How we ate growing up

[Katherine]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

I grew up in the sixties, when “modern women”, although they were mostly still housewives, were no longer doing much cooking. My mother was very old-fashioned, and fixed everything we ate at home from scratch. She had a garden (poorly maintained and not particularly productive), and canned lots of tomatoes. We ate a lot of casseroles, “goulash” (macaroni in tomato sauce), fatty pork chops layered with potatoes and cream of mushroom soup (yum), big ol’ tough-and-gristly beef liver with onions (which I hated), sometimes swordfish or halibut, utterly plain and bland (which I cannot eat to this day), and homemade breads, cookies, and pastries.

My mother was a “heath food fanatic”, and back then what that meant was you didn’t trust the government figures as to how much of various nutrients/vitamins/minerals you needed to ingest. Considering that at the time they were recommending that growing children consume large quantities of sugar to get the calories they needed to grow up strong and healthy, and that ½ of an orange was enough fruit and/or vegetable to fulfill your need for vitamin C daily, it made no sense to trust them. So if you figured the vitamin C requirement was way low, probably everything else was low, too, including the protein requirements. So mostly what we ate was giant slabs and piles of meat. I remember roasts of beef, pork, ham, and lamb, baked chicken, meatloaf, oven burgers (made always from a meat loaf blend). But most fondly I remember the flank steak. The five of us would polish off two full-sized flank steaks in a meal, and there was rarely a few little slices left for my father to eat with his eggs in the morning.

My sister is a vegetarian now (no dairy, but fish), and says that meat never really agreed with her. Faulty memory chip, she was always first to be served, took the largest portion, and came back for more the most times.

Was meal time important?

Meal time was the default. There were no other options.

Was cooking important?

As with meal time, it was the default. Meals were always prepared from scratch.

We occasionally bought frozen food as snacks, but mostly when my thrifty father found a real deal on something that was discontinued. So I clearly remember coming home from school and fixing myself a box of carrots with marshmallow sauce or corn with brown sugar glaze from the freezer. I think we had a case of each of those to use up, and they weren’t bad.

But when you ask,"Was cooking important?" if you mean as an art form or vision or other ambition, then, no.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

They just corrected the miscreants, and they stopped doing it.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother did all the cooking (except for training us to make cakes and cookies) until I entered junior high and she to work to earn some money for college for us. Then, I would be home for a couple hours before she was, so my sister and I began pulling shifts in the kitchen. At first it was just things like spaghetti, made with homemade canned tomatoes and sauce, but after a while I started looking through the cookbooks for interesting ideas. I remember a creamy mushroom soup that I put through the blender.

One thing that really stands out in my mind is that my own trajectory and my sister’s were so different. After a few meals of things like half-raw baked eggplant casserole, her cooking was no longer in demand, and she stopped. She only occasionally cooks now, and her husband does most of the cooking.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occasions?

We used to eat out a lot, several times a week. We had restaurants all over the place (within a 45 minute radius) that we liked, inexpensive to moderate in price. Sometimes my father would come home, having heard about a restaurant that was more than an hour away (keep in mind that where we lived was more rural than suburban, so the restaurant density wasn’t very high), and off we’d go. I think we ate in every restaurant in the area that was suitable for families.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

We rarely had more than one guest at a time. I vaguely recall a time when there was a child’s table, but it seems to me it was because there were too many people for one table, and the adults sat at one, the kids at the other.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

My mother occasionally had a glass of wine, and I think she went through a case every year or two. We never drank it at home with meals. I think the first wine I drank at home was one that I made when I was in high school, fascinated by a British home-winemaking book I had gotten by mail from a book list. It was for an orange wine. The problem was that the gallon bottle called for was a 5-qt, not 4 qt like the ones we have here, and so after I put in all the ingredients and filled it up with water, it was a lot sweeter than the recipe intended. Fermentation was really slow, and clearing took forever, due to the nature of factory orange juice. When it did finally clear, about the time I moved away to college, it was like a dessert wine. Strong and sweet.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

I recall an occasional prayer, but I don’t think they happened every day. It wouldn’t have been on Sunday after church, because we didn’t do a “meal” on Sunday, it was more of a grazing thing. One of our favorites was to buy baked beans at the local doughnut shop on Saturday night. The leftovers Sunday noon tasted completely different. That doughnut shop had ethereal Bismarcks, too.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

I seem to recall that back then and there, Wednesday was Prince spaghetti day, and Friday was Prince lasagna day. (Hey, Anthony!) We had pasta almost that often.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

I’m into quality food, and I’m into home cooking, but I’d have to say I think I’ve got the best of both my father and my mother in me. My father never cooked (specialty: jelly omelet—don’t ask), but he loved to eat, whereas my mother was an able cook who was so obsessed with nutrition and health trends that it minimized whatever pleasure she might have gotten from the food. It seems like maybe she really couldn’t tell the difference, and was operating on a different paradigm, where a tasty end product was good, but non-essential. She fed us all-natural snacks that were the precursors of power bars (which I cannot eat, and I have vowed to never again consume food that tastes like medicine), things flavored with yeast, blackstrap molasses, and other nasty stuff. Liver powder, anyone? I recall when I went away to college. I came back home for Thanksgiving, and she had gone low-fat, and we’re not talking minor adjustments here. She made the “cream” gravy for the turkey with skim milk. She was so pleased, telling us that “It tastes the same.” No, it didn’t. Neither did the evaporated milk she whipped into a foam with artificial sweetener taste like whipped cream. Ugh.

So I live to eat, and I only eat things that are worth eating.

My daughter and I always ate home-cooked meals at the table when we were home together (breakfast was a biggie), and she has told me repeatedly since she moved away how much she appreciates the meals, and the box lunches she got growing up. She is, however, spoiled by the quality of the food at home, and less willing to consume inedibles she encounters.

I will close with a story to illustrate my philosophy. When my daughter was about 14, she and her girlfriend decided to go trick or treating. (She is small and could pass, her girlfriend is not.) Afterwards, they were chatting on the phone. Her girlfriend said that her mother had gone through the bag and inspected all the candy to make sure that none was tampered with. My daughter turned to me and asked, concerned that I had never cared enough to do this, why I had not. I told her that I hadn’t needed to, as I had so spoiled her with expensive high-quality candy that I knew she would never have eaten any of that stale junk.

She realized that this was true.

She wailed to me, “You ruined my childhood!”

[bloviatrix]

They occupied sort of a middle position between those two extremes, I think. We ate dinner at home most of the time, but going to a local Chinese restaurant or to the nearest Jewish deli, Gitlitz, didn't necessite dressing up and didn't have to be "justified" as a celebration of something or other.

Pan, I don't know if you're on the UWS much, but Gitlitz recently put in a "revived" appearance. The drug store that was in the same location closed, and as part of the renovations, they removed the signs. There, stained on the brickwork was the name Gitlitz, reminding West Siders of the deli that once stood on the corner. Alas, as the renovations continued, the Gitlitz name was once again covered up. This time by a bank sign.

[bloviatrix]

When you were finished, you also had to ask to be excused from the table. 

No, Toliver, it was not too long! Thanks so much for this.

I fixed on this tiny detail from your post, because I, of course, had to be excused too (to hit the suds, then homework.) My young adult daughter had to do the same. But I've noticed that, (er ahem, old lady clearing throat) no one I know has children who ask this.

Thank you for bringing back a memory of my childhood. Asking to be excused was a requirement in my parents house as well. I had supressed this until now.

[Foam Pants]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

My food culture was Midwestern Germanic. Meat with a side of meat sort of thing. My grandma's house was very traditional midwest farmhouse. Breakfast was a simple affair. Dinner was served late afternoon and usually was burned meat with gravy, bread, jam, jello something or other, mashed potatoes, cooked veggies, and lots of coffee. Supper was this again out of the fridge. Summer brought lots of produce in Iowa and Grandma kept three gardens so it was plentiful. Eating at home was simpler. It was just burned.

Was meal time important?

We almost always ate supper together. It wasn't about the food, it was to hold us together. The actual time of the meal was unimportant and often depended on what sporting season it was. My father was a small town coach and we would schedule our meals to fit around baseball, basketball, you name it. The meal was a vehicle to get an audience together to tell stories to. Storytelling is a family pastime.

Was cooking important?

