Washing vegetables in the kitchen sink

[GlorifiedRice]

Hi,

I keep hearing Rachael Ray telling her viewers that "its cheaper to buy all your veggies in the start of the week

bring them all home and fill your kitchen sink up with water and throw em all in and wash them dry them

and bag them as soon as you get home so they are good to go all week..."

I dont know about YOU but I put dirty dishes & raw chicken trays in there. My son washes his gross hands in there

after coming inside. The kitchen sink is where all the yukky germy things go..

I certainly dont wanna pt raw veggies in there that I will be eating raw later.

My ex mother in law once put a raw head of cabbage straight on the sink floor to maker stuffed cabbage at my

house and I was nauseated and shocked, I made her throw that leaf away and I got a plate for her to put it on instead.

Am I the odd one out or does everyone use their sinks this way?

[Deus Mortus]

Well my kitchen and most kitchens I have seen have a dual basin, one I keep clean and use to prepare food and the other is for stuffing dirty dishes in, but even if that wasn't true, I'd think you'd be able to use it after cleaning it.

Still even if there were some germs there, no big deal, you'll eat them and your immune system will get a boost, you only get really sick from some quite rare diseases, scary stuff like salmonella are seriously rare and while keeping raw poultry away from the rest of your food is smart, the chance of you having a chicken that has salmonella are really quite low and assuming you don't just lick the raw bird, the chances of enough bacteria to get through to really play havoc is even lower and in that astronomically small chance that you do get it, it is treatable, it's a month on the porcelain throne, but hell, bad things happen.

You're more likely to die in a car accident while walking to the grocery store to buy the chicken then dieing from salmonella!

Edited June 11, 2011 by Deus Mortus (log)

[Twyst]

scary stuff like salmonella are seriously rare and while keeping raw poultry away from the rest of your food is smart, the chance of you having a chicken that has salmonella are really quite low

It's actually not that rare here in the US at all. Between 5% and 15% (depending on who you listen to) of all chicken tested in the US contains salmonella.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Twyst (log)

[Porthos]

Am I the odd one out or does everyone use their sinks this way?

Nothing that I'm going to eat goes into the sink. Ever. Period. Cooked or raw. I normally don't even put things I'm going to eat raw on the counters. Call me over-cautious if you want, but I've had serious food poisoning and if doing simple things may help me or my family avoid future illnesses then I'm doing those things.

[Deus Mortus]

scary stuff like salmonella are seriously rare and while keeping raw poultry away from the rest of your food is smart, the chance of you having a chicken that has salmonella are really quite low and assuming you don't just lick the raw bird, the chances of enough bacteria to get through to really play havoc is even lower and in that astronomically small chance that you do get it, it is treatable, it's a month on the porcelain throne, but hell, bad things happen.

You're more likely to die in a car accident while walking to the grocery store to buy the chicken then dieing from salmonella!

It's actually not that rare here in the US at all. Between 5% and 15% (depending on who you listen to) of all chicken tested in the US contains salmonella.

It still needs to be consumed in quite large amounts to get you sick, as long as you aren't pregnant, elderly, have an immune system disorder or feeding children under the age of 4 or so, you're still safe, people relax, it isn't that bad, even if you do get it, it isn't that bad, trust me, I have had it and all I had to do was sit on my toilet for about two weeks, got a lot of reading done too.

People are way too scared about disease and germs!

[Lisa Shock]

My mom taught me to wash my sink out every night with a sanitizing mix of bleach and water. That, plus washing after each use makes it pretty clean at any given time. It doesn't take long, and, I usually wipe down counters and doors and the floor at the same time. Takes about 10 minutes, tops.

But, I tend to follow modern sanitation practices and rarely wash my hands in the kitchen sink, either. I wash in the restroom before starting cooking and only use the kitchen sink for handwashing during cooking. (When I remodel, I'm putting in a handwashing sink.) I have a hands-free soap dispenser for both hand soap and dish soap next to the sink. I sanitize my sponges by running them through the dishwasher, and, replace them frequently. I also use side-towels for a lot of tasks and just toss those into the laundry when I am done with the specific task, same day.

My last step in cooking anything is wiping down the sink, so it does get cleaned a couple times a day, minimum.

[Twyst]

It still needs to be consumed in quite large amounts to get you sick, as long as you aren't pregnant, elderly, have an immune system disorder or feeding children under the age of 4 or so, you're still safe, people relax, it isn't that bad, even if you do get it, it isn't that bad, trust me, I have had it and all I had to do was sit on my toilet for about two weeks, got a lot of reading done too.

People are way too scared about disease and germs!

40,000 cases of salmonella are serious enough to be reported in the US every year, and we average 600 deaths per year from it. Id prefer to practice safe food handling techniques than to just "relax" and raise the risk of making someone ill needlessly through carelessness.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/cdc-says-no-progress-in-salmonella-research-51031/

Edited June 11, 2011 by Twyst (log)

[Emily_R]

Wow -- I guess I just don't see what the big deal is here. I absolutely put my veggies in the sink if need be -- so I'll fill the sink with water to rinse off a particularly sandy batch of spinach, or to revive a tired bunch of cilantro.If I use any kind of contamination threat (like chicken) in the sink, I make sure to scrub it down with antibacterial soap afterwards. I mean, the sink is constantly bathed in a supply of dishwashing soap and water as I do dishes throughout the day...

