt. Chill several hours before churning

Ruben Porto · January 31, 2013

Jo, Tri2cook, Eric, and Kerry,

Many thanks for the helpful feedback. I came across Migoya's Frozen Desserts a while back but never gave it a try; sounds like there is some interesting stuff in there so will give it a go. Might have to be a lot of experimentation to get sorbet right.

I'm going to try some mango sorbet tomorrow and will let you guys know once I have a recipe that I am happy with.

Many thanks again.

JoNorvelleWalker · February 1, 2013

If it helps, Migoya has the following recommended min/max percentages for sorbet:

fruit puree (sweet) 40-60%

fruit puree (acidic) 25-40%

dry extracts 31-36%

stabilizer 0-1%

sugar 25-32%

I am really enjoying Migoya's book and it is pretty, as well as informational. Unfortunately he has me wishing for an anti-griddle. I bought a SS hotel pan as the best thing I could think of for hardening my ice cream, and I see that is what Migoya uses in his pictures,

In other news, even after several days, my chocolate sorbet has no iciness!

Ruben Porto · February 1, 2013

Jo, you are a king amongst men, or a queen amongst women if Jo is short for Joanne - my bad.

Many thanks yet again.

Baselerd · February 1, 2013

If it helps, Migoya has the following recommended min/max percentages for sorbet:
fruit puree (sweet) 40-60%
fruit puree (acidic) 25-40%
dry extracts 31-36%
stabilizer 0-1%
sugar 25-32%
I am really enjoying Migoya's book and it is pretty, as well as informational. Unfortunately he has me wishing for an anti-griddle. I bought a SS hotel pan as the best thing I could think of for hardening my ice cream, and I see that is what Migoya uses in his pictures,
In other news, even after several days, my chocolate sorbet has no iciness!

In the Alinea cookbook (iirc), they recommend an easy replacement for the anti-griddle:

Simply go to the store and pickup a nice brick of dry ice. Place a kitchen towel on the counter, place the dry ice block on top, and then place a metal sheetpan ontop of that.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Baselerd (log)

JoNorvelleWalker · February 1, 2013

Jo, you are a king amongst men, or a queen amongst women if Jo is short for Joanne - my bad.
Many thanks yet again.

You are most welcome, and thanks for the wonderful help you have given me. (Jo is short for Jo Norvelle, I am a girl.)

JoNorvelleWalker · February 1, 2013

In the Alinea cookbook (iirc), they recommend an easy replacement for the anti-griddle:
Simply go to the store and pickup a nice brick of dry ice. Place a kitchen towel on the counter, place the dry ice block on top, and then place a metal sheetpan ontop of that.

Unfortunately neither an anti-griddle nor a block of dry ice are very practical for me: the anti-griddle for price, and the difficulty of dry ice. I've never seen dry ice for sale, and if I did I'd have no way to bring it home.

But dry ice does remind me of the ices and frozen confections of my youth. In the summer at the shore the vendors would store their wares in chests of dry ice. The products were sold very cold. To this day I cannot enjoy a popsicle or similar served at normal freezer temperatures. It just does not seem right.

Kerry Beal · February 2, 2013

Most reasonable sized towns will have places with dry ice - check the outfits that supply gases to industry like Praxair. The have it available in a variety of grades for different purposes.

JoNorvelleWalker · February 3, 2013

The nearest town here is about 700 people, but there seems to be a Praxair about 15 miles away. I don't have a vehicle, which makes fetching dry ice impractical, although I see Praxair will deliver.

In other news my cream supply has spoiled, and it seems to be a good time to defrost my freezer.

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