My mother, wonderful woman that she is, is one of the crappiest cooks I have ever met. Thank god she doesn't use the internet much and will never read this. Eating as a family was important, food was a sidebar. Holidays were a different matter entirely. Then food took center stage and mom turned out a wonderful turkey with good German stuffing that looked dazzling on the sideboard.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

In my mother's house, manners were optional. I often was the most uptight about these things, telling my father how disGUSting sucking taco off of your fingers is. Manners at Grandma's were farmhouse manners. Elbows were on the table just as often as gravy which means every meal. But mess something or be rude to her and your will get a beatin' which my backside learned when I spread a full glass of milk across her impeccable formica.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother had cooking included in her job description which I think she felt suckered into. Mom hates cooking and it shows. The woman burns everything including soup. She would hit on something and stick to it for months at a time. I remember about a five months of chalky, over-cooked chicken breasts pan fried with two cans of mushrooms.

My dad built our house and, during the construction, we spent a year with a utility sink and a microwave as a kitchen. We ate microwave hotdogs and meatloaf... for a year. I feel that I also should mention that the temporary toilet was in the same room as the micro and sink which also reinforced just how I felt about those meals.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

We sometimes ate chinese. There was this little restaurant at the edge of nowhere when I was a kid called Peking Palace. Now they have a huge fancy place but, back then, they shared space with a bike shop. When I was very young, the lady who ran the kitchen would come out and show me how to use chopsticks. She didn't speak my language and I didn't speak hers but I can use chopsticks thanks to her. I never understood how strange this experience was until I grew up and realized how ethnically homogenous Iowa really is.

I ate a lot of ballpark popcorn during the summer which counts, I suppose. It was a real treat to get a paper cup full of Coke and some popcorn as I watched my dad call the shots from the 3rd baseline.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

At Grandma's the kiddy table was huge and the highlight! I had cousins and cousins and cousins. Hell, I had kids of cousins. It was a crazy kid fest. We would have gravy poured over white bread, fudge brownies and grandpa's ice cream till we puked then go out and harrass my aunt's prize chickens. If grandpa was having a good time, we would get great stories about the wild times he had as a youth. My mother didn't approve as grandpa used the word "damn" like some people use the word "uh."

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Wine? you mean like Night Train or Thunderbird?

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

We were not religious except for my grandma. Once a year my grandma hosted a pancake breakfast for her church group. All these white-haired ladies and hunched over old men in seed caps scattered over the lawn, eating cakes off of paper plates. Grandpa would sit on the porch and walk down the steps to flip the pancakes and would refuse to sit with god's people.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Our rotating menu consisted of several weeks of this then several weeks of that. My sack lunch was half a bologna sandwich with an apple until I hit 14 when it switched to half a dried beef sandwich.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Well, I like to think that I can cook better than mom. Her burn everything till cinder mentality made an impact on me, though. When asked how I like my beef I say "as rare as you feel comfortable with." I try to harrass my boyfriend into eating at the table and listening to my crazy stories but it rarely happens. It is a part of my life I miss more than I can say.

Edited August 3, 2003 by Foam Pants (log)

[hjshorter]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

My mom grew up in a suburb of Boston and her parents are from Boston and Milwaukee. My dad is a native of Los Angeles whose parents migrated there from Oklahoma. My family recipes include New England, Okie, Mexican, German and Polish standards. Casseroles and spaghetti made up a lot of our meals.

When I was small my mom took a child nutrition course. As I was growing up we drank skim milk, ate unsweetened cereals, and almost never had dessert after dinner. I remember scrounging change (no allowance) to walk to the store and buy some candy occasionally. Our Halloween bags were confiscated and the candy doled out over time every year.

We had specific meals for Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc., and if they were deviated from we all protested. Mom made fifteen different kids of Christmas cookies every year to give as gifts. I have all of her recipes and try make some of them every year.

Was meal time important?

Yes, we sat down to dinner together every night until I got into high school and was busy with afterschool activities much of the time.

Was cooking important?

Mom was always trying new recipes from magazines and cookbooks, not always successfully. She subscribed to the Grande Diplome Cooking course for a while in the late 60's - early 70's and always had a lot of cookbooks.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

A fork poked in the offending elbow. Table manners were ruthlessly enforced. And we had to ask to be excused from the table.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother, until I was ten. After that I started teaching myself and would often have dinner finished when she came home from work (we were latchkey kids).

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Special occasions rarely. We never had any money.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

My parents rarely entertained and we lived far from most family. Kids usually sat at the dinner table and were expected to behave themselves.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

I don't remember. I was allowed to drink wine with meals when I turned sixteen.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Neither of my parents is very religious but we always said grace.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Not a rotating menu but meals were rigidly planned. My mother planned for two weeks of meals at a time. There were no seconds allowed. Leftovers were always planned for and incorporated into another meal. Every bit of food in our house was eaten even if it was a little past its prime. I hate leftovers to this day.

No snacking was allowed between meals, and at mealtimes we were expected to clean our plates whether we were hungry or not, and whether we liked the food or not. So I had a childhood of not eating when I was hungry, and forcing myself to eat when I wasn't. We were also not allowed to "fill up" on beverages during our meals, so milk was served after dinner. I still to this day have to remind myself to drink my wine during dinner.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Not a whole lot. We dinner together, and breakfast, and when Scott is working at home we try to have lunch together too. I try to prepare some of the special holiday dishes mom made. But meals are much less rigid than mine were growing up, and I don't force the kids to eat things they obviously don't like. We do insist on good manners, however.

Edited August 3, 2003 by hjshorter (log)

[fifi]

This is very interesting. I am noting a lot of common themes. Here is my two cents.

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

First I must put a time frame on our food culture as it changed over time. I was born in ’46 so I guess that makes me a leading edge boomer. When I was small, we had the typical meal around the table in the evening. We lived in a family “compound” in Houston and I had grandmother, great grandmother, a great aunt that visited and they were all known for some culinary specialty. My mother followed suit and was, at that time, a plain but good cook and very interested in nutrition for that time. She didn’t get nuts with it though. My dad’s culinary adventures were sporadic. For a time he kept bees. We also had a family compound down on the coast so seafood that we caught was a big part of the picture. Over the years my parents developed into adventurous and excellent cooks. We always had a garden either at home, at the requisite country place, or both.

Was meal time important?

Well, I am not sure important is the right word. It just “was”. It was just what we did.

Was cooking important?

I think it was. My parents used cooking for a lot of purposes. For my own part, my early and continuing interest in science was grounded in cooking. I started making all of the holiday cookies from about age 7 or 8 and I had to know why cookies did what they did. Cooking was often recreation. Dad had to try some new outrageous meat recipe. Mother was experimenting with herbs. We did a lot of special things together that were a lot of fun. Mother and I made violet jelly one time. Dad brought back a 50 pound bag of live crawfish from Louisiana (long before EVERYBODY ate them). That would have been a welcome gift if he hadn’t arrived home at midnight. I have a lot of memories like that. There are too many to post here.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

I don’t remember penalties. I suspect that manners were learned early and learned well. Mother had “that look” and any transgressions were soon corrected. And we did have to ask to be excused. We still do that.

Who cooked in the family?

Mother did almost all of the cooking until I was about 11 or 12. Then, as time went on, dad weighed in more often with recreational cooking. Then my mother went back to work and I was a latchkey kid. It was my responsibility to get dinner started. That was fun. I enjoyed the responsibility and the opportunity to experiment. When I hit on something particularly good, I reveled in my dad’s praise. He was a “no bullshit” kind of guy, so when he said something was good, you knew it was true.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Restaurant meals were definitely not common. We would go out occasionally with an aunt and uncle. Special occasions were always celebrated at home with a cooking orgy.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

The only time this happened was at the family gatherings for the holidays. Then it was a matter of not enough room at one table, not a segregation of the kiddies.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

I don’t remember wine. We were a beer culture and in moderation only. I am told that my grandfather would give me sips of his beer when I was a toddler. It is a German thing.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Never. We weren’t a religious family. Somebody would usually find something to say for Thanksgiving, though. Odd.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Good heavens, no. That would have cramped creativity. Mother did always have a baked ham in the fridge when I was little. Menu ”must haves” depended upon who was around. If Great Aunt Minnie showed up for one of her visits, the first things out of the kitchen were lemon meringue pie and chicken and dumplings.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Not much now on a daily basis. The two kids are grown and scattered. I have been divorced for many years. But when we do get together, cooking is a big part of the celebration. They are more into the restaurant scene than I am so when I visit them we do more of that than we did when they were younger. When we travel together, food is a big part of the experience and has been since they were young. They are adventurous eaters, learned their manners very young and have always been a delight to dine with. My son is quite a good cook. My daughter is starting to get interested (about time). I guess the tradition of food as fun and creativity is alive and well.

Edited August 3, 2003 by fifi (log)

[maggiethecat]

It was my responsibility to get dinner started. That was fun. I enjoyed the responsibility and the opportunity to experiment.

