Bad Behavior at a Restaurant Bar?

[markemorse]

Maybe we're talking about two different kinds of bars here. Pegu Club is not really what I'm thinking of when I hear the words "cool bar"...

Regarding justification, can't get past the "whose needs are more important" perspective. What justifies his action is bringing your sizeable (6 or 7 pounds?) home electronic device to an place designed for eating, drinking, and socializing, and insisting that the owner accommodate your ambience-affecting desires because you bought a 9 dollar drink. The customer is not always right and, amazingly, not everyone wants to be Danny Meyer.

And what's this obsession with the half-emptiness of this bar? My favorite bars are half-empty...how can you get any conversatin' done in a packed-to-the-gills bar?

ETA: qualifications.

Edited November 15, 2007 by markemorse (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Ah, Chris. I do hate to disagree with you on this. But....have you ever owned a retail business?

Not retail, but I run a school and spend a great deal of time talking with people about our stated, documented policies. When someone accidentally violates one of them for the first time, we cut them some slack and let them know that, next time, the policy will kick in. That's true, of course, unless safety or health are at issue, which -- unless there's something about laptop computers that I don't know -- isn't the case here.

The above description pretty much reads as if you walked into someone's place of business, ordered a drink, then did something unusual that no one else was doing, something that made the owner uncomfortable, he asked you with a smile and a friendly tone not to do it, and you were insistent about doing it. I'm not sure that I would've been any nicer about it.

It's true. He certainly was nice enough in the telling.

The real shame here is that you finally got thrown out of a bar and it was for such a wussy reason.  You should have at least taken a swing at the manager or grabbed at the hostess on the way out, just to save face. 

This entire topic is an act of contrition that I didn't initiate a brawl, it's true.

A laptop is a powerful fashion accessory, opening one up in this bar is kind of like Betty showing up for work a tMode in her poncho -- throws off the zen of the space. 

Yeah, except that I'm a customer and not an employee. Maybe it was the Red Sox hat?

[Chris Amirault]

And what's this obsession with the half-emptiness of this bar? My favorite bars are half-empty...how can you get any conversatin' done in a packed-to-the-gills bar?

Not sure about that -- but I do know that I did plenty of conversatin' at the bar I eventually went to to write the piece. I guess the people there didn't immediately assume I was anathema to social interaction.

[Fat Guy]

The half-empty issue arises in response to the concern, stated above, about camping -- the potential for a customer to sit forever with one drink, taking up space that could be used by a more profitable customer. In a half-empty establishment, that's simply not a concern.

[Jaymes]

Walking into a coffee shop and seeing everybody sitting at the table hunched over laptops has a real New Age feel to me. And the sounds are completely different than the murmur of folks chatting, spoons hitting china, ice clinking in glasses.

The guy has decided he does not want to cater to folks working on laptops.

Owners make those sorts of decisions all the time...we don't serve meat, no smoking, no shorts, etc. They decide the kind of atmosphere and service they wish to provide the public.

It's a really simple thing, you know. If any place doesn't provide a service you want, you finish up what you've ordered, pay and leave.

And you don't return.

[SundaySous]

The half-empty issue arises in response to the concern, stated above, about camping -- the potential for a customer to sit forever with one drink, taking up space that could be used by a more profitable customer. In a half-empty establishment, that's simply not a concern.

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I can see his concern. If he lets people do it on off nights they will come back during "happy Hour" and want to know why they can't use it. To be honest he was probably showing the Bar Staff how to approach a customer and enforce his rule. Show him how to kick some one out without kicking them out.

Then again he could of just met with his accountant who was showing him on his laptop how much money he was loosing and poor Chris was the first thing he saw coming out of the kitchen in need of a cocktail.

[Kouign Aman]

His bar, his rules. A customer agrees to follow those rules when they walk in the door and place an order. A person doesnt have to think they are good rules. Or might think they are good rules but perhaps could be more tactfully communicated. Still agrees to follow em by the act of patronizing the place.

[Pebs]

Quote .......I can see his concern. If he lets people do it on off nights they will come back during "happy Hour" and want to know why they can't use it. To be honest he was probably showing the Bar Staff how to approach a customer and enforce his rule. Show him how to kick some one out without kicking them out......End Quote

I too see his concern and I echo the egulleter who wonders why people have to be doing something all the time instead of enjoying conversation, the taste of the drink, the taste of the food and people watching. We spend a lot of typing on this site talking about the joys of slow food, ambiance, sights and smells that evoke enjoyment (or disgust) of the dining or drinking experience. Personally, I am baffled at the trend of bringing the office to dining establishments, bars and even the airport. I recently travled and had to litterally step over the legs of people leaned up against the walls banging away on lap tops with no regard for whether anyone was going to trip over them or not. I spend all day at the office. I don't want to feel like I'm still in it when I stop out for a drink.

