Best Manhattan neighborhood for food?

[Nathan]

midtown/HK is missing the neighborhood eateries (places like Little Owl, Shortie's, Back 40, Savoy), Italian and winebars.

[Mayur]

Fair enough but the EV could use more/better bread-bakeries. And a nice chocolatier. And more post-dinner dessert places than Chikalicious and Veniero (Black Hound doesn't count as it's mostly takeout, Build a Green Bakery doesn't have seating). There's no great Chinese aside from Grand Sichuan, really. The Indian and Thai options are pretty much mediocre across the board.

←

Sure, but if you're talking about a neighborhood that has all of the above, you're not describing *any* neighborhood in NY.

With R4D out of the picture, the only other "dessert bar" restaurants are Kyotofu and the bar at Michel Cluizel, the latter of which is in an otherwise not-so-abundant-with-options neighborhood. From the EV, WD-50 and Falai are within easy walk for dessert, and I consider both of those superb options for dessert with almost no rivals in NYC. Most of the decent restaurant options in Chinatown either deliver (go Congee Village!) or are either a 10 minute walk (I go for dim sum every weekend, and DSGG, which is relatively far down in that neighborhood, isn't more than 15 minutes door to door). The EV is as close to Chinatown as you get except NoLiTa (the intervening neighborhood).

IMO, Brick Lane is as good as you'll get for Indian without being in Curry Hill (again, limits options for everything else), next door to Devi (ditto), or in Jackson Heights/Flushing. East Village Thai and Holy Basil are actually quite good by overall NY standards, and it's not like one can really hang out at Kittichai all the time unless one's wallet is quite sturdy.

The WF actually has a pretty fair chocolatier; and to be honest, fine chocolate, like Per Se or JG, is something that's enough of a rare buy that it can be traveled for. As to cheese: I'm sorry, but the cheese concession at the Bowery WF is not to be shrugged at, even compared to Murray's. I'll take the ability to get Stichelton and Borough Market Cheddar over almost anything. Bread (*definitely* a necessity!) is easily available either via delivery from (or a 10-minute walk to) Balthazar or at the Greenmarket. Likewise, for serious gourmet stuff, I'd rather hit SOS Chefs than Dean & DeLuca, both for price and quality.

But, as Nathan said, downtown is a small place, and pretty much everything one wants is within gentle distances.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Mayur (log)

[Mayur]

I dunno Mayur, I would argue pretty strongly for Midtown/Hell's Kitchen, ESPECIALLY if you are combining Midtown East and West. Similarly, . I'm a bit skewed, my residence in the Kitchen and probably dining out Japanese disproportionately, but objectively I'd maintain that answer -

[List of teh awsom]

Anyway, armed with an NFL-like ability to hurdle tourists, i guess i'd argue Midtown is the best neighborhood for food by these criteria

1) Destination restaurants

2) Neighborhood eateries

3) Ethnic markets or take out

4) Great food stores (grocery, butchers, bakeries)

←

All that is a great set of points. I guess it boils down to the fact that NY has a variety of good food neighborhoods! In all honesty, it's probably easier to pinpoint the worse ones than the better.

[raji]

midtown/HK is missing the neighborhood eateries (places like Little Owl, Shortie's, Back 40, Savoy), Italian and winebars.

←

See I dunno about that, I mentioned a few Italian places, and there's tons more (becco, roberto passan) as long as you're not talking about Carmine's or the Olive Garden - and it's places like those that mar the neighborhood, Cassulella just opened up and there's others -

Neighborhood eateries, well, Eatery, Vynl, Marseilles, HK, 44x, 44 1/2, ... I dunno, you tell me what's a neighborhood eatery....

Granted it's not as exciting as downtown as a whole, but, I eat damn well and dodge tourist buses - I don't think it's any coincidence that a shit ton of chefs live in the neighborhood.

I'm not your bitch, bitch just opened up at 42nd and 12th, and it's damn good...

[Fat Guy]

The other big advantage of Midtown is the number 7 train, which gets you to a lot of the best places in Queens.

[raji]

The other big advantage of Midtown is the number 7 train, which gets you to a lot of the best places in Queens.

