Braising questions

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I think Mjx is right.

Do everything as you did, but submerge the lamb shank or at least nearly so.

From reading the braising seminar, the participants concluded (I think) that braising with less liquid turned out better.

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/61979-braising-lab-%232-discussion/

[Mjx]

I can't remember where I got the 'to about halfway-up' or 'a couple of inches for really large cuts' (either way it's never more than the latter, and usually less), but this does ensure a volume of liquid substantial enough to maintain a consistent temperature, and not cook away in a hurry if the lid isn't on perfectly.

[patrickamory]

For a tagine, I really highly recommend the 11.5" unglazed Rifi from tagines.com. You have to season it but the unglazed clay adds a completely irreproducible flavor that I really enjoy. It's only $40 and every braise I've made in it has come out beautifully.

Be aware that you need a flame tamer and since earthenware has to be brought up to heat slowly, even longer cooking times!

[pacman1978]

No matter what I am braising I would not consider anything less than 3 hours and that would be at around 175 C. In my opinion braising is the amongst one of the simplest ways of cooking as it allows you to get on with other stuff. I particularly like making a jus out of the cooking liquor at the end as well!

[C. sapidus]

Braising has never been something I've done well. . . .

All About Braising by Molly Stevens is an excellent resource for general information about braising, different cuts of meat, cooking vessels, etc. Fantastic recipes, too. Excellent eGullet thread:

http://forums.egulle...-molly-stevens/

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Thanks! Molly Stevens All About Braising is now on its way to me from the library. To join the following, which have been living on my dining table:

Ghillie Basan, Tagines & Couscous

Madame Guinaudeau, Traditional Moroccan Cooking

Meera Freeman, A Season in Morocco

Jeff Koehler, Morocco

Mourad Lahlou, Mourad New Moroccan

Paula Wolfert, Couscous and Other Good Food from Morocco

Paula Wolfert, The Food of Morocco

Koehler and Wolfert's books are the ones I would cook from. The other works were interesting, but the recipes are impractical (i.e. a Guinaudeau recipe calls for six pints of honey) or don't particularly speak to me.

Also on my dining table is Molly Stevens, All About Roasting, which I just realized (duh) is by the same author.

As to my poor lamb shank, last night I removed the meat from the pot and strained the broth. I reheated the beans for my dinner. Not sure yet what I want to do with the lamb and broth.

[Stephen Bosse]

Not really much for me to add to this thread, since it's mostly covered already. But I would like to urge you not to get discourage. Braising is one of my favorite cooking methods and produces some of my favorite dishes. I would recommend trying a traditional Bolognese Sauce made from cubes of veal and pork. I use a 2:2:1 ration of veal stew, pork shoulder, and beef stew. Brown, deglaze with onions, garlic, and wine, add tomatoes and herbs, cover and simmer for 3 hours. The BEST.

[SylviaLovegren]

I think your temperature is a bit too low, hence the lack of reduction and the vegetables not really being cooked enough. Up the temp a bit and shorten the cooking time.

[nickrey]

I check every couple of hours to make sure not much of the liquid has cooked away (I use a Le Creuset, too, and the lid isn't super tight, so there's some loss).

Just reread this. Try a cartouche, it should reduce the liquid loss.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

There has been some progress.

First, thanks for the additional comments. Yes, I realize now that my cooking temperature was way too low. I did use a cartouche (not that I knew what it was called) and I had essentially no liquid loss from my braise.

I have not tried making it in years, but I used to cook a Bolognese sauce recipe from The Romagnolis' Table. This was back in the 1970's before I had Le Creuset. I might be tempted to try again this winter. And now I am hungry for lasagne.

Last night I degreased the broth and used it to make risotto Milanese, with which I served the lamb shank reheated in a splash of wine, on a bed of cilantro. The result was something I would have been pleased to be served in a restaurant.

This afternoon I received my unglazed earthenware tagine and was planning to cook in it tonight. However the seasoning process is long and I ran out of time. It's cooling in the oven now. What I did have for dinner was the rest of the lamb shank. Nothing was left but three pieces of dry bone.

