Home Made Ice Cream (2013– )

[timpoblete]

Here is what I have done,hope it's clear. I am in a rush now, if you have any questions I'll come back later to answer.

Bojana, or anyone that has read Corvitto and Ruben (icecreamscience) - I'd rather not use skimmed milk powder. Has anyone tried to substitute whole milk or skimmed milk in Corvitto's recipes and heat-treating the milk according to Ruben's technique? Also, how does the target 6-10% fat end up? I plan on trying one of his chocolate recipes today, which limits the fat to 8%.

By the way, after having read Corvitto's work, which seems to be geared towards more industrial machinery in terms of his recipes, I did find that his explanations on the Anti-Freezing Power and balancing this against the Negative Anti-Freezing Power (or Hardening Power) of ingredients was very helpful.

[jjahorn]

I haven't been working with Corvitto's recipies (yet, but I've got them now and started to look through it), but you have to change your recipe a lot if you don't want the milk powder - it is there because it binds much of the water.

[Bojana]

Skimmed milk is used to bind excess water. If you do not want to use it, another approach could be Jeni's, using corn starch. I do nto have skimmed milk powder, milk here is 3.5% instead of 3.6% (Corvitto), yogurt 6% instead of 3.6% so I am making quite some adjustments but the final ice cream was beautiful (5.5% fat).

In my fridge maturing is rhubarb jasmine sorbet, cannot wait to see how that one will turn out. I will freeze part of it as pops for the kids and the rest as regular sorbet. Does anyone know if you should churn ice cream before pouring it in pops molds?

[mgaretz]

I want to make cherry flavored ice cream, (ok not ice cream, it will be non-dairy), that is reminiscent of cherry pie. I start with a commercial soft-serve base that is mixed with water. I have tried substituting the water with pure tart cherry juice, and also a blend of 50% cherry juice, 25% water and 25% Torani cherry syrup. The first was edible, but didn't taste like cherry pie. The second was closer, but since the syrup also contains sugar, I'm afraid if I use more that it will get overly sweet and taste too much like cherry cough syrup. In my next try I'm thinking of eliminating the cherry juice and doing 75/25 water to syrup.

Any thoughts? Anybody have a recommendation for a good cherry extract that will impart that cherry pie flavor?

Edited May 24, 2013 by mgaretz (log)

[timpoblete]

Bojana - The Jasmine Rhubard combination sounds good!

From what I understand from Corvitto's book he claims that it's Lactose in the skimmed milk powder that binds to water. This should mean then that lactose in milk will bind to water. Lactose is a sugar and in readings from icecreamscience it's denatured proteins that bind up water molecules, which is also present in skimmed milk powder (50% lactose, 38% casein protein, which is likely denatured by the evaporation process to turn it into powder), not lactose, which is a sugar (sugars have an anti-feeezing capability which also aid to make the ice cream softer). Someone please correct me if there's a hole in my logic (outside of that massive run on sentence :-))

Back to the ice cream, I ended up substituting the proper amount of whole milk for the skimmed milk powder and water in Corvito's chocolate recipe to maintain the casein/lactose levels, which is achieved after heat treat at 71.4C for 35 mins in a 30cm pan (which is equivalent evaporation time to 60 mins in a 23cm pan). Everything seemed to bind up pretty well and I ended up with a good consistency. The chocolate mix (Mast Brothers chocolate) is aging in the fridge and I'll throw it into the machine later today.

[DianaM]

I have not tried making hazelnut, but I wonder if the surface texture could have been due to the ground nuts?

I can understand your patience running out after forty minutes! Many a night my patience has been sorely tried, not to mention my poor feet. The extra twenty minutes might have made an improvement, but I suspect a bigger contribution to the final result would have been to let the mix age over night. An interesting experiment might be to divide a double recipe of mix into two portions. Freeze one half immediately and the other half after a day in the refrigerator.

Thank you, Jo. I will try to age the custard in the fridge next time, and also, will attempt either the plain vanilla, or an infusion like Chai tea, or Earl Grey.

I was using a commercial hazelnut paste, and maybe they add some oil in, raising the fat content (as compared to the hazelnut paste Ruben was using). I am guessing this too might throw the formula off. Still have got a lot to learn about the ingredient ratios, but it sure is a delicious learning experience. :-)

[Darienne]

I'm wondering whether it makes any difference to age a cornstarch pudding mixture over night in the fridge.

[Bojana]

I want to make cherry flavored ice cream, (ok not ice cream, it will be non-dairy), that is reminiscent of cherry pie. I start with a commercial soft-serve base that is mixed with water. I have tried substituting the water with pure tart cherry juice, and also a blend of 50% cherry juice, 25% water and 25% Torani cherry syrup. The first was edible, but didn't taste like cherry pie. The second was closer, but since the syrup also contains sugar, I'm afraid if I use more that it will get overly sweet and taste too much like cherry cough syrup. In my next try I'm thinking of eliminating the cherry juice and doing 75/25 water to syrup.