[Chris Amirault]

To be honest he was probably showing the Bar Staff how to approach a customer and enforce his rule. Show him how to kick some one out without kicking them out.

Now that makes sense to me, honestly.

I too see his concern and I echo the egulleter who wonders why people have to be doing something all the time instead of enjoying conversation, the taste of the drink, the taste of the food and people watching.  We spend a lot of typing on this site talking about the joys of slow food, ambiance, sights and smells that evoke enjoyment (or disgust) of the dining or drinking experience.  Personally, I am baffled at the trend of bringing the office to dining establishments, bars and even the airport. 

I was working on a freelance food article, in fact -- and was enjoying conversation, the taste of the drink, and so on just fine. I can multitask.

[Busboy]

It seems to me that zero tolerance for laptops, in a neighborhood restaurant bar in Providence, is grandiose. The notion that "the zen of the space" demands such a Draconian policy in a half-empty neighborhood bar is in my opinion absurd.

I'm a pretty flexible guy but -- as any parent or manager knows -- once you start making exceptions based subjective conditions (that there's some point that the bar is empty enough to allow exceptions, for example) you open up a nasty can of worms..."but last time..." "but he did..." Should Per Se make exceptions to its dress code based on the number of people in the dining room? Do I have to observe the two drink minimum at the jazz club or topless joint (so I hear) only when the room is otherwise full? Consistency is important when you're dealing with the public, otherwise you'll be overwhelmed by cries of "favoritism" and pleas for excuses. And the logical person to make and enforce the rules is the person whose butt and money are on the line, not the customer who can take his or her esteemed custom elsewhere.

Zen is Zen -- and changes tend to accumulate. Couple of ballcap wearing typists show up (though better a Sox cap than a Yankees cap), a couple of trendos decide not to stay and next thing you know, the tipping point is reached and the whole place is some kind of glorified coffee shop and the owners have to sell the furnishings to buy mismatched couches.

A laptop is a powerful fashion accessory, opening one up in this bar is kind of like Betty showing up for work at Mode in her poncho -- throws off the Zen of the space

.

eah, except that I'm a customer and not an employee. Maybe it was the Red Sox hat?

You're still part of the atmosphere. Same as the guy in the T-shirt trying to get into No. 9 Park.

[SundaySous]

I kinda cut people on laptops some slack. Some people work so damn hard now it's criminal. It's 8 PM and you see them on the train hacking away. Meaning they probably just got out of the office and are now in their other office on there way to their other other office.

[Fat Guy]

A little while back my wife went for a manicure and brought our two-year-old son along to the nail salon. He played with toys on the floor or whatever, and my wife had her manicure. At the end of the transaction, the owner told my wife politely and apologetically that they have a no-kids policy, and requested that next time my wife come alone. No problem. She has been back twice since. If, however, she had shown up and been chased away, I'm sure she would have boycotted the place forever. There's no sign up that says no kids, they don't tell you no kids on the phone, there's no advance warning and it's not something that every person with a clue would automatically assume. I'd hardly call that making an exception to the rule -- it's just a decision to enforce the rule in the least intrusive possible way. The rule happens to be wrong, and I oppose the rule, but if you're going to enforce it the nail-salon people got it right and the guy at the bar got it wrong.

[markemorse]

Ah, Chris. I do hate to disagree with you on this. But....have you ever owned a retail business?

Not retail, but I run a school and spend a great deal of time talking with people about our stated, documented policies. When someone accidentally violates one of them for the first time, we cut them some slack and let them know that, next time, the policy will kick in. That's true, of course, unless safety or health are at issue, which -- unless there's something about laptop computers that I don't know -- isn't the case here.

Hmmm...if I'm remembering school correctly, it may actually be the dialectical opposite of a bar.

Edited November 15, 2007 by markemorse (log)

[moosnsqrl]

Personally I wish they would start banning Bluetooths (Blueteeth?) from bars and restaurants. If I wanted to eat/drink at a Star Trek convention, I would go to one! Seriously.

[plk]

I don't think the nail salon parallel really works. At a nail salon, you're there for a set amount of time. They can afford to wait until you've received their service and are on your way out for them to tell you not to do something again. If you bring a laptop in to a bar, coffee shop, or restaurant, the time you'll be there is open-ended, and even likely to be longer than if you'd just gone in without your equipment. I've used a laptop at a coffee shop before, and I'm not hauling the laptop and papers or folders in somewhere and setting myself up to work if I'm just going to be there for an hour or less. So I think the response of the bar owner makes sense to stop a potential laptop-wielding table camper before the typing starts than to try to get him to stop 2 or 3 hours later.

[Fat Guy]

That's the camping argument restated. It doesn't apply in a half-empty room.

[markemorse]

You've got an appointment at a nail salon, making the issue of them turning you away after not having told you about the policy over the phone significantly more uncomfortable and definitely less defensible. Unless Chris had an appointment at this bar.