How could I have forgotten this? (That's one of many reasons why I love this thread.)

I wasn't a latchkey kid, but sometimes my mother was elsewhere(Hairdresser? Bridge party?)and she'd ask that I start dinner. The responsibility thrilled me, challenged me and made me feel All Grown Up. It was never anything fancy: chili or Curry Captain or stew, but I revelled in being the Boss in the kitchen. I was prouder of my Swiss Steak at fourteen than I am for much better, harder dishes I make now.

Thanks, fifi. That transported me back to the kitchen at 805 Rue Des Plaines.

[lafonda]

The environment in which my immediate family ate our meals was somewhat affected by my sometimes single mother's work schedule and whomever was our caregiver of record.

But I'll tell you, it certainly was an interesting trip, and it affected my early adult life, career-wise (I was a line cook for fifteen years).

My maternal grandmother had the deepest influence on my life and eating behavior--she was an excellent professional cook and I spent a great deal of time with her. She was from the south, Arkansas, (Southern cooking is what has informed my sensibilities). She loved to cook and loved to make people happy with her cooking. She would watch you eat and wait to see the expression on your face. This was a performance for her. She and my Grandfather had their own garden as well. (One of my favorite meals was and is fried summer squash, sliced tomatoes, and fried potatoes with cornbread and beans)!

My other Grandmother was a School Cafeteria ("Lunch Lady", but not as nice) cook, and cooked like it (egregious-ly).

My mother wasn't much of a cook, either. She perused those weird trendy cookbooks of the sixties and early seventies and generally made stuff that looked cool but tasted pretty awful (think: Cher in "Mermaids"). Depending on her shift, we would attempt family sit down dinners every day until high school band activity and teenage ennui fairly well stopped that.

I learned to cook for myself and my siblings at an early age, around age 11 or so, mostly out of self defense of my mother's horrid cooking skills. We shared (my brother and sister and I) meal preparation tasks quite a bit.

Our babysitter was Pennsylvania Dutch who grew most of her own veg. We had very regular eating times and prayed like maniacs morning noon and night (which we never did at home).

My first drinks were at quite a young age ("Lunch Lady's" peppermint schnapps) coming from an imbibing german catholic bunch--i didn't like it as a kid--but miracle of miracles i turned out, later, to be QUITE a lush (now an ex-lush, fortunately).

I used to be quite a foodie, but I quit that. (I stumbled on to your site because I was quite disturbed by that television program, the Restaurant with that Rocco fellow.)

Elbows were not allowed upon the dinner table, and there was the rhyme "Mabel, Mabel, get your elbows off the table!" if you were an offender.

We ate out at places like Burger Chef and McDonalds for normal everyday sort of food and Ponderosa or Bonanza for "fancier" fare (sounds pretty awful, huh?--well, this was small town central Indiana--not much in the way of "The Four Seasons" going on there).

One place we frequented most often, however, and this was my "good cookin'" Grandma's favorite place, was a truck stop out on the state highway near the then-new Interstate. I don't remember the attraction, really, foodwise.

But I would say that food was a common gathering point for our family, especially at holidays, and important. And there were ritual foods and behaviors (including holiday prayers and a children's table).

When I'm preparing a dish for a family event (and this is a new family, mostly my spouse's) I get jazzed up and go to great lengths to make it nice because, ultimately, there were people in my life that loved food, not just to eat it, but to make it, to grow it, to make it nice for people. I like to make it nice for people. Sometimes I'd rather do that than eat it, (just not 400 times an evening!)

[kel]

This is so interesting!

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Lower middle class white folks. Southern California, so lot's of Mexican influences, but my father's parents both grew up on farms, so there was that "home cooked" quality too.

Was meal time important?

Yes and no. My mother was very insistent that we kids ate dinner st 5pm sharp. My father worked nights, so we never ate together, not even on the weekends when he was home. My parents would eat in the living room in front of the tv, and us 3 kids would eat at the bar in the kitchen.

Was cooking important?

No. I never even saw fresh garlic until I started cooking for myself in college.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

No such thing.

Who cooked in the family?

My mom did until I was about 8 or so, and then I did. Which meant there wasn't a whole lot of cooking going on. Lots of mac 'n cheese (pre-packaged), cereal, and pb&j. But my dad liked to grill sometimes (burgers or steaks, sometimes ribs) and make chili. His specialty was turkey chili. I was particularly fond of making Sunday breakfast.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Pretty rare. And when we did go out, it was to Pizza Hut or Sizzler. Sometimes burger joints.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Guests over? Never happened. But when we were at family members homes for holidays and stuff, we always sat separate. My father's parents had trays for us, and we all sat on the fireplace hearth to eat.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Not until college. Both of my parents and all of my grandparents are alcoholics, and I wanted no part of it. It took me a very long time to bring myself to learn to enjoy a beer or coctail (now I love Cosmopolitans, but I watch myself).

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Nope. But us kids always said "thank you" to my parents before digging in.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Not really rotating, but there was a very limited repertoire. When my mom did cook, she always made the same things: enchiladas, fried chicken, lasagna, chicken with rice. Lots of food in big pans.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

As little as possible. Although, we do tend to eat early in the evening, but I'm trying to get away from that a little. I try to cook often, and have salads and fresh veggies. I enjoy being creative when I cook, and I don't view cooking as a chore. I love to cook. (Of course, there's a big difference between cooking for 5 and cooking for 2.)

[NHCountryGirl]

This is great - a sort of sociological survey!

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Upper Middle Class New England/Proper Bostonian - heavy on good etiquette, regional cuisine, regular mealtimes, most meals served in the dining room, very little exposure to any sorts of ethnic foods. Parents did take me out to a Chinese restaurant when young teenager. At that time in suburban Boston area and NH a pizza place was about as ethnic as one could get.

Was meal time important?

Yes. Especially Dinnertime and Sunday mid-day Dinner. Breakfast/lunch - no.

Was cooking important?

I'm not sure. My mother never worked outside of the home, so I guess we just took it for granted that's what she did. She taught me at an early age to bake, boil water, set the table properly etc. stressing that it was important to know how to do these things..

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

No penalties, just a reminder or a nudge.

Who cooked in the family?

Primarily, my mother. She was pretty traditional fin keeping with the time - roasts, meatloaf, potatoes. A few casseroles. A lot of fun things (in my memory anyhow, not that I do them) like making apple jelly from the apples brought back from trees at our summer place, carving out the Halloween pumpkin and making pumpkin pie from scratch, trying out new things like bundt pans and cakes... My father would sometimes make brown bread and Boston baked beans for the weekend.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Fairly common. Moreso, when we were traveling back and forth to summer home to stop at places along the way. Then as a teen, just my mother and I would often go out locally for lunch or light supper when shopping. The whole family rarely went to restaurants for special occasions. Those were almost always celebrated at home.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

No. Sometimes wewould eat earlier and go do something else (probably to bed?) when grown-ups ate. For any family holidays we all ate together in dining room.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Can't remember, but it was after age 21. It wasn't at home. My parents never served any kind of liquor in their home.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Yes, we had to always say grace at dinner. Not necessarily so at other meals.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Not as far as I can recall, other than seasonal favorites making regular appearances.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Anywhere from 20 to 80% of it depending on what stage of my life we're referring to and what kind of a mood I'm in.

[Laughing Goddess]

Wow, what a fabulous thread -- fascinating. Thank you so much for starting it, Ivan.

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Lower middle class/white trash/south of Boston Catholic. And I still have the strong accent to prove it, even though I've been living in Arkansas for the past four years. (I tell people I meet, "Yes, I have actually pahhked my cahh in Hahhvad Yahhd.")

Dinner was stuff like "American Chop Suey," overcooked macaroni with tomato sauce and hamburger mixed in (horrible -- and why did they call it chop suey when it was a bastardized Italian dish?) Spaghetti-Os. Campbell's tomato soup with a grilled cheese sandwich. Hamburger Helper, and later on, Tuna Helper. Swanson's TV dinners. Now I live near the Swanson's fried chicken factory, and man, does the neighborhood smell awful when they're cooking. Homemade fried chicken smells wonderful -- factory fried chicken does not.

Canned vegetables. Is this a child-of-the-depression thing? My parents never never ate fresh veggies except at restaurants. I can remember being at the grocery store with Mum when I was small and we always walked straight through the fresh veggie/fruit section without even looking at anything. So I couldn't understand why I liked veggies at a restaurant, but hated them at home. The only exception was broccoli, which was apparently bought frozen and not canned, and I did like that.

Was meal time important?

No, not really. There was plenty of eating in front of the TV, particularly when the news was on.

Was cooking important?