Any thoughts? Anybody have a recommendation for a good cherry extract that will impart that cherry pie flavor?

I would start with a good cherry puree. Boiron makes excellent fruit purees, black cherry may be what you need (they also have cranberry & morello cherry mix). For sorbet, they recommend adding 1% kirch. You can also download Boiron's ice cream sheets for exact formulations, they use atomised glucose and invert sugar a lot.

[jjahorn]

Any thoughts? Anybody have a recommendation for a good cherry extract that will impart that cherry pie flavor?

I'm not sure about cherry pie flavour, but I like the extracts from Watkins (http://www.jrwatkins.com/products/a1694768-2033-46d2-86c4-8808e3f29672/)

Maybe you can use something like that as a base and add some spice for the pie flavour. I like their root beer, but was not so impressed with raspberry

[jjahorn]

Disaster today.

I pulled out my base from the fridge and dumped it into the strawberry puree to mix and churn and I think to myself - Why do I smell garlic?

I took the wrong container and put a liter of blue cheese dip for my chicken wings onto the strawberry puree instead of the ice cream base!

Anyways a question - now that I am looking through Corvitto's book and I wanted to know what people use for the various 'neutral ingredients'

Some parts of the book explain what to use (Casein - which I don't know where to get in Germany - or even the name.... Egg yolk).

I was wondering thoguh what other home ice cream makers out there use for these neutral ingredients.

Are there any common ingredients that I can buy as emulsifier or stabilizer (gelatin or Agar-agar???)?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I've never made garlic ice cream, but I have had it. (What better flavor to be served at a garlic festival?) Blue cheese and strawberry sound like they would go together quite well, actually.

Casein is the major protein in cow's milk. It is used in cheese making. That being said, I don't know where one would buy casein in the US either. I'd try Amazon. Gelatin is a traditional stabilizer of ice cream manufacturing in the US, though it's not used much any more. David Lebovitz has information on using gelatin. Two other stabilizers to consider are guar gum and xanthan gum. I use egg yolk as my emusifier, and I get best results without any added stabilizer.

[AnnieWilliams]

Olive Nation has pure fruit extracts. You don't need to use much. I have the cherry extract and it's delicious. If you taste a little bit it will taste like pure fruit. I absolutely love Watkins, but they are still artificial. Olive Nation is natural.

I tried David Lebovitz's vanilla ice cream and it was awesome. I think I did 6 yolks instead of 5. But it was incredible. I used my small red Cuisinart ice cream maker that my mom gave me, and poured it into a square Tupperware container when it was done churning. That's the only one I've made so far. I'd like to try chocolate next time.

[paulraphael]

I'm a big fan of the combination of gelatin and xanthan gum. These don't have the potency of the superaditive combinations used in commercial ice cream, so you have to use more. But this is a good thing if you're making small batches. You can measure these ingredients in 10ths of a gram instead of 100ths.

I find gelatin to be unsurpassed in mouth feel and melting qualities. Its thickening power is dependant on temperature, so it has comparatively little effect on the viscosity of the ice cream after melting in your mouth. Xanthan is a stronger stabilizer in ice cream, and is unaffected by temperature. It thickens the mix even after melting. You have to be careful to not overdo the xanthan. Just like when thickening sauces, you can get unpleasant textures if the concentration is too high.

I usually use about 1g/L gelatin and 0.3 to 0.4g/L xanthan.

Most pastry chefs I know buy pre-mixed ice cream stabilizers. These usually include a combination of guar, locust bean gum, and some variety of carageenan. The mixtures can be pretty high tech and are effective in minute quantities. If you don't want to go crazy experimenting, these are a perfect solution. I shy away from them because I don't want to be dependent on any manufacturer for a proprietary formula. If they change or discontinue it, then I have to start over. This was my torment as a photographer, and it got me mixing things from scratch whenever possible. I also like the opportunity to learn how the individual ingredients work.

[Bojana]

Most pastry chefs I know buy pre-mixed ice cream stabilizers. These usually include a combination of guar, locust bean gum, and some variety of carageenan. The mixtures can be pretty high tech and are effective in minute quantities.

Do you (or someone else) happen to have a directional guideline for the ratios of different ingredients? I have all of them separately so I would like to make my own mix.

[paulraphael]

Most pastry chefs I know buy pre-mixed ice cream stabilizers. These usually include a combination of guar, locust bean gum, and some variety of carageenan. The mixtures can be pretty high tech and are effective in minute quantities.

Do you (or someone else) happen to have a directional guideline for the ratios of different ingredients? I have all of them separately so I would like to make my own mix.

This is a big topic, because many of the ingedients are superaditive (meaning that 1+1 = more than 2). So it’s not just that each ingredient has a unique effect, but that many combinations have unique effects as well.

I haven’t found a good primer on constructing combinations. My own formula took a lot of work, and it just includes two ingredients that exhibit no superaditivity.