←

[Nathan]

See I dunno about that, I mentioned a few Italian places, and there's tons more (becco, roberto passan) as long as you're not talking about Carmine's or the Olive Garden - and it's places like those that mar the neighborhood, Cassulella just opened up and there's others -

Neighborhood eateries, well, Eatery, Vynl, Marseilles, HK, 44x, 44 1/2, ... I dunno, you tell me what's a neighborhood eatery....

←

but after Esca, those places can't hold a candle to Babbo, Lupa, Otto, Del Posto, Peasant, Il Posto Accanto, Del'Amina, Bellavitae etc....

as for neighborhood eateries, I've eaten at Eatery, Vynl (which also has a Chelsea branch) and Marseilles....and they're basically glorified diners compared to places like Little Owl or Savoy.

midtown/HK does have Japanese and the four stars. it also has the best African south of 125th and the best Manhattan Asian outside of Chinatown. It also has the best Manhattan Greek (the only good Greek restaurant downtown is Snack Taverna/Snack).

[kathryn]

Fair enough, Mayur, but WD-50's dessert options are pricey for the every day diner. And I thought I was the only one who loved East Village Thai (hole in the wall on E 7th between 3rd/2nd, right?)

I guess I'm just pointing out that unless we know the original questioner's food priorities, we don't know what neighborhood is best for that unique eG snowflake. Obviously, no neighborhood in Manhattan is 100% perfect for all food lover's every need.

Small quibble: Bowery Whole Foods is technically on the LES since it's south of Houston, no? Lucky for me, I live a few blocks away but it's definitely not as convenient for other EV-denizens.

[raji]

but after Esca, those places can't hold a candle to Babbo, Lupa, Otto, Del Posto, Peasant, Il Posto Accanto, Del'Amina, Bellavitae etc....

as for neighborhood eateries, I've eaten at Eatery, Vynl (which also has a Chelsea branch) and Marseilles....and they're basically glorified diners compared to places like Little Owl or Savoy.

midtown/HK does have Japanese and the four stars.  it also has the best African south of 125th and the best Manhattan Asian outside of Chinatown.  It also has the best Manhattan Greek (the only good Greek restaurant downtown is Snack Taverna/Snack).

Well, I think Alto and Abboccato (dunno about Alto after what'shisnames departure) deserve to be on your list, but also I know what you're talking about - I might go down to Crispo for an Italian I really like. I think midtown is unique in that any good Italian has long since been flooded by tourists and suckified

If you ate Japanese and I ate Italian as much as eachother, we'd have different opinions

best African, you mean Queen of Sheba? And Asian would be... ?

Will get back to you about eateries, I haven't provided the best examples

[The Naughti Literati]

I say East Village/Union Square area and then midtown too! I put midtown second because it lacks the overall flavor that the EV has as a neighborhood. And I'm TELLIN y'all, check out that book The World in a City: Traveling the Globe Through the Neighborhoods of the New New York! It is awesome and the Lower East Side also gets its props in a chapter as well as far as Manhattan goes.

Mayur, Mario Batali was at Brick Lane with his fam on Saturday night! When my boyfriend (the chef) called me and told me that he met him and talked to him for a minute, I think I was more excited than he was. Off to the Babbo thread, it is high time to make a reservation.

Edited December 17, 2007 by The Naughti Literati (log)

[raji]

See I think people are bunching together Gramercy, Flatiron with the east village -

Why don't we call it what it is - the Lower East Side; nothing more, nothing less

I say, let's go by voting districts....

[raji]

I say, let's go by voting districts....

no no no, that's just not right

(yes I just argued with myself)

[The Naughti Literati]

LOL Alright, I'm just gonna go with Union Square because you can walk almost anywhere from there! Especially where the great spots in the East and West Village are. Plus Whole Foods and Trader Joe's are right there for groceries, not to mention the greenmarket and Food Emporium. AND The Strand.

[kathryn]

East Village = east of 3rd Avenue/Bowery, south of 14th Street, north of Houston Street. Dammit.