I'm another one who has to say that Mum "cooked" because it was part of her job description, not because she liked it. Hence the Spaghetti-Os, etc.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

None that I recall. I was taught that it was OK to have elbows on the table before the food arrived, or in between courses, but that it was wrong to have elbows on the table when there was food on the table. What the heck does the whole 'elbows on the table' thing mean, anyway? Why is elbows on the table rude?

Who cooked in the family?

Mostly Mum, because Dad considered it a woman's job (he doesn't anymore, now that he's retired). But there were some jobs that were Dad's -- making mashed potatoes, and frying a bad cut of steak until it was gray. I hated steak when I was little, and would cut pieces of it and hide it in the mashed potatoes (because they insisted I had to eat all my steak, but not all the mashed potatoes. So the yucky steak got hidden in the bottom of the potatoes, and I ate the top of the potatoes, and the yucky steak got thrown away).

I didn't like steak until I had it in a restaurant. If my parents ever come down here to visit me in Fayetteville, I'm taking them to Doe's for a porterhouse, so they can see how a steak should be cooked.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Luckily, this is the part of my food childhood that was good. We ate out often, mostly casual, but good places for Sundays or special occasions -- birthdays, whatever. Friendly's, diners -- if anyone knows who owned the Montello Diner in Brockton, Mass. circa 1970-1975, let me know! I would do anything to have their fabulous baked macaroni and cheese recipe!!!

Fish. Seafood of all kinds -- eating out mostly, they rarely made fish at home. It's still strange for me, even though I've been in Arkansas for 4 years, not to be able to go get a scallop roll or clam roll or lobster roll whenever I want.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Nope. Don't think I ever even heard of the idea till I was an adult.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

As a teen, I had a boyfriend who brought MD-2020 on a date. It wasn't till I was in my 30s that I discovered good wine.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Nope. Hell no -- we were Catholic! I still don't get it: we were required to go to Sunday school until we were confirmed (age 15 or so?), but we never went to church and never discussed religion. So why did we have to go to Sunday school? And I bet most of my hometown is the same. I never read the Bible till I was in a college "World Religions" class.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Not really, just the same bad stuff, not on any schedule. My parents first tried Chinese food (Americanized -- we're not talking Chinatown here) and Italian food in their 20s, and always liked it after that -- and that was the extent of their experimentation.

My Mum told me that Dad took her on a date circa 1952 to a pizza place. She had never seen it before and didn't know what to expect. When the pizza was brought to the table, she was horrified. It looked to her like vomit on a platter! Luckily, she got over it!

Mum and Dad have never had Indian food. Or sushi. Thai, once, at my insistence -- it was my birthday, but I'm sure they've never had it again. They've never had Mexican. Or German. Or.... They don't know where they got an adventurous daughter from.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Uh, no family life, and not likely to have one since I'm 39 and don't even have a boyfriend. I'm part of the eating-out-a-lot culture. I would cook if I had a family, though -- seems like too much trouble to do just for myself, but I do read cookbooks and websites like eGullet every day -- I want the education, for whenever I do decide to cook.

And thanks all, again, for your wonderful responses. It took me about three hours to read these 6 pages today, and it was a great read.

Next?

[JLN67]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Middle class Midwestern fare growing up in the 70s and early 80s.

Was meal time important?

Extremely important. I can barely remember an instance when we weren't all together for dinner. This is where we discussed our day.

Was cooking important?

It was very important. We very rarely ate out at resturants.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

No penalties, just a reminder.

Who cooked in the family?

My mom. As my sister and I got older, we were expected to help out in some way. At one point when my mom felt unappreciated, she went "on strike" and we (dad, me, and my sis) were forced to cook. It was a very interesting week to say the least.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Eating out was a special treat. Going to McDonalds was a big deal for us.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Nope. We were expected to sit with everyone and behave properly.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Wine or any alcohol was not prevalent in our household. But I was probably in middle school. We'd have a special Christmas dinner and mom & dad always had a glass of wine.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Every night at dinner we'd say grace.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Mom tried to keep the menu as varied as possible. She enjoyed cooking and was good at it. She loved to try new dishes.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Not too much, actually. I'd like to have a set time for dinner every night. However, my husband often works late. A lot of times he ends up heating up a plate I've made for him. During the weekends is when we tend to have nice, more elaborate meals.

[bloviatrix]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

I grew up on Long Island to parents that are first-generation Americans. As Ashkenaz (European) jews, the food we ate was a combination of the standard "jewish" fare and whatever food trends were popularized in the newspapers. Our life seemed to revolve around the kitchen or dining room table.

My mom had certain ideas about food. Milk was required at every breakfast (you had to have at least 3 glasses of milk a day). Lettuce and tomatoes were served with lunch and dinner every day. Fresh ingredients were important. There were a few local farmstands, and in the spring and summer my dad would buy tomatoes and corn.

Was meal time important?

Extremely so. Everyone was expected to be home and at the table. There was no TV, radio, or printed materials allowed at the table. And you were required to contribute to the conversation - usually about current events. This even extended to when I lived at home after college. My dad would call me at work to verify the time of my arrival on the railroad so we could eat dinner together. When I explained that I had to stay at work and wouldn't make it home for dinner, I was told that since I lived at home, I was required to eat with the family.

Was cooking important?

I recently asked my mom if she enjoyed cooking. She said it was her job and it wasn't something that she loved to do, although she enjoyed cooking for special occasions and trying out new recipes.

That said, cooking plays a very important role in the orthodox jewish house. It seemed to me that my mom was always preparing for Shabbos. It started on tuesday when she would prepare her menu. Wednesday was for shopping. Thursday and friday were for cooking and baking, and more shopping. Before the holidays, my mother cooked up a storm. I still remember the pre-Passover prep, when my mother, her two sisters, and my grandmother would gather for several days to cook and bake. We would have turkeys and briskets, and the lightest, fluffiest sponge cakes you ever tasted. Plus, Grandma's chremzels which are a savory, matza-meal roll.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

Usually my father would issue a stern look.

Who cooked in the family?

My mom. My dad is fairly incompetant in the kitchen. And yet, for some reason, when it comes to barbeque, that's his dominion. The story in my family, is that after my parents were married, my mother was afraid to cook because she was afraid she might poison people, so every week my father would drive to my grandmother's where she would provide all food for shabbos - chicken soup, roast chicken, kugels, etc. When my parents moved to Long Island, my mom had to get over her fear and start cooking. And no one has ever been poisoned.

Mom not only cooked dinner, but she made breakfast and lunch as well. As long as I lived at home, she made me breakfast. It was always either an orange or grapefruit, a main of hot cereal, grilled cheese, pancakes, etc, and milk. Always milk. And in high school, my lunches were legendary. I would get "make your own sandwiches" - all the components, that I would put together so the bread and lettuce didn't get soggy. Plus, there was always homemade cake.

The first time I cooked a meal was in March, 1991. I was living at home after college, and my parents were away at a conference. Since they returning on friday, my mother asked if I would take care of shabbos. I defrosted chicken breasts and made a cranberry-pineapple glaze (no recipe, just throwing things together that I though would taste good) and marinated mushrooms. I'll never forget my dad's comment after tasting my food. He said "I won't be disappointed if I never eat this again." How's that for a shot to the heart?

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Kosher restaurants on Long Island didn't really become prevelant until the 80s. In the 70s we would go for pizza once a month or so, and going out for "deli" was a real treat. But as I got older and there were more places to eat, we began to go out more. For birthdays we would come into "the city" and go to Moshe Peking, which was the "fancy" kosher chinese restaurant. I loved when we would go shopping on the Lower East Side, because it meant mushroom-barley soup and cheese blintzes at Ratners.