The Corvitto book offers only the most general overview.

Evan at cookingissues.com sent me the following recipe:


100g Xanthan Gum


175g CP Kelco Unflavored Locust Bean Gum


175g TIC Gums Pretested Flavorless Guar Gum


50g Mono-glycerides


50g Di-glycerides


[Mix all ingredients together, then sift and store in an airtight container.]

This mix is intended to make up 0.35% of the recipe by weight.

The glycerides are emulsifiers, not stabilizers. He sent me this during a conversation about eliminating eggs from ice cream. If your recipe has eggs, you could omit the glycerides and probably use a lower percentage of this mix. He recommends a minimum stablizer content of 0.3%, and a maximum of 1%.

Unfortunately, this is nothing more than a recipe. There’s no theory or background included, so you’d be on your own to experiment. But it’s a starting point.

This information originated with Chef Francisco Migoya, who used to be Thomas Keller’s executive pastry chef. I don’t know his ice cream first hand (sadly!)

Edited May 28, 2013 by paulraphael (log)

[Bojana]

Thank you Paul, this gives a direction. I'll report back, planning to make some ice cream soon, even though my Musso is still broken, so using the pre-frozen small machine - not ideal for experimenting.

[paulraphael]

Cool, let us know.

[mgaretz]

The Cremodan line of ice cream and sorbet stabilizers are a pre-mixed blend of these ingredients. Various companies sell them in small quantities to consumers.

[Darienne]

At the risk of being considered a pest, I am going to repost my ignored question from May 24 and broaden it a bit.

"I'm wondering whether it makes any difference to age a cornstarch pudding mixture over night in the fridge."

Also, what is the 'aging' process which occurs when a mixture is left overnight, cornstarch or otherwise? It improves the flavor how?

Thanks.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

At the risk of being considered a pest, I am going to repost my ignored question from May 24 and broaden it a bit.

"I'm wondering whether it makes any difference to age a cornstarch pudding mixture over night in the fridge."

Also, what is the 'aging' process which occurs when a mixture is left overnight, cornstarch or otherwise? It improves the flavor how?

Thanks.

This reference may help:

http://www.uoguelph.ca/foodscience/dairy-science-and-technology/dairy-products/ice-cream/ice-cream-manufacture/ageing

With aging my own mixes I sometimes see a considerable increase in viscosity.

As far as cornstarch pudding, I believe it is better served chilled several hours rather than warm (though I have been known to eat cornstarch pudding hot). However if the cornstarch pudding contains egg yolks and has not been heated close to boiling, the starch will degrade due to enzymatic action of the eggs.

[paulraphael]

Aging ice cream isn't about flavor; it's about allowing the fats to fully crystalize, and the proteins and polysaccharides to fully hydrate. This all improves body, texture, and whipability. Having the mix chilled as much as possible also speeds freezing, which gives you the smallest ice crystals.

I don't know about cornstarch pudding mixes. Is this being used in an ice cream recipe? I experimented briefly with corn starch as an ice cream stabilizer and did not find it as good as gelatin or gums. Starches in general perform pretty poorly. Especially arrowroot. That's the biggest failed experiment I've had.

Edited May 30, 2013 by paulraphael (log)

[Darienne]

Thank you JoNorvelleWalker and paulraphael for explaining the situation to me and for the Guelph website.

And, no, it is not a cornstarch pudding 'mix' I am talking about, rather the mixture of cornstarch, cream, sugar, etc that I use to make our ice creams. It costs less, has fewer calories in it, no egg taste, and satisfies my DH and guests who think I am brilliant. And who am I to disabuse them of this notion?

Thanks again.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Darienne, I would let your mix cool over night if possible. You might want to try the experiment of spinning half a batch of mix green and half after it had aged a day. See if it makes a difference for you.

[Darienne]

JoNorvell, thanks. Over the last few years of making ice cream I have done both. Sometimes it sits over night and sometimes I put it into the dog food freezer...the coldest of our freezers...for a couple of hours and then churn it. OK. I guess I don't have a sophisticated palate. But then I am never tasting a split batch of one mixture or even one flavor.

And I don't eat much of the ice cream...feed it to others or just give it away to neighbors as thank yous for whatever.

Yesterday I made a mixture of a chocolate cardamom cornstarch-based ice cream. It sat overnight in the fridge and was churned this morning. Overnight guests are coming. Tastes good...but...who knows? Folks are just so blown away eating home made ice cream that they are thrilled to get it. No, I don't know anyone where I live who makes home made ice cream.

Next batch gets the taste test. Thanks.

[jjahorn]

I agree that the reviews are usually not impartial - They don't get home made enough to evaluate, and never get more experimental flavours...

I have a question for anyone that might know :

atomized glucose 21 DE and atomized glucose 52 DE

If I understand correctly these would basically be dextrose with starch filler - 21% and 52% dextrose and the rest starch?

Has anyone tried mixing their own instead of buying it (for those that have used it)?