[raji]

cue oldtimer explaining how east village was a broker rebranding of the LES... kinda like 'hudson heights'

[tupac17616]

I'd position myself near the Union Square stop on the 4/5/6 trains. Like maybe I'd try to find a place on 16th or 17th between Fifth Avenue and Union Square West. That puts you within walking distance of several of the neighborhoods that I'd consider the top picks. You can walk to everywhere in the Union Square/Flatiron/Gramercy area. You can walk to the East Village, the regular Village and the Meatpacking/Chelsea area. And you live right on top of excellent transportation options for the neighborhoods you don't live in: 4/5/6, N/Q/R/W, L and PATH.

I am with FG on this one 100%

[Fat Guy]

To put it in terms of community districts, you want to be near the intersection of 2, 3, 5 and 6 so you can operate in all of them.

P.S. People are exposed to their own neighborhoods the most, so they often develop an exaggerated sense (either positive or negative) of the local markets, restaurants and other services. In the wine business they call it "cellar palate." Only people who live above 59th Street -- the ones who would never nominate their own neighborhoods with a straight face -- can be considered truly reliable here!

[weinoo]

I'd position myself near the Union Square stop on the 4/5/6 trains. Like maybe I'd try to find a place on 16th or 17th between Fifth Avenue and Union Square West. That puts you within walking distance of several of the neighborhoods that I'd consider the top picks. You can walk to everywhere in the Union Square/Flatiron/Gramercy area. You can walk to the East Village, the regular Village and the Meatpacking/Chelsea area. And you live right on top of excellent transportation options for the neighborhoods you don't live in: 4/5/6, N/Q/R/W, L and PATH.

I am with FG on this one 100%

←

I agree with this as well, though I'm located on the real lower east side (Clinton and E. Broadway)...and for me walking and/or the F train will get me anywhere I want or need to go in Manhattan. I regularly walk to Union Square (about 35 minutes and easy enough to take the subway home when I'm loaded with stuff from the green market), the gourmet ghetto of Bleecker St. West (and Florence Prime Meats on Jones St.), DiPaolo's, Arturo's, PDT, D&C, etc.

[feedmec00kies]

I'm going to say it, even if no one cares:

If access to (bottled) beer matters to you (you being... whoever might read this in the future, at least), I think it should be mentioned that the Bowery Whole Foods has that shiny new beer store, and it's about 2 blocks away from New Beer Distributors (their selection has been improving... something about changing distributors or something... hopefully they realize that they could lose business to the Bowery Whole Foods if they don't get their act together). And if you take the L into Williamsburg, you've also got Spuyten Duyvil Grocery...

Just a thought.

[chefboy24]

i would definitely live between union square and washington square, somewhere between 5th and 8th avenues (preferably a brownstone on west 11th)

union square greenmarket - vegies galore, blue moon fish

citarella - fish

lobster place - fish

florence - meat

ottomanelli & sons - meat

murrays cheese- cheese

murrays bagels - bagels

amy's bread - bread

whole foods union square

trader joes union square

italian wine merchants

le du wines

gramercy tavern

union square cafe

craft

gotham

wallse

mary's fish camp

pearl

little owl

perry street

po

las ramblas

babbo

annisa

blue hill

why live anywhere else?

Edited December 18, 2007 by chefboy24 (log)

[Mayur]

Fair enough, Mayur, but WD-50's dessert options are pricey for the every day diner. And I thought I was the only one who loved East Village Thai (hole in the wall on E 7th between 3rd/2nd, right?)

Well, if you're after "more post-dinner dessert places than Chikalicious and Veniero," I can only assume you're looking for something high-end dessert bar-like. Stupak's full-on tasting for $25-35 isn't a bad deal by those standards.

Small quibble: Bowery Whole Foods is technically on the LES since it's south of Houston, no? Lucky for me, I live a few blocks away but it's definitely not as convenient for other EV-denizens.

←

It wouldn't be an eG topic without a discussion of terminological specificity...

I'm defining "neighborhood" as "set of everything that's walkable within 10 minutes." The OP was clearly indicating what neighborhood would be best from the perspective of proximity. Given that the WF is one block further away from St Marks than, say, Ssam Bar is, I think it qualifies as being in the same neighborhood.