Nowadays, my mom rarely cooks. They either have take-out or go out to dinner every night. They're getting extravagant in their old age.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Never. I sat with the grown-ups. I'm the baby of my immediate family and of my generation of cousins. We all sat one very long table at holidays and were expected to contribute to conversation. The only concession to being a kid that I can remember was the little blue kiddush cup that I got at Passover instead of a crystal one like all the grown-ups. I knew I had "arrived" when I moved up to crystal.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

I was probably a toddler. We had wine at the table on our shabbos table. Of course, it was Concord Grape or Malaga. Dad always let me have a sip. My first exposure to hard alcohol was at 13 when I started going to bar mitzvahs. Somehow we got our hands on a screwdriver. I didn't have really good wine until I was about 20. It was a Gan Eden Gewurtzramiener. One taste and I understood what people meant when describing a wine as flowery. I could taste and smell the flowers. Shortly thereafter, my parents hosted Craig Winchell, the winemaker and owner of Gan Eden when he was in town for a bar mitzvah. I was beginning to explore wine and I inundated him with questions that weekend.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

On shabbos we always started with kiddush (the blessing over the wine) and Hamotzi (blessing over the bread). After the meal we would say Bircat Hamazon (Grace after the meal). During the rest of the week, it was expected that you said the appropriate blessing pre- and post- meals. We worked on a honor system.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Yes and no. There weren't specific meals, but you knew in concept what would be served. Sunday and monday tended to be shabbos leftovers. Tuesday and thursday were usually dairy meals. Thursday was frequently spanish omelettes.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Quite a bit. Just like with my parents, almost all of my entertaining is done around the dining room table on shabbos. Although I don't cook as many traditional ashkenaz foods, there are still certain foods that I will cook to mark the seasons. For example, stuffed cabbage will only be eaten between Simchat Torah (the cabbage rolls are representative of the wrapped torah scrolls) and Purim. I will only make cheesecake once a year at Shavuot. Every year on Rosh Hashanna my mom would host a large open house for friends. I do the same thing. And I tend to go overboard with baking before Purim.

The main difference is in the style of cooking. I use a much wider variety of ingredients (there is a lot more available to kosher cooks, than there used to be). I integrate different cuisines and flavors - I think nothing of using lemon grass or star anise, when my mom has no idea what they are. Plus, I tend to cook lighter foods.

[browniebaker]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Upper-middle-class, Chinese-American. As part of the "brain drain" out of Taiwan, father and mother immigrated to the U.S. with my brothers and me in 1967 when I was two. When I was three, we settled in Nashville for good, where the dominant food culture was Southern. But father and mother never really took to American food, much preferring their native Chinese food.

Was meal time important?

Dinner was important. Mother cooked Chinese meals almost exclusively, at least when father was home, so we almost always had Chinese food for dinner. As a surgeon, father had long and variable hours at work. No matter what time he was coming home, as long as it was before 10 p.m., we children all had to wait for him so we could sit down together. It was terrible, being hungry and not knowing when we would eat. While waiting, we kids could have a little snack but were not allowed to sate out appetite for fear of ruining our dinner.

If father was not coming home, say, for lunch on a weekend, we were allowed to have take-out fast-food (Burger King, Whattaburger, Captain D's, or KFC) or were left to fend for ourselves by scavenging in the pantry or fridge. Breakfasts were always "American" for the kids, such as scrambled eggs and toast, or cold cereal with milk, even though my father and mother would have their Chinese rice porridge and savory side dishes.

Was cooking important?

For mother, cooking was a wife's obligation, which she discharged only if she had to . She cooked only if father was home for the meal; she could get away with not cooking when it was just us kids and her. Dinner was never fewer than five "dishes": one soup, three platters of meats and/or vegetables, and rice or noodles. Mother was always horrified to hear of other women who cooked only three dishes for dinner. Mother also believed in eating well; she thought nothing of spending money on choice ingredients like jumbo shrimp or crab or fish for every day. One of my friends was amazed at the dinner she had at our house one evening and asked whether we ate like that every night; the truth was, we did.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

None. Father and mother did not care, or even know much, about American table manners. I learned American table manners from school, TV, and etiquette books.

Who cooked in the family?

Mother only. The kids' role was to set the table and to take turns washing dishes. Later, when we kids left for college, father started doing the dishes. He cooked only once, when we kids were little and mother went to New York City for a week while her parents were visiting during a world tour; he still brags about that omelette he made. Years later, when mother went to Taiwan for two weeks to attend a funeral, I, a fifteen-year-old who knew nothing of cooking, cooked horrid meals for father and my brothers.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

We went out often to eat, no special occasion needed; it was a treat for mother, who didn't really like to cook. We had dinner usually at Chinese or Japanese restaurants. If dinner was at an American restaurant, it was at a mainstream chain like Bonanza steakhouse or Red Lobster. (I am sure my parents' negative opinion of the palatability of American food came from being exposed to it only at such chain restaurants.) Until I left home for college in Massachusetts, my only exposure to American food came from the school dining-hall and fast-food or chain restaurants.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Yes. As the only daughter, I was the designated babysitter for all the kids. And Chinese people do invite kids over along with adults. We sat at the kitchen table, separate from the adults in the dining room, but we ate the same food as the adults. The children were always served first and settled at the children's table before the adults began to eat. Mother and father never prepared special foods just for children, thank goodness.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Not at home. Father was not a drinker, having the Asian intolerance for alcohol. Mother could hold her liquor, but she would drink it alone as a snack at any time of day, a tiny glass of either Jack Daniels or Manishevitz. Manishevitz was father and mother's idea of dinner wine to serve when guests came over; they had no idea about all the different wines out there. The only other alcohol they ever served when guests came over was Pabst Blue Ribbon or Schlitz beer; they didn't know any other beers existed.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

No. Taoists don't pray before a meal. On special holidays, or on the anniversary of ancestors' deaths, offerings of food were made at an altar with lit sticks of incense stuck into the foods so that the food would waft up to the heavens along with the smoke. After the offerings, we would take the incense- sticks out of the food and eat the food at the next meal.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

No. Mother cooked whatever she felt like. Often what she cooked was determined by what she had just harvested from her huge backyard Chinese-vegetable garden (which land I always thought would have been better used for a swimming pool).

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Not as much is being replicated as would be if I had married within my culture. Having married an Americanized Korean, and being rather Americanized myself, I find that we don't much celebrate the Chinese holidays, although I feel guilty for not trying harder. We go out to eat for the lunar new year, but that is about it. I do try to cook the Chinese foods of my childhood for two reasons: I miss them sometimes, and I want my children to know and enjoy these foods. Certainly my family eats a broader range of cuisines than my parents did; I cook rice as part of a Chinese meal maybe once every two weeks, if that. But meals at my house are mostly simple and consist of just three dishes, which mother is horrified to hear, since she thinks any less than five dishes constitutes eating like a pauper.

Edited September 4, 2003 by browniebaker (log)

[Carlovski]

Great thread!

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

My parents worked funny hours (They ran a pub) so we didn't always eat together. I was of the era of semi convenience - Mum would often make something, but use packets, jars etc and often had frozen veggies. But not full on zapped in the microwave meals. We did love eating out, mainly for Indian and Chinese food (Which I was exposed to at an early age). I was always the most adventurous eater in the family though.

Was meal time important?

Lunch tended to be something quick, sandwiches, something on toast etc. Dinner was the main meal, but we didn't always eat at the same time. On sundays when I was younger I usually ate at my Grandparents, where we sat down for a roast dinner.

Was cooking important?

Mum saw cooking as a chore, and any labour saving device (Gadgets, frozen foods, jars of sauce) was seen as a great idea. My dad saw it as a more enjoyable activity, mainly because he didn't have the pressure of putting food on the table every day.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

None really. We were quite relaxed!

Who cooked in the family?

My mum mainly. Dad used to cook one of his 'specials' occasionaly, and once had to cook for two weeks while my mum was laid up with a bad back (We got some 'interesting' meals!). When I got older, dad started cooking more, he used to cook most Thursdays, and other times too.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

My parents used to eat out a fair amount, and I went too. We had regular holidays, and ate out every night there. We never went anywhere my Dad would consider too 'Posh' though.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Didn't really do much entertaining in the house, but when we did we all sat together.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

We never used to have booze in the house (Consequence of running a pub!) and my parents aren't really wine drinkers. I had my first experience at my first formal meal at university!

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

No way!

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Dad's cooking night featured variations on the same theme (Normally chicken and a fairly heavy cream sauce, with a few additions!). It was always a traditional sunday roast on Sundays.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Well, I live on my own (Well with flatmates, but we look after ourselves!)

I think I have developed my own path foodwise, I am definitely the 'foodiest' member of my family. I remember my Nan arguing with me because she wouldn't believe I actually cooked. Explaining to here that I like pasta, yes but don't often make bolognese sauce because it is fairly time consuming to make prompted the response "Don't be silly, all you need is to boil up some mince and a jar of sauce"

I think a lot of the meals I had wouldn't be considered as such by some mebers of my family - no potatoes! sometimes no meat!

[Hest88]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Well, I grew up in a Cantonese family, so although sometimes my mom would make "American" dishes such as steak or the occasional meatloaf, most of it was some variation of Chinese.

Was meal time important?

Yes, very. My mom worked out of the home, so she made us breakfast and usually had dinner ready by the time our dad got home.

Was cooking important?

Very much so. It was the only way we could get decent Chinese food, after all, without a longish drive!

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

None. My parents weren't all that aware of American table manners. There were *other* etiquette issues that we were taught, but they were Chinese.

Who cooked in the family?