What I plan to fix for the first dish in my new tagine is "lamb tagine with medjoul dates" from page 387 of Wolfert's the Food of Morocco. I have been drooling over this recipe for weeks. I am undecided whether to make it straight or to add a pinch or two of Zamouri's ras el hanout. I wonder whether the tagine will be able to take the heat of a 400 deg F oven, even though the company I purchased the tagine from assured me it would be OK, as long as the tagine was already hot when it was placed in the oven. We shall see.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

...made from cubes of veal and pork.

I just noticed "cubes". Do you not grind or mince the meats in this version? That sounds like it could be really good.

[patrickamory]

400 degrees sounds hot for an unglazed tagine... however if the company says it's okay, it probably is...

[Stephen Bosse]

...made from cubes of veal and pork.

I just noticed "cubes". Do you not grind or mince the meats in this version? That sounds like it could be really good.

No I don't mince the meat. After it has had a good 3 hour braise, it shreds down rather easily. In fact, here are a couple of pics of the Bolognese recipe that I did last week.

First is pre-braise. Second is finished result.

Rough-hewn Tagliatelle

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My braising experiments were interrupted by hurricane Sandy. As an update, I received my Le Creuset tagine, and I now have two tagines: the Le Creuset and the unglazed Moroccan one from bramcookware. I have braised in each of them. The lids are the same diameter, and I can use the unglazed earthenware lid on the Le Creuset bottom!

The first recipe I made was the Lamb Tagine with Medjoul Dates that I mentioned above. I braised in the Moroccan tagine, but then I transferred to the Le Creuset bottom as I did not have the courage to place the unglazed earthenware in the very hot oven.

The dish was quite good, however I am still having a problem with braising times and temperatures. In the 2005 tagine thread http://forums.egulle...g/page__st__150 Paula Wolfert suggests 170F for a tagine braising temperature. However, at least in my hands, that low a temperature just does not work for the cooking times given in her recipes.

I next made Spicy Shrimp Tagine, from page 156 of Jeff Koehler's book Morocco. Indeed I have now made it twice. I used the iron Le Creuset as I did not want shrimp flavors in the earthenware. Results were perfect. The finished dish looks better than the pictures and it was easy. The shrimp braises for only 12 minutes however. Leftovers from the second batch should be my dinner tonight, possibly with pasta.

The next experiment was Chicken with Dried Apricots and Pine Nuts, Wolfert's The Food of Morocco page 282. Wonderfully delicious, but again I had to cook way longer than the recipe calls for.

As was suggested I've now read Molly Stevens' All About Braising. There are a couple of recipes that interest me, including Neapolitan Beef Ragu, which sounds similar to a Bolognese but with a whole piece of meat. Now that stores are starting to open after the hurricane, tomorrow I hope to be able to find something to braise, or at least something to eat.

[BKYLN]

I did a major double-take at the amount of liquid you used. That's your problem, plain and simple.

[pacman1978]

I can't see where it says how much liquid he used - where is that? To me it is just a sensible ratio that covers well but not drowning

I love the bolognese idea of shredding the meat after braising I've done something similar a couple of times to make a duck ragu and that was fantastic so will definitely try that in the future.

[radtek]

Braising temps are around 200-225F but the oven needs to be closer to 375F and will take up to 4 hours depending on cut of meat, size etc... It's a little easier to do braising stovetop but also easy to dry the meat out as well.

You'd think it would be simple and it is but can easily be F'd up- especially if one is on a deadline and doesn't get the parameters right.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I did a major double-take at the amount of liquid you used. That's your problem, plain and simple.

If the liquid reply was to me, for the lamb shank I used a level of about an inch in my smallest Dutch oven. For the other recipes that I mentioned I followed the authors' instructions as exactly as I could. Were you thinking I should use less liquid or more liquid?

My latest experiment was pork spareribs braised in balsamic vinegar and red wine. I got the idea from someone named Nemmie in a blog I found from google:

http://scottnemmiefa...onzola-polenta/

I started with a full rack of ribs, parboiled then browned them. After seven hours on the stovetop the ribs were tasty but not tender, After five more hours in the oven at 225F the next day, they were tender but a bit stringy. Good, but not perfect. By education (decades ago) I was a protein chemist, and this is very frustrating. Now I'm wondering if I cook the ribs further if they will just get tougher.

[radtek]

You might have got one bad rack of ribs. Happens sometimes. What impressed me though was the polenta!