But in any case, I'm going to go with FG and chefboy insofar as groceries are concerned. The length of the walk to Chinatown and lack of decent bars would be a downside for me, though!

[kathryn]

cue oldtimer explaining how east village was a broker rebranding of the LES... kinda like 'hudson heights'

←

Well, if you're after "more post-dinner dessert places than Chikalicious and Veniero," I can only assume you're looking for something high-end dessert bar-like. Stupak's full-on tasting for $25-35 isn't a bad deal by those standards.

I guess I'm looking for something in between, with more capacity than Chikalicious.

I'm defining "neighborhood" as "set of everything that's walkable within 10 minutes." The OP was clearly indicating what neighborhood would be best from the perspective of proximity. Given that the WF is one block further away from St Marks than, say, Ssam Bar is, I think it qualifies as being in the same neighborhood.

Should we change the conversation to be not what neighborhood is more desirable but rather what intersection?!

I live in the EV and I know I'm terribly spoiled in terms of food. But I'd feel lucky to live in a lot of the neighborhoods under discussion (Union Square, West Village, Soho, Nolita, HK, etc).

[Nathan]

I live in the EV and I know I'm terribly spoiled in terms of food. But I'd feel lucky to live in a lot of the neighborhoods under discussion (Union Square, West Village, Soho, Nolita, HK, etc).

←

I've lived in NoLIta and I now reside in the WV.

If I had to pick one neighborhood to live in solely on the basis of food...it'd be the SW part of the EV (proximity to everything...including Ssam Bar, PDT and D&C!).

now leaving the food and cocktail question aside, the perk to my current hood is that having Giselle for a neighbor beats NYU co-eds....and the restaurant options aren't too bad either.

[oakapple]

Of all the suggestions given, Union Square is the most compelling. It's a strong food neighborhood in its own right, and it's within a walking distance of several other great neighborhoods. Now, add to that all the places reachable in 30 minutes or less on the 4/5/6/L/N/Q/R/W trains. Lastly, Union Square has all of the other amenities one looks for in a neighborhood.

The Financial District, where I used to live, is not a great food neighorhood on its own — though it is better than it used to be. But if you're willing to get on a train, you're no more than 1/2 hour away from every Manhattan neighborhood mentioned so far, because more subway lines converge there than anywhere else.

There are pockets of midtown that are close to great restaurants. But if you're on the west side, then the east side trains are a hike, and vice versa. TriBeCa and SoHo, which some people mentioned, are also terrific neighborhoods, but they are among the most expensive in town.

[Mayur]

I guess I'm looking for something in between, with more capacity than Chikalicious.

What's an example of this in a neighborhood other than the EV/LES?

Should we change the conversation to be not what neighborhood is more desirable but rather what intersection?!

Nah. I'm saying that in the context of the OP, talking about what side of the avenue a store's on (a difference of what? 30 feet?) doesn't really strike me as relevant to the definition of "neighborhood." If we were talking about why the UES might be a good food neighborhood, I doubt we would leave out something on the north side of 96th St.

Of all the suggestions given, Union Square is the most compelling. It's a strong food neighborhood in its own right, and it's within a walking distance of several other great neighborhoods. Now, add to that all the places reachable in 30 minutes or less on the 4/5/6/L/N/Q/R/W trains. Lastly, Union Square has all of the other amenities one looks for in a neighborhood.

What other amenities, exactly?

My only problem with Union Square is the lack of good affordable restaurants or decent bars within a two- to three-block radius (yes, now I'm being picky!), and the fact that it's too long a walk from Chinatown or from a decent Indian grocery. (EDIT: Also the fact that the USQ WF is a madhouse!)

I live in the EV and I know I'm terribly spoiled in terms of food. But I'd feel lucky to live in a lot of the neighborhoods under discussion (Union Square, West Village, Soho, Nolita, HK, etc).

Absolutely. The easy part is figuring out where I'd prefer not to be rather than where I'd want to live (although I grew up in the WV and have lived in NoLiTa). Edited December 18, 2007 by Mayur (log)