My mom usually cooked on weekdays, but on weekends my dad often cooked as well. They always shared prep tasks and each had their speciality dishes.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Special occasions. Unless my mom got lazy one night, which was not all that infrequent.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over??

Nope. We were expected to behave at the table, but she'd often let us leave the table early.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

No idea. Alcohol wasn't something we often had in the house, though my parents liked beer with crab. I probably had my first taste of alcohol at a family wedding.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

No. There were certain advantages to growing up in a Taoist/Buddhist household.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Nope.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Very little, but mainly because we don't have children. If we did have kids, we would probably adopt most of it, mixing in some of my husband's childhood practices. (Such as prayer.)

Edited September 4, 2003 by Hest88 (log)

[canadiancook]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

I grew up in a predominantly Italian Family. My mother is Sicilian and father is Hungarian. Most of my Hungarian relatives are still in Hungary, but all my Sicilian grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins all live here in Vancouver Canada. None of us are more than a 1/2 hour drive away now.and when I was younger, everybody lived within blocks of each other. Almost all events (Christmas, Easter, New Years, Birthdays, etc.) were always celebrated together and always involved food.

My mom worked and so Grandma was the babysitter until I was about 12 years old. I remember watching her making fresh pasta and bread and sometimes got to help out turning the handle on the pasta machine. Sometimes I got to help grind the pork through the meat grinder for sausage. Then there were the cannolis. She fills them with a pudding like cream rather than ricotta and were a big hit with the other Italian families in the neighbourhood. Making shells for cannolis was usually a large production, with my mom and aunts helping out as they would make several months worth of shells to store for use whenever the occassion presented itself. Often when my grandmother would make something like fresh pasta or cannolis, she would send me off to deliver some to the other Italian ladies who in turn would send me back to Grandma with some of their homemade specialties.

Was meal time important?

Mealtime at our house was extremely important and everybody ate together at home, at the atble and no TV. Also, the whole family (uncles, aunts and cousins) would get together at grandma's house at least twice a week for dinner.

Was cooking important?

Even though my mom worked, she did as much cooking as possible and made all the same recipes my grandma did, however she didn't have time to make bread and pasta from scratch. She also ventured outside of the italian menu and cooked other cuisines as well.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

We were taught more about respecting the food and not wasting it over proper etiquette and refined behaviour, however basic manners were always expected.

Who cooked in the family?

Mom always cooked at home and I would occassionaly help. Mom and I were always interested in good food and making it. Dad knew nothing about good food - he didn't care and would eat just about anything. At grandma's house, grandma did most of the cooking and the aunts all helped. Grandpa worked the grill in the summertime.

My uncle would usually make the sausages and smoked salmon for the whole family.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Restaurants were not common growing up - grandpa would always say "Why do you want to go to a restaurant for when the best cook and the best food in the world are right here in front of you" - except with a very thick italian accent. The one exception was chinese food - everyone loved chinese food and we would sometimes go out or have it delivered.

My mom was a little more westernized and liked going out for a nice meal once in a while. We liked going out for steak and crab. Whenever we ate something we really enjoyed at a restaurant, I would ask my mom to replicate it at home. She usually did it quite successfully.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

We had a kiddy table out of necessity, as more and more cousins appeared, we ran out of room at the main table. Sometimes at Christmas time (when family friends were invited as well) there would be over 25 people at my grandparents house for dinner.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

My first sip of wine was pobably at about 5 years old - cut with some 7-Up. I loved watching grandpa make the wine down in the basement. Every year, he would get what I think was about 100 boxes of grapes delivered from California and then crush them in their press. The back yard was filled with boxes of grapes and bins of discarded stems and pulp. They had 3 huge barrels in the basement and dozens of jugs and they would provide the supply of wine for my aunts and uncles as well give some away at Christams as gifts for the mailman and garbage men. Grandma would then make red wine vinegar out of some of it. They don't make wine anymore as they are getting to old now and only one of my uncles has kept it up but to a much lesser degree.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

No.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every

No set menu. Dinner was usually based on what was fresh at the market. However, as my mom became busier and busier she spent less time shopping for ingredients the way my grandparents did (market, butcher, bakery, deli) and just bought things at the big supermarket.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Its funny that as a kid I would sometimes be embarassed about my culture and food. I would show up to school with a sandwich my grandma made and it would be on a big crusty bun and have mordatella, proscuitto and provolone and would smell different and look different than everyone else's pb+J or packaged ham and processed cheeses. My friends would wonder what I was eating and think it was strange. They would come over to my grandparents' house and see grandpa "burning" peppers on the grill thinking we were bad cooks or see dried meat hanging from string in my grandparents basement and think we were insane for not keeping our food in a fridge. Every summer my uncle would hook up a trailer and drive 4 hours away to get a load of red peppers and tomatos from the Okanogan Valley in the interior of BC, where some of our best produce comes from, so the family could prepare our roasted peppers and crushed tomatos for canning. I always loved our food but most of my friends were growing up on WonderBread and frozen dinners so it seemed alien to them.

Now I look back and wish I hadn't been embarassed by it all and should have been asproud of it as I am now. I don't know who said it, by I read or heard somewhere an italian american chef saying that all those who gave my family strange looks then are now paying me top dollar for the food they once thought weird. I thought what a coincidence, because now my friends all love when I cook Italian or introduce them to foods they have never tried before like fennel, radichio, gnocchi, cannoli, aged provolone, ricotta, roasted peppers.

For a long time I never really though about my heritage much, but in the last few years I have made an effort to not lose a lot of the traditions - mostly the food. I do almost all the cooking at home (and my wife couldn't be happier about that - she would rather clean up), we eat together almost every night (sometimes its not possible due to work schedules), and I am slowly acquiring my granmother's recipes - or at least trying to convert her descriptions of " a little of this and little of that" into a basic blueprint for the dishes and executing them pretty closely to hers. I try not to "one stop shop" at the supermarket and as much as possible spend time picking the best from the produce market, butcher, etc. And I am hoping to go back to visit Sicily again soon.

[Toliver]

For a long time I never really though about my heritage much, but in the last few years I have made an effort to not lose a lot of the traditions...

Thank you for sharing. Your childhood sounds wonderful and I applaud your effort to keep the traditions alive...especially your grandmother's recipes! That is a treasure beyond measure. Feel free to post some of your favorites here on eGullet.

[misgabi]

Being new to egullet I thought I would post here in what is one of my favourite forums.

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Grew up as a middle class australian, born in the mid 60's.

Was meal time important?

Yes, very. Our family always ate the evening meal together and you had to have a damn good excuse not to be there. We always ate around 6.30pm on weekdays and a little later on the weekends (after Dad had watched the news on television). The tv was then turned off and nobody was allowed to read at the table (a rule I hated as I had a book in hand at all times - even walked to school reading) and we all discussed the days events.

Was cooking important?

My mother was a really, really atrocious cook (as I have mentioned in other forums) and the cooking did not become quite so important until I took over at about age 10. Then it seemed to be not just important to be but all consuming.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

No penalties as such, more a sharp look or reprimand. I was always in trouble for having my elbows on the table!!

Who cooked in the family?

As mentioned above I took over the cooking at about 10 after telling my mother that the roast chicken she had cooked for dinner was "wrong" as she had not made it the same way as my aunt. I should mention that my aunt was my cooking idol. Having lived all over the world every time we went to her house we got fed the most amazing food. Falafels, spring rolls, "real" curries and I would sit in the kitchen and be shown how to make all these foods. Needless to say that the food coming out of my mothers kitchen was nothing like this and I could not understand why. My mother said that if I thought I could do better I should give it a try and see just how difficult cooking for a family of 5 was. I did take over and never relinquished my role as chief cook in the family. I loved the fact that I got to decide what we would be eating, looking through recipie books and learing to make everyones favourites. I won't say there weren't disasters (some of that 70's food was hideous before you even began) but I loved the experimenting side of it too.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

We ate out a great deal. My parents were very keen that we taste all different types of food (just because my mother could not cook it didn't mean she did not like eating it!). I seem to remember that none of my friends went out nearly as much as we did - or to "proper" restaurants. I remember being really dissapointed at age 12 when we were told we were going out for seafood with another family and ended up with fish and chips (their idea of a seafood meal) - my idea of seafood was natural oysters and lobster.

I used to horrify my friends at school telling them that I had tried smoked eel or snails the night before (and enjoyed them).

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over??

Never, my broter and I always used to serve and help out (and of course I would cook) when mum and dad had guests. My aunt used to say the only reason to have kids was to put them to work! She used to call us Slave One and Slave Two.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Around 12. I liked it but fortunately now I can afford bottled and not cask!!]