[Twyst]

Wow -- I guess I just don't see what the big deal is here. I absolutely put my veggies in the sink if need be -- so I'll fill the sink with water to rinse off a particularly sandy batch of spinach, or to revive a tired bunch of cilantro.If I use any kind of contamination threat (like chicken) in the sink, I make sure to scrub it down with antibacterial soap afterwards. I mean, the sink is constantly bathed in a supply of dishwashing soap and water as I do dishes throughout the day...

I do the same. I usually also use a little bleach to clean my sink once a week and microwave my kitchen sponge every few days because those things are rife with bacteria. I was spouting off salmonella stats as a rebuttal to the statement that salmonella is very rare, not to the practice described in the OP, I think washing veggies in the sink is fine as long as you do it intelligently.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Twyst (log)

[ScoopKW]

I am not a fan of bleach as a sanitizer. Sure, it works. But it's toxic and a thoroughly nasty thing to be tossing down the drain.

I prefer anionic sanitizers - the acids will cancel out once they contact an alkaline substance down the waste stream. Costs about the same as bleach and doesn't stink up the house.

I clean my sink, spray some sanitizer on it, and rinse veg. No problems. Not even a concern.

[nickrey]

I'm curious, if you don't use your kitchen sink where do you wash the veggies?

[GlorifiedRice]

I am not a fan of bleach as a sanitizer. Sure, it works. But it's toxic and a thoroughly nasty thing to be tossing down the drain.

Actually Bleach converts back to harmless salt and water when it degrades.

[GlorifiedRice]

I'm curious, if you don't use your kitchen sink where do you wash the veggies?

In a big plastic bowl I got from HMart specifically for washing veggies, like napa cabbages for kimchi

[Will]

We don't keep our sink clean enough most of the time to wash stuff in it (we usually use a big bowl or a salad spinner), but my in-laws do, and they wash greens in the sink. I don't really have a strong feeling - I don't see a problem with doing it this way if you keep your sink clean.

[Jenni]

Wow -- I guess I just don't see what the big deal is here. I absolutely put my veggies in the sink if need be -- so I'll fill the sink with water to rinse off a particularly sandy batch of spinach, or to revive a tired bunch of cilantro.If I use any kind of contamination threat (like chicken) in the sink, I make sure to scrub it down with antibacterial soap afterwards. I mean, the sink is constantly bathed in a supply of dishwashing soap and water as I do dishes throughout the day...

Ditto. Though it helps that 2/3 of the house is veggie and meat and fish are rare for my Dad.

[Karri]

It still needs to be consumed in quite large amounts to get you sick, as long as you aren't pregnant, elderly, have an immune system disorder or feeding children under the age of 4 or so, you're still safe, people relax, it isn't that bad, even if you do get it, it isn't that bad, trust me, I have had it and all I had to do was sit on my toilet for about two weeks, got a lot of reading done too.

People are way too scared about disease and germs!

40,000 cases of salmonella are serious enough to be reported in the US every year, and we average 600 deaths per year from it. Id prefer to practice safe food handling techniques than to just "relax" and raise the risk of making someone ill needlessly through carelessness.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/cdc-says-no-progress-in-salmonella-research-51031/

You get a lot of your facts from the christian post?

[Qwerty]

Simple enough to clean the sink before you do anything in it...whats the problem?

[Twyst]

You get a lot of your facts from the christian post?

Nope, but when they are directly quoting the cdc and are the first thing to pop up on google I don't see the harm.

Do you have any sources that dispute these figures or anything useful to add to the conversation?

Here is more confirmation of those figures.

http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agriculture/science_and_impacts/impacts_industrial_agriculture/foodborne-illnesses.html

http://www.cureresearch.com/s/salmonella_food_poisoning/stats_printer.htm

http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/foodborne_illness.html

Any more questions?

Edited June 12, 2011 by Twyst (log)

[Mjx]

I've found that washing produce in advance and storing it in the fridge seems to hasten its deterioration, so I don't do it; I wash things as I need them, usually individually, or in a large bowl if it's greens or something like peas. The sink just seems awkward and clumsy.

