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DanM

Fish Chowder help in my Kosher kitchen

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I'm looking for help making a good fish chowder. Most of the recipes I see online call for bacon or clam juice, which I will not use in my kosher kitchen.

I am thinking about using a potato leek soup as the base for the soup, which is simply leeks, potato, and garlic sauteed and simmered in veg broth with a bouquet garni. I will only puree a quarter of it to help thicken the soup. I will then add some chunks of Alaskan cod and simmer until barely done. I will then add some cream and butter to finish it out. Garnish with chives.

Any thoughts or additions?

Thanks!

Dan

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I once used turkey bacon in place of pancetta when making chicken marsala for a pork-averse (not Kosher) friend, and it turned out very well. That, or smoked turkey legs, might add a nice, meaty touch to a chowder.

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I once used turkey bacon in place of pancetta when making chicken marsala for a pork-averse (not Kosher) friend, and it turned out very well. That, or smoked turkey legs, might add a nice, meaty touch to a chowder.

Presumably the inclusion of any meat would be problematic, if the OP wants to use cream and butter.

It seems to me like the real benefits of either fish or clam juice would be salt and umami, so any ingredients that would add those two elements would be good. A little smoked salt would be nice for a bacon-y touch. Or how about using a good dashi as the base stock? (Is dashi kosher?)

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Perhaps a hint of smoky paprika and either mushroom powder or fresh mushrooms if the bits are acceptable. I like Trader Joe's fire roasted corn in creamy dishes as the bit of char adds some depth and the corn gives you some sweet hits.

There is also the other avenue of choosing a wine to expand the flavors within the dish. Not my area but perhaps others have suggestions. Off the top of my head I am thinking sherry or vermouth.

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I once used turkey bacon in place of pancetta when making chicken marsala for a pork-averse (not Kosher) friend, and it turned out very well. That, or smoked turkey legs, might add a nice, meaty touch to a chowder.

Presumably the inclusion of any meat would be problematic, if the OP wants to use cream and butter.

It seems to me like the real benefits of either fish or clam juice would be salt and umami, so any ingredients that would add those two elements would be good. A little smoked salt would be nice for a bacon-y touch. Or how about using a good dashi as the base stock? (Is dashi kosher?)

Right. I have clearly still not grasped the finer points of Kosher eating. :laugh:

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This will be a strictly dairy dish, no meat products. Dashi is an option, but darn near impossible to find kosher. I do have some smoked paprika that I could add. The corn is a good idea, but the roasted frozen corn would require kosher supervision, which unfortunately it does not have.

The fun and creative process of working in a kosher home. :)

Dan

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Smoked salmon, chopped into little pieces, instead of bacon?

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You could make your own fish stock to replace the clam juice.

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I'm pretty sure you could make your own dashi since both bonito and kelp are kosher IIRC.

--edit I can't find a kosher source for the bonito flakes, one recipe suggested using the skin from smoked whitefish instead. Smoked cod would be a good addition to a kosher fish chowder I think


Edited by 6ppc (log)

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How about swapping in a reduction of court bouillon for the vegetable broth in the potato leek soup base? Some of the seasonings used in bouillabaisse, such as saffron (possibly the smoked kind) or coriander could add something, too.

Also, one of the Asian fish sauces could deepen the flavour, as could a tiny (nearly subliminal) amount of ground anchovy.

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I'm pretty sure you could make your own dashi since both bonito and kelp are kosher IIRC.

--edit I can't find a kosher source for the bonito flakes, one recipe suggested using the skin from smoked whitefish instead. Smoked cod would be a good addition to a kosher fish chowder I think

If it's going to be a dairy dish, the addition of bonito won't make it kosher.

http://kosherfood.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=kosherfood&cdn=food&tm=20&gps=123_627_1132_668&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.astray.com/recipes/%3Fshow%3DKosher%2520japanese%2520soup%2520stock%2520%28dashi%29


Edited by SobaAddict70 (log)

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I thought fish was considered pareve? Or am I missing something here?