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

No, I think we said grace when I was much younger but that just seemed to have stopped one day.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

We usually had a roast on Sunday and fish on Friday (being catholic and all) but noting else was ever set in stone.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

I now share the cooking with my husband and we both love entertaining and often have people over for a meal. We eat together all the time (unless he is on night shift) in which case whoever cooks makes enough for the other and "Surprises" them when they get home from work. We eat out alot, and love going away just to try new restaurants and foods.

[tryska]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

well i am 1st generation Christian Indian, so our dinners were primarily indian, or umm..indian fusion. reminds me of my roommate - she says no matter what her grandmother cooks it always tastes portuguese. same scenario with me. one important thing was having meat of some sort on the table. if there was no meat, there was no meal in my father's eyes. so it was basically meat, vegetable and starch.

Was meal time important?

meal time was very important - it changed as we grew older and we all started leading busier lives, but most of the time, everyone was at the table, and we all ate together.

Was cooking important?

my mother hated to cook, yet the dinner meal was very very important "to feed my father", so something from scratch was always made.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

none. i don't know that elbows on the table were relevant, yet none of us seem to eat with our elbows on the table. if that makes any sense. what was important, was eating with your mouth closed, not smacking your lips, not biting your silverware, and not talking with your mouth full.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother originally and then around 13 i started cooking. it was actually quite fun, because the family felt i was a much better cook, and around 16 i was given the checkbook and could shop for whatever looked good at the grocery store each day. that definitely opened up some creativity for me. My dad cooks as well, but not well, he tends to compose on the fly and sometimes it turns out good, sometimes not. he typically cooked on weekends.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

we would go out or have food brought in every couple weeks. we usually went out to try exotic foods from other cultures. my father also felt immense guilt if he got to have something special that we didn't get to have, so typically if he and my mother went to a special event or party, we got treat food (for us, pizza and wings), and he would bring back a doggie bag.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

never.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

It was Christmas when i was about 14 or so. One of my father's italian patients used to make fortified concord grape wine in his basement, and offloaded about 6 bottles on my dad. that became us kids first table wine. to this day Manischewitz brings back a touch of nostalgia.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

not when i was growing up, but my mother apparently has found her religion the past few years, and now there are prayers.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

nope - meal-planning depended entirely on how much energy my mother had to spare.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

well - i'm single and i live with a room-mate. we both have very busy lives, so it's not quite like i ,or she, grew up with. we do tend to eat together on weekends, but it's typically in front of the tv...something my mother NEVER let me do!

Edited September 30, 2003 by tryska (log)

[bergerka]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Dad = New Jersey Jew, Mom = California WASP, so I guess you could say our "food culture" was pretty much everything, with some nice Southwestern influences since we were living in AZ. Some specialties: chicken fried steak with mashed potatoes and gravy (I requested this as my birthday dinner about six years in a row), grilled flank steak with this fab rice dish made from cheese, rice, sour cream and green chilis all layered and a salad, potato blinzes with sour cream (and cheese blinzes for dessert), potato kugel, mom made a totally fabulous potato/leek soup, chicken "tetrazzini" (I think my mom made up the recipe, as it doesn't really bear much resemblance to the more traditional one I've come to know, but it was GOOOOD).

Was meal time important?

Yes. Mom got up every morning to make breakfast for us before we went off to school and sat and talked with us while we ate it, and dinner was together, sometimes with one or more of my siblings, their significant other(s) and/or their kids. No reading at the table, either. Mealtime is for talking to your family and enjoying your food.

Was cooking important?

Yes, in that my mother is really a very good cook. Every once in a while, usually when they were going out, we were allowed to get a pizza or go out for fast food, but not much.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

Penalties? We were reminded to take 'em off, is all.

Who cooked in the family?

Mom, though dad made breakfast, was in charge of anything grilled on the bbq, and makes delicious matzo brei. On holidays, everyone pitched in.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occasions?

Only every once in a while. Occasionally for a "special occasion," but more often dad would just come home and say "I'm in the mood for Mexican--let's go to La Perla!" or something like that.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Only on Christmas and Thanksgiving, when the whooooole fam-damily was over and there wasn't enough room at the big table for everyone. Now the kids and adults are all mixed up at two tables on holidays.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

I was little, probably at a Passover seder.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Not generally. My family isn't religious. Before you get all confused, we did and do celebrate Passover, Easter, Christmas, Rosh Hashanah, Chanukah, but for tradition's sake, not religion's.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

No. It was "what mom feels like cooking today" with some input from the peanut gallery.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Uh--that's hard to say, because I really don't cook. I would say that our frequent entertaining and our friends' apparent enjoyment of and enthusiasm for our dinner parties (we have been told several times that people really feel "at home" in our apartment) and our enthusiasm for good food of all kinds replicates the attitudes with which I grew up, for sure. And I do make mom's lemon bread for Christmas presents, her (originally my paternal grandmother's) honey cake, and several of her other sweet recipes, when I bake.

And I still crave her stuffing at holidays.

Did I miss anything?

K

[mikeycook]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Both of my parents were born in Maine and we moved when I was 5 to New Hampshire. Both of my parents were/are healthy eaters (both overweight, as am I), so food was a key component in our lives and the things we did. My parents had a large vegetable garden when I was young and I learned about seasonality. My parents grew peas, beans, cucumbers, zucchini, corn, potatoes, onions, carrots, etc. Being from Maine, seafood was a big part of our lives, particularly lobster, scallops, and Maine crab. My mother's family continued to live along the coast in Maine, so we had regular access to fresh Maine seafood.

Was meal time important?

Having a meal time was more important than when it actually was. We generally ate not long after my father got home from work in the 6-7pm time frame. That was the only "real meal" in terms of having a set time. Breakfast was right before school (generally cereal) and lunch was at school.

Was cooking important?

My mother always had a lot of pride in her cooking (rightly so) and since she was a stay-home Mom, pretty much cooked every day, meals as well as sweets (her specialty -- cookies and cakes). In general, my mother preferred to make things from scratch (like cakes), rather than using mixes or premade grocery store items. However, my mother didn't have a bias against restaurants or take-out, so we got that sometimes as well, particularly as we got older.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

No penalties unless you tried eating with them. When I got to be around 12, my parents finally got around to tell me it was bad manners. After about 5-6 years, I got the hang of it.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother, always. Once in a great while I would cook something, but not often (maybe once per year.)

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

We would eat in restaurants on weekends if we were travelling (sometimes just take out) as well as for special occasions. My parents avoided fancy/expensive places except for a weekend night every couple of months.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

I can only remember this for Thanksgiving, although when we were at my grandmother's a remember it more. It was only due to the number of guests and the limited space in my grandmother's house. The kiddy table was in another room. At our house, we generally had enough table seats for Thanksgiving and when we didn't, we put up a kiddy table at the end of the adult table.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Probably around 6-8 years old (can't quite remember, but I think it was Dubonnet -- even though that probably doesn't really count as wine.) My parents didn't have any background for wine, so I didn't really start drinking it until I left home.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Only at my grandmother's or aunt's. My mother's family was Roman Catholic and she married a divorced Episcopalian, which didn't go over well with the church, so religious observance gradually decreased as I got older.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

No hard fast rules. We even ate meat on Friday. There were a number of rotating meals, however, although they didn't show up on a particular day. Some common items were:

- American Chop Suey

- Meatloaf

- Baked Stuffed Sole

- Seafood newburg

- Barbecued chicken

- Fish chowder

- Corned Beef and Cabbage

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

I am now the primary cook (my wife cooks occasionally). Our life is generally a mix of home-cooked meals and take-out (we live in NYC and have an excellent selection.) I try to cook things we cannot get via takeout or in restaurants as much as possible and we mix that with takeout and restaurants. My cooking style is primarily a combination of French technique (although my mother's father was french, she rarely cooked classic french) and New England ingredients/dishes. My mother also explored dishes from other countries and I have tried to do the same.

[FistFullaRoux]

ooh ooh ooh... Here's mine: (edited one answer to make a bit more sense)

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Traditional Cajun (everything over rice, with pan gravy or jus), occasional southern US goodies, and steak or barbecue a couple of times a month

Was meal time important?

Somewhat. As I got older and spent less time at home, I knew there was food around, pop it in the microwave if I was hungry. Then on a TV tray.

Was cooking important?