A trick to ribs is to do your rub, marinade etc and then a visit in the pressure cooker for 5 minutes with a natural release. Then smoke or braise. The juice from the PC can form the basis for the sauce. No rack of ribs should take more than 5 hours at 225 even without parboiling!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The polenta I made for the ribs was plain with butter on it, which is how I like my polenta. I don't think the ribs were bad, just that I don't have the right combination of time and temperature yet.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Braises are my idiot-proof dinner party go-to. I brown large cuts (osso buco or lamb shanks) or smaller chunks of lamb or pork, less frequently beef, deglaze the pot (All Clad dutch oven) with appropriate wine, pile the meat on browned onions, garlic cloves, a bouquet garni, add appropriate broth almost to cover. Cover with a paper lid and put in a 275 to 300F oven for 3 to 5 hours, checking on doneness after 3. Always, always tender as love meat and ambrosial juices.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I have had two wonderful braises since my last update. I cooked some beef chuck well browned in pork fat in my smallest Le Creuset with carrots, fennel, onions, garlic. The last of it I served over fettuccine (not home made, though, I confess) with much fresh parsley.

The second was another batch of Wolfert's chicken with apricots and pine nuts, even better than the first time I prepared it. I have acquired a SimmerMat that I use in conjunction with my ILSA heat diffuser. Both of them together allow me to maintain very low braising temperatures as Paula Wolfert suggests. But with temperatures between 170-175 degrees F, cooking times are many hours. The food can cook all day. Not having to do with braising, but I am pleased that I was able to make some quite good pseudo Moroccan stone baked flatbread on my first attempt.

I have another small piece of chuck and I am wondering what to do with it.

[radtek]

Great to see your efforts are coming along nicely! Practice practice practice!

I like doing sauerbraten with chuck instead of bottom round. Alton Brown has a great recipe.

Lacking specific equipment here was my first attempt with a plate over the casserole dish and foil:

And then I inherited mom's 4qt Corning ware with lid (at least 50 years old):

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I need help again. This afternoon I bought some pork spare ribs (not the baby back ribs or the country spare ribs shoulder cut). I have an Italian style recipe I have made several times before that calls for braising, however this time I had hoped to adapt it to cooking the ribs in a pressure cooker, as now I have a pressure cooker, and when braising spare ribs I never seem to get them cooked enough.

EG has spare rib threads on babecue, smoking, steaming, and cooking in the oven. Unfortunately there is nothing I could find here on the subject of braising pork spare ribs or on pressure cooking them.

If I braise traditionally, what would be a good length of time for spare ribs? It always takes longer to braise anything than I expect. Maybe braising or pressure cooking are not the best techniques for spare ribs? I am open to suggestions. I could even try spit roasting them for something different.

[Smithy]

My spare rib braises are typically done at 200 - 225 for about 4 hours. I start checking the ribs at, oh, 3-1/2 to 4 hours by prodding them with a fork. Sometimes they've taken as long as 5 to get tender. If I haven't seen any activity in the tenderness direction by 4 hours then I generally step up the temperature - that would be, say, from 200 to 225. I don't think I ever go above that in my oven braises, but it depends on your oven. Remember that for a braise you want the liquid to be just barely at the simmer - slow, occasional bubbles.

In my experience the heavy Le Creuset oval french oven gets better results - meaning more tender - than a heavy baking pan with foil; on the other hand, the oval shape won't allow more than one rack to lie flat and it's difficult to get both racks to cook evenly. If I'm doing 2 racks in the Le Creuset then I'll rotate them partway through, to keep them exposed more or less the same to the braising liquid. In addition, the Le Creuset takes longer to come up to temperature than the heavy baking dish with foil, so the whole process takes longer if you haven't preheated the pot by browning the meat and bringing the braising liquid to a boil. (I generally don't do those steps with spare ribs; I've taken to just loading them into the pot or pan with a little liquid, covering it, putting it in the oven and monitoring it.) Starting from a cold pot and meat, I think I'd allow more like 5 hours in the Le Creuset at 225, but I'd check the temperature to make sure I had just a bare simmer, and adjust the temperature accordingly.

Sorry I can't help with the pressure cooker question. I don't think spit-roasting spare ribs would make you feel happy about your purchase.