Richard Bertinet Sweet Dough

[iii_bake]

I read about Richard Bertinet's sweet dough technique in Gourmet Mar 2008...even with the pictures for some steps it is still difficult for me to follow...Thank god Gourmet has the VDO...after checking it out...the slapping and stretching of the dough are just the same way i saw a Japanese lady made her dough in the TV show.

Richeard Bertinet sweet dough VDO

Has anyone seen or tried this? Any comment or report?

Looks like fun

iii

Edited March 9, 2008 by iii_bake (log)

[alanamoana]

need to fix the link. you pasted an extra http:// into the address...

edited to add: it's a great technique! i didn't realize gourmet had these great videos. thanks for pointing them out.

Edited March 9, 2008 by alanamoana (log)

[chefpeon]

I was disappointed they didn't show the final product all baked up. That would have been the "proof in the pudding" to me. Sure it looks like fun, but is it worth it? I'll only go for a labor intensive technique if the ends justify the means.

[hummingbirdkiss]

I am going to make some now and see for myself ..it totally looks worth the effort ..it looks like it feels good!!! ..thanks!

ETA

I just made this dough it was easy ...came out exactly as he showed and in the process of rising now ..thanks so much for posting the link... I honestly think it resolved a lot of issues for me

Edited March 9, 2008 by hummingbirdkiss (log)

[hummingbirdkiss]

Ok I take crappy pictures but this dough is perfect it is light buttery and very easy to work with ...this is pretty much the best cinnamon roll I have ever eaten (and I need to leave the house now so I dont eat this entire pan!) ...this guy has it going on ..

I will look not further

very easy ..and worth every min ..absolutely perfect!

[alanamoana]

I am going to make some now and see for myself ..it totally looks worth the effort ..it looks like it feels good!!! ..thanks!

ETA

I just made this dough it was easy ...came out exactly as he showed and in the process of rising now ..thanks so much for posting the link... I honestly think it resolved a lot of issues for me

←

Thanks for reporting on your experience with the dough and for the photo of your sweet roll! I'm glad you had a good experience with the dough. What do you mean by his method resolving a lot of issues for you?

[chefpeon]

What do you mean by his method resolving a lot of issues for you?

I'd like to know that too.

Also, when I clicked on the link from the video to get the printed recipe, I noticed that it's

more or less a brioche dough. All I really want to know is why doing it by hand like that would

be any different than developing the dough on a mixer? I make brioche every week by the

way, so I'm just curious.

Edited March 10, 2008 by chefpeon (log)

[iii_bake]

Cannot recall if i read this from the magazine or from the VDO itself, it says with the technique, the air is incorporated into the dough...

As i said, i saw a japanese lady did this as well...

With the instructions and also in the VDO, the dough became smooth and no traces of those shagging looks....i made mine, the dough passed the window pane test but it was still wet....

I did the slapping for more thatn 20 minutes...too long, i know...maybe i did not lift the dough high enough.

[hummingbirdkiss]

Thanks for reporting on your experience with the dough and for the photo of your sweet roll!  I'm glad you had a good experience with the dough.  What do you mean by his method resolving a lot of issues for you?

←

I always use too much flour in sweet dough and never get the texture just right ..

this completely resolved this for me the dough was perfect I slapped it around exactly the way he showed .. for a little more 8 min or so and I had a perfect elastic dough that did not stick to the surface ..shaped perfectly and not one sprinkle of flour was used or needed

also I was in a crappy mood and after making that dough I felt better ..so another issue resolved

[hummingbirdkiss]

What do you mean by his method resolving a lot of issues for you?

I'd like to know that too.

Also, when I clicked on the link from the video to get the printed recipe, I noticed that it's

more or less a brioche dough. All I really want to know is why doing it by hand like that would

be any different than developing the dough on a mixer? I make brioche every week by the

way, so I'm just curious.

←

see above for issues ..but I think that if you make this every week you know far more than I do about this dough ..and probably this would not be woth it to you ..although it took no time at all and was much more fun to me that a mixer ....I was just never happy with how mine turned out ..now I am this was perfect and worth every slap..to get the texture it had

[iii_bake]

I always use too much flour in sweet dough  and never get the texture just right ..

this completely resolved this for me the dough was perfect I slapped it around exactly the way he showed .. for a little more 8 min or so and I had a perfect elastic dough that did not stick to the surface ..shaped perfectly and not one sprinkle of flour was used or needed

also I was in a crappy mood and after making that dough I felt better ..so another issue resolved

←

Cannot agree more on the feeling better after some slapping!

[Channie]

I just made this dough it was easy ...came out exactly as he showed and in the process of rising now.

That looks lovely. And unless you have very small plates, it looks like the perfect size, too.

What kind of flour did you use?

[alanamoana]

What do you mean by his method resolving a lot of issues for you?

I'd like to know that too.

Also, when I clicked on the link from the video to get the printed recipe, I noticed that it's

more or less a brioche dough. All I really want to know is why doing it by hand like that would

be any different than developing the dough on a mixer? I make brioche every week by the

way, so I'm just curious.