The history of the food itself was what was important. My mom was an only child, and she had boys, so the Cajun food history (which I didn't want to learn at the time) and the way it tied into religion, the Acadian exodus, and the early days in Louisiana was passed on to us. I stop and think now about how much information was thrown at me in addition to the instructions on how to make a dish, and I can see now how food can give you a touchstone to your past. My grandmother also made candy and little baked goods to give as Christmas presents. Her mother did that during the depression, saving money by cutting her own sugar cane and refining her own sugar and syrup. That's hardcore. My grandmother stopped doing it just recently due to failing health, and I'm going to start doing the same as soon as I get a place big enough to set up that kind of operation. She would start around the first of October and make it in batches on the weekends. She usually ended up making huge volumes of something like 30 varieties by the time she was done. That's where I started learning candy making and baking.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

I grew up in a pretty casual household. We ate dinner in front of the TV a lot. Elbows at someone else's home or in a fancier restaurant would get me a severe look or a pinch.

Who cooked in the family?

Single mom. Grandmother lived with us for a while. I started cooking occasionally at about age 13, mostly baking and breakfast stuff. I mastered pancakes and cornbread early

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

"Restaurant" meals were few and far between. Usually for a birthday or something. Fast food maybe once a week

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Not at home, but at my aunt's house where we ate every Thanksgiving, she did the kid's table, grace, napkin on the lap thing. Another aunt used to cook for an army on Sundays, but for the guys, that was TV trays in front of the game during football season, then outside on the picninc table when it was warmer and there was no football. She tried to keep the men and women seperate to reduce arguments.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

With wine I was probably 15 or so, wine wasn't a real part of festivities. However, with beer, I think I was about 5 at one of my grandfather's July 4th BBQs (Schlitz. ptu)

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Not at home, but we did at other's homes when asked.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Not really. My grandfather was a dairy farmer, so we always had a freezer full of top quality beef for nearly free. Mom sorta cleaned out the fridge at some point during the week, using leftover sausage or roast, or whatever meat was there. Add some potatoes and simmer with whatever gravy was there (Every meat except grilled foods were made with a basic brown onion gravy or jus), pork and beef. I still make and thoroughly enjoy this. Other than that, it was whatever got pulled out of the freezer that morning.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

In Alabama, not much. It's just the wife and I. I don't get a chance to cook that often, and my wife can cook about 5 dishes without a recipe. Lots of Hamburger Helper or other quick stuff in front of the TV. When I do cook, it's occasion to invite friends over. Had they found out that I cooked and didn't invite them, they would pout and frown. About once a month I do a big meal, red beans and rice, or pork roast with rice and gravy, maybe shrimp stew, and it's almost gumbo weather. Time for one of those.

Edited September 30, 2003 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[docsconz]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. I hadn't come across it before. It is fascinating.

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

I grew up in a 100% Southern Italian (Sicilian-Neapolitan Brooklyn household in the 60's and 70's. Food was important, although it tended to be somewhat provincial. We generally ate Italian or "American" with occasional Chinese thrown in.

Was meal time important?

We typically ate as a family, although as I got older most of my siblings were already out of the house. It wsn't uncommon to have the tv on during dinner if an important game was on.

Was cooking important?

Absolutely. It ws my mother's principal job (and she was damn good at it!), although my father generally shopped for food and planned the menus.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

None, although it was discouraged. I don't really remember it being an issue.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother did the bulk of the cooking, although my father wasn't bad when he needed to.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

We would have occasional restaurant meals for no particular occasion as well as for some special occasions.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

I come from a large extended family, so "kiddie" tables were and still are common during large family get togethers. Otherwise, no.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

It was pretty much always available for me to taste, although as a child I generally didn't like it and didn't drink it. Coca Cola was "our wine". I didn't really start to enjoy wine until after college.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Only during major religious holidays.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

While not a "rotating" menu per se', there were some definate patterns. Sunday was the big meal of the week as it was for so many of you. We would typically have pasta with meat in the gravy (meatballs, braciole, pork sausage and sometimes chunks of pork) followed typically by roast chicken and vegetables especially broccoli (with lemon, OO and garlic) or stuffed artichokes. Mondays would frequently be for leftovers. Wednesdays and Fridays were pasta nights with Fridays typically having seafood such as white clam sauce, fresh tuna sauce, crab sauce (my favorite and what I would request on my birthday), shrimp marinara or a meatless sauce such as "marinara" (tomatos, oo, garlic and basil), mafalde with ricotta or aglio-olio. The pasta was usually followed by seafood - usually what flavored the sauce. Saturdays were often either steak or hamburgers. Thursdays we would occasionally have veal or later on chicken cutlets, pork chops or some other meat dish typically with mashed potatoes and some vegetable. Tuesdays were often pizza night. My usual fare when my parents went out for the evening was Swanson's roast turkey tv dinner. I loved the stuffing and the cranberry sauce (my mother didn't make stuffing when she roasted a turkey. The ubiquitous special event meal was lasagna.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

As much as I can given that my wife come's from a very different suburban wasp background. Her answers to these questions would be almost exactly the opposite to mine, except for the "rotating" menu which was probably more uniform than mine. In any case, we eat dinner together as often as possible (almost every night) without a television (even if a big game is on), cook traditionally on occasion (I still cook my mother's clam, tuna and crab (when I can get live blue crabs - not too often) sauces and my wife has picked up other recipes from my mother such as lasagna, cavatelli with broccoli and fusilli with chopped meat sauce), but more often we are cooking either specific recipes or creatively. Our diet is much more varied cuisine and ingredient wise than either of ours was growing up. Food is of major importance in our house. Dinner should not be allowed to get cold unless it was meant to.

[sassybat]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

I'm Chinese, so that factored a LOT in my family food culture. Rice really was a staple, and soups with unidentifiable ingredients that were "good for you" were a nightly occurance.

Was meal time important?

Mealtime was very important. My parents owned a restaurant, so they were rarely home in the evenings, but my grandma lived with us and would cook dinner, and we were all expected to be there. The same went for when my parents were home for dinner. In that case, my mom normally cooked, and we were still expected to all be there. No one ate in front of the TV, and only if you had something else to do (i.e. studying at school, etc.) were you excused from being at dinner, and then you had food waiting for you when you get home.

Was cooking important?

Cooking was very important. Microwaveable foods did not exist in my house. We did have some toaster foods like Eggo waffles and Pop-tarts, but those were for breakfasts on school mornings when my mom didn't want to get up to make us breakfast. (Working late hours in a restaurant does not make you receptive to the idea of waking up at 6am to feed kids)

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

I never knew there was such a rule until I went to friends' houses. My parents never instilled that rule in us, and to this day, the rule still makes no sense to me. Putting elbows on the table put the rice bowl at the perfect height for eating with chopsticks.

Who cooked in the family?

(See above) Mostly my grandma, because she was the one who was always home. Whenever my mom had days off, she would take over cooking, and sometimes my dad would when he had days off. My grandma cooked standard Cantonese fare, such as stir-frys. My mom stuck to those mostly too, but she got to play with more interesting foods, ie crab, lobster, etc. My dad went to culinary school for a while, so he was usually the most experimental. That could be good, but on some occasions, it was kinda bad.........

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Restaurant meals (other than the ones at my parents' restaurant) were rare, and usually on a whim. On special occasions, my parents would usually cook something special.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

It depended on the number of guests. If my aunt stopped by for a visist, or we had a couple friends over, it didn't make a difference because our table sat at least 8. 10 could be squeezed in. (The large table was necessary. There were 5 kids in my family.) But during large family gatherings around Thanksgiving and Christmas, there would be a kiddie table simply because the table could not house all my aunts and uncles and us and all our cousins.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Probably sometime in my pre-teen or early teen years, I can't remember. Though I do remember a time when I was a teenager, and my dad had made a mistake with the wine ordering for the restaurant, and so we ended up with three cases of a so-so cabernet sauvingnon. But most of us were and are lightweights, so even the 7 or 8 of us couldn't finish a bottle in one night. Now my older brother and I have more of a tolerance, but my grandma, my younger sister, and my mom aren't big drinkers. A quarter bottle of Smirnoff Ice can get my sister red-faced and giggly.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Nope.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

There wasn't really a set rotating menu, but my grandma's menu wasn't very broad, so we ate a lot of stuff over and over again. But I do remember a period of time where we had boiled chicken every Friday like clockwork.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Some, but not all. I love cooking, and I try to stay away from microwaveable foods as much as I can, but there are days when I'm just too tired to cook. Normally those are the days when my roommate will pick up cooking duties, or we'll go out and get something to eat. But when I cook I like to try and recreate a lot of the foods my grandma and mom make, partly out of nostalgia and partly because it's good food, dammit. but i also branch out into other foods. I'm a big fan of pasta and Italian food, and roast chicken is a godsend. when both my roommate and i are home, we eat dinner together, and that's something I'd like to keep when I have kids.