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I thought fish was considered pareve? Or am I missing something here?

Bonito is in and of itself both kosher & pareve- I *think* the issue is that the processeing of the fish into dried blocks/flakes whatever is not under kosher supervision making the end product not kosher.

--more info from Chabad.org as to why a fish chowder containing Dairy may not be kosher at all:

Fish with Meat or Dairy

Fish and meat may not be cooked or eaten together. However, unlike milk and meat, fish and meat may be eaten at the same meal as separate courses. Silverware and plates which have been used for fish may only be used for meat after they have been washed. Between the fish and meat courses, one should eat something that does not stick to the palate and take a drink (preferably other than water). Some people also rinse their hands slightly between courses.

Customs vary regarding the use of fish and dairy. Most communities permit the combination of fish and butter. In certain communities, fish is not combined with milk or cheese. Fish and dairy may be served at the same meal with separate plates and silverware.


Edited by 6ppc (log)

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Smoked whitefish, as one poster mentioned above, would be a great way to get the smoky flavor. Russ & Daughter's sells salmon "wings," which are basically the fin areas of their smoked salmons.

Fire roasted tomatoes are a possibility. Plenty of products with smoke nowadays.

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I make a kosher fish chowder using the following general recipe:

Saute 1 medium onion chopped in butter in the pot you will use for the chowder

Cut 1lb baking potatoes into 1/2" cubes, add to the pot and add 2 1/2c water

Add 1 bay leaf and 1T thyme

Bring to a boil until potatoes are just soft on the outside but firm in the middle (about 10 min)

Mash the potatoes to thicken the soup. (If I am making a large quantity, I will use instant potatoes - some are OU)

My son likes corn, so I will add 1C frozen corn unless fresh is available

Season - I usually over season since I want to keep stirring to a minimum after adding the fish

Cut either 1 1/2 lb cod, haddock or pollack into 1/2" to 1" pieces

When cooked (about 5 min) add 1C heavy cream

Mound the chunks of fish, the onions, and potatoes in the center of soup plates and ladle the broth around.

I usually garnish with chives

Prep time 10 min

Cooking time 15min

4 main course servings

The chowder should be eaten within an hour. It does not keep in a crock pot for lunch on Shabbat, although you might add the fish and keep it on warm, then add to the cream before serving (I have never tried this for Shabbat lunch).

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I thought fish was considered pareve? Or am I missing something here?

Bonito is in and of itself both kosher & pareve- I *think* the issue is that the processeing of the fish into dried blocks/flakes whatever is not under kosher supervision making the end product not kosher.

--more info from Chabad.org as to why a fish chowder containing Dairy may not be kosher at all:

Fish with Meat or Dairy

Fish and meat may not be cooked or eaten together. However, unlike milk and meat, fish and meat may be eaten at the same meal as separate courses. Silverware and plates which have been used for fish may only be used for meat after they have been washed. Between the fish and meat courses, one should eat something that does not stick to the palate and take a drink (preferably other than water). Some people also rinse their hands slightly between courses.

Customs vary regarding the use of fish and dairy. Most communities permit the combination of fish and butter. In certain communities, fish is not combined with milk or cheese. Fish and dairy may be served at the same meal with separate plates and silverware.

You are correct about the Bonito. Much like lox, certification is necessary due to the processing of the fish. Next time I am in Monsey, NY I will give Sushi Mitsuyan to see if they can sell me some or know of a source.

Some Sephardic communities do not mix fish and dairy. But I am of Ashkenazi descent, so I will enjoy my lox and bagel with cream cheese.

In the end, I made the leek and potato soup, added a package of Alaskan Cod bits and pieces from Trader Joes, and some green beans for kicks. As much as I would have loved to make fresh stock or court boullion, I am 4 weeks post-surgical and did not have the motivation to get that fancy. In the end, it turned out pretty darn good, but may have benefited from more smoked paprika.

Dan

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Dan, you might want to look into Brekfish. It's a bacon substitute made from smoked salmon, certified by the OU.

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