But I do clean the kitchen sink with a disinfectant and boiling water after splashing anything about it that is unlikely to be taken care of by ordinary hot tap water and dish soap, which does leave the sink clean enough to wash vegetables in (and takes very little time or effort). I do this because I believe that the presence or absence of microorganism, rather than providence and optimism, determine whether or not you come down with revolting infectious diseases

[Karri]

The problem is when you are directly quoting the CDC, and this is off the links you posted:

"43,694 cases (1998)

40,596 annual cases notified in USA 1999 (MMWR 1999)

18.37 per 100,000 in Canada 20003

39.4 new cases of salmonellosis per 100,000 population was notified in Australia 2002 (Yohannes K, Roche P, Blumer C et al. 2004, Australia’s Health 2004, AIHW)

7,756 new cases of salmonellosis was notified in Australia 2002 (Yohannes K, Roche P, Blumer C et al. 2004, Australia’s Health 2004, AIHW)

39,574 new cases of salmonella occurred annually in the US 2000 (Health, United States: 2002, NCHS, CDC) "

"40,000 cases of salmonellosis are reported in the United States. Because many milder cases are not diagnosed or reported, the actual number of infections may be twenty or more times greater.1 ... An estimated 1.4 million cases occur annually in the United States"

Fun math time. 40 000 * 20+ = 800000, but then in the next direct quote from the cdc the number is 1.4 million. And the other two sites don't really work with figures. They have just written articles in a factual manner.

"In 2001 (the most current collection data available at the CDC), only 11.3 cases were found per 100,000 people. That is a percentage risk of only 0.0113%. Is there some under-reporting? Of course - mild cases probably go undetected. The 0.0113% represents the total risk of an average American (in New Zealand the risk is a bit higher, for some reason)- including all sources of infection and all strains. So the infection from an egg, is even smaller, and I'll look at that in a bit. Moreover, 26% of the cases were from children under the age of 5. So if you're older than 5 years of age, then your risk of getting salmonellosis is only .00836%

Just for reference, the odds of getting hit by lightning are 1 in 280,000 or 0.00036% (according to NOAA). - 31 more times likely to get salmonellosis than to be struck by lightning.

Now, the above figure is all types of salmonellosis, the one from eggs is usually only S. Enteritis. S. Enteritis accounts for 17.7% of the isolates found. So this means that

your risk of getting salmonellosis from S. Enteritis is only .002% and it falls to .00148% if you are over the age of 5."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5151a1.htm

[Corinna]

I've found that washing produce in advance and storing it in the fridge seems to hasten its deterioration, so I don't do it; I wash things as I need them

This was my first thought when I read the OP, but if this encourages people to cook more frequently, maybe it's not such bad advice. I haven't found it to be a good solution for me, but maybe it helps people who aren't as used to cooking (probably Ray's target audience) to plan meals and budget time to cook during the week. I feel the same way about buying pre-chopped veg (esp at a premium price).

[avaserfi]

I've always washed my fruits and veggies in the sink without issue. When I first started cooking I had issues with deterioration, but discovered this was due to improper handling/storage. I haven't had those issues in years.

As far as cleaning the sink goes, I wash it with soap and warm water daily. I've never bothered using a sanitizer simply because I've never really thought about it. I have a gallon of iodine I use, mixed with water, as a sanitizer for brewing. I guess I could easily mix up some in a squeeze bottle for kitchen use as well.

What mixture or product(s) does everyone use as their kitchen sanitizer?

[Mjx]

I've found that washing produce in advance and storing it in the fridge seems to hasten its deterioration, so I don't do it; I wash things as I need them

This was my first thought when I read the OP, but if this encourages people to cook more frequently, maybe it's not such bad advice. I haven't found it to be a good solution for me, but maybe it helps people who aren't as used to cooking (probably Ray's target audience) to plan meals and budget time to cook during the week. I feel the same way about buying pre-chopped veg (esp at a premium price).

I should have mentioned that in our household, we're cooking for just two, which means that washing produce for any given meal takes so little time, it really makes no sense to get a lot of produce and pre-wash it. I can see that this might be a great solution for someone who's cooking for several people.

. . . .

What mixture or product(s) does everyone use as their kitchen sanitizer?

I prefer boiling water; I scrub down the sink using dish soap, and sluice it with a lot of boiling water, paying particular attention to the drain. Sometimes I used some stuff called Rodalon.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Add another to the "I wash fruit and veg in my sink" camp - after dishes and whatnot are over, my kitchen sink gets sprayed down with hydrogen peroxide 10 vol and then rinsed with boiling water. Any microorganism that can live through that deserves to take its chances against my robust immune system!

I'd never prewash fruits and veg, though - my original thought upon reading the first post was "ugh, and then throw half of it away because you'll end up with a fridge full of slime!" I wash as I need the veggies / fruit, just before I chop.

[annabelle]

I scrub my sink with Barkeeper's Friend after I do the final dishes of the day, each day. I also use a capful of household bleach in my dishwater each night. It removes any tannin traces from coffee pots and glassware. It also sluices out the garbage disposal when I let the water out and run the disposal prior to starting the dishwasher. I don't wash our dishes in the kitchen sink. I wash them in the dishwasher, but I do wash our pots and pans and knives in the sink.

Anyway, I wash fruits and veg in the sink as I need them. If anyone here is thinking it is possible to build up a tolerence to salmonella or that it is no big deal, that is wrong and potentially quite dangerous. E. coli, as we have recently seen in Europe, while normal flora in our colons, it is not the same E. coli that can kill you. Poor sanitation is usually at the root of food poisonings.