←

just from personal experience, unless i'm making very large quantities of brioche, the dough hook just does a poor job of developing the dough/gluten. this dough also has a much smaller ratio of butter in it (than traditional brioche) from what i can see.

i really think this method would take less time than on a mixer (although you couldn't multi-task) and it seems to develop the dough much more evenly than a mixer can. as a matter of fact, i've often started this type of dough on a mixer with the paddle attachment and then moved to the hook.

*i'm referring to kitchen aid type mixers. the more european style mixers usually have two hooks or the bowl moves making them more efficient.

i think as a learning method too, this is a good idea because people really should make doughs with their hands. you get a much better feel for when a dough is made properly when you've used your bare hands. might not be practical if you need 20# of dough though

[austramerica]

Thanks for the link...I will try this method tomorrow for sure...will take a photo later on IF it turns out right for me...

austramerica

[hummingbirdkiss]

I just made this dough it was easy ...came out exactly as he showed and in the process of rising now.

That looks lovely. And unless you have very small plates, it looks like the perfect size, too.

What kind of flour did you use?

←

I used King Arthur all purpose and I would double the recipe as I think he did when making it on the video next time ...or not (because then I would eat more!)

that was a dessert plate size ..the picture is awful actually but that bun was fantastic it was melt in your mouth buttery and the dough was perfectly developed...it had just the right amt of everything a brioche/sweet dough should have ...

it would make a perfect donut I can tell you that!

[sheetz]

I tried this recipe and agree the dough was awesome for cinnamon rolls. I did have some trouble getting the dough to come together even after nearly 20 min of handling, so I added a tiny bit of extra flour and stuck it in the fridge.

[dougal]

I read about Richard Bertinet's sweet dough technique in Gourmet Mar 2008...even with the pictures for some steps it is still difficult for me  to follow...Thank god Gourmet has the VDO...

...

Has anyone seen or tried this? Any comment or report?

←

Two points on the movie

- Bertinet uses the identical "kneading" technique for sweet and savoury doughs. Elsewhere the technique has been called the 'French Fold'. I don't believe Bertinet has ever claimed to have originated it.

- there's a longer (less edited and more extensive) brioche demo on the DVD that accompanies (at least the UK edition of) his second book, "Crust".

This seems to be a wetter initial dough (yes), and the softened and cut up butter is incorporated only after a certain amount of bench 'folding'.

And you get to see the baked results, too.

This 'French Fold' is a great way of dealing with impossibly wet doughs...

[hummingbirdkiss]

I love that my wacking dough like this is called a "French fold"

I am going to really do some serious French folding today

the weather is having flower envy and acting out by snowing here!!!

I need to bake something like this again!

I want to put some raisins in this dough and make bath buns dipped in a sugar glaze ..that should be healthy

[iii_bake]

I love that my wacking dough like this is called a "French fold"

I am going to really do some serious French folding today

the weather is having flower envy and acting out by snowing here!!!

I need to bake something like this again!

I want to put some raisins in this dough and make bath buns dipped in a sugar glaze ..that should be healthy

←

Post some pictures please....

[Anna N]

I tried this dough following the recipe exactly but using Canadian bread flour - the dough was not nearly wet enough to do the slapping technique! So if you are in Canada and using Robin Hood Best for Bread flour I suggest you start with a lot less flour! I intend to try it again when I am in my own home in a week's time and cut back the flour by 25% to see if that works any better.

I tried a recipe for another bread sent to me by an American friend and ran into a similar problem - she can use 4 cups of A/P flour with the amount of liquid called for in her recipe - I had to use less than 3 1/2 cups. So it seems our flour has a much higher protein content and can absorb a lot more liquid.

[hummingbirdkiss]

today I used just about 3 1/2 cups of KA all purpose and the texture was perfect again ...( I have been using the printed recipe instead of how he says to do it) but am slapping it just like he says...the recipe he is using appears doubled from the printed one

I will take pics when the buns are done I did not think about taking the dough shots ..but it looks like his!

[iii_bake]

today I used just about 3 1/2 cups of KA all purpose and the texture was perfect again ...( I have been using the printed recipe instead of how he says to do it) but am slapping it just like he says...the recipe he is using appears doubled from the printed one

I will take pics when the buns are done I did not think about taking the dough shots ..but it looks like his!

←

No pictures????

[hummingbirdkiss]

none of the dough but here you go the ones I just ate are these

I used some saffron cardamom and golden raisins in the dough and topped it with an orange rosewater glaze..really light on all the flavors ..these are really good

I like this dough ...a lot!!!

[iii_bake]

none of the dough but here you go the ones I just ate are these 

I used some saffron cardamom and golden raisins in the dough and topped it with an orange rosewater glaze..really light on all the flavors ..these are really good

I like this dough ...a lot!!!

←

Lovely, thanks

[A Canadian Foodie]

I just took his bead baking course at his Cookery School in Bath last week and will be writing about it soon.