Edited November 15, 2007 by markemorse (log)

[plk]

Of course it applies. At a nail salon, you have a slot and a set amount of time you'll be there. No matter what, you'll be out of there within an agreed-upon amount of time. That is not the case at a bar. It may be half-empty when you get there, but if you're going to stay for some significant amount of time, it is likely the bar will fill up. The owner should wait until that point to tell you to put the laptop away?

[Fat Guy]

No appointment at the nail salon. In NYC there are plenty of places where you just walk in.

Camping: we've already established that this was after the dinner rush. A neighborhood restaurant bar in Providence is not likely going to fill up after 9pm on Wednesday night. And if by some miracle it does, then yes, that's when you confront someone if there's a camping problem (though my guess is that Chris would have continued to order drinks, maybe some snacks, etc., for the duration). The preemptive strike is unnecessary.

[nibor]

..... Personally, I am baffled at the trend of bringing the office to dining establishments, bars and even the airport.  I recently travled and had to litterally step over the legs of people leaned up against the walls banging away on lap tops with no regard for whether anyone was going to trip over them or not.  I spend all day at the office.  I don't want to feel like I'm still in it when I stop out for a drink.

←

Those of us who travel a lot as part of our jobs spend incredible amounts of time in airports and on planes. Those places might as well be our offices on many days, unfortunately, and we all know where the accessible plugs are...

If I can get work done while traveling, I can take the time saved to enjoy myself later on in places with better ambiance than say, Dulles or Heathrow.

[markemorse]

No appointment at the nail salon. In NYC there are plenty of places where you just walk in.

←

Sorry, you said you'd talked to them on the phone...

Edited November 15, 2007 by markemorse (log)

[cakewalk]

Oh great, you mean now I can't even get my nails done without having to listen to some kid whining and screaming? I mean really. Just because your kid was quiet that time, do you think it really means every kid is going to be quiet every time? (Yours included.) Getting your nails done is maybe half an hour of pure relaxation. Please leave the kids out of it.

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Had to get that off my chest. Anyway, I don't understand why the owner of the bar was so unable to just tell you straight out that they have a "no laptops" policy, you're welcome to stay as long as you like but please put the laptop away, if not, please leave and we'd love to have you back when you don't have work to do. The situation demands a decision, and since he wouldn't make one you had to. It was unfair of him to place that burden on you. And you seem to be more offended by his wishy-washiness than by the rule of no laptops. (Although I may be wrong on that.)

I agree that the owner probably wants to create a particular atmosphere in his own bar, and laptops do not play a part in the atmosphere he wants to have. Personally, I'm with him on that. Laptops are definitely disturbing, IMO. The light is disturbing to peripheral vision (which is not really peripheral in many respects); it is a distraction. And while you were doing work that involved writing, and, as you noted, writing and bars have gone hand-in-hand for a very long time, it would be foolish to think that everyone with a laptop is writing the Great American Novel. Most of them are playing solitaire, or surfing the web, or sending e-mail, or watching a movie, or whatever. And I think it creates an atmosphere of isolation, which I guess is not the atmosphere he wants his bar to project. (A lot of bars have TV screens all over the place. I don't go into those bars either.)

[san]

what if the laptop was a notebook? does that disturb guests the way a laptop does? should it disturb a guest as much as or less than a laptop? i doubt the owner would object, but aren't they both doing the same thing? at a non-crowded neighborhood bar, i can't imagine too many people have been kicked out for writing in a notebook- so why so much anger about a laptop?

[cakewalk]

what if the laptop was a notebook?  does that disturb guests the way a laptop does?

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No, it doesn't. Plain and simple.

[Pebs]

..... Personally, I am baffled at the trend of bringing the office to dining establishments, bars and even the airport.  I recently travled and had to litterally step over the legs of people leaned up against the walls banging away on lap tops with no regard for whether anyone was going to trip over them or not.  I spend all day at the office.  I don't want to feel like I'm still in it when I stop out for a drink.

←

Those of us who travel a lot as part of our jobs spend incredible amounts of time in airports and on planes. Those places might as well be our offices on many days, unfortunately, and we all know where the accessible plugs are...

If I can get work done while traveling, I can take the time saved to enjoy myself later on in places with better ambiance than say, Dulles or Heathrow.

←

I apologize if I sounded judgemental. I totally understand that people need to get their work done and if you're killing a lot of hours between flights have at it. The vast majority of the people in the airport or anywhere else use their laptops or whatever with courtesytoward their fellow travelers. And I mostly blame the placement of the outlets and ports in the airport I was in. In the case I experienced recently, one woman sat on the floor right in front of the boarding door with her legs outstretched requiring everyone to go around and lift their luggage over her feet. She was one of the last to board the plane. Quite frankly, I didn't see her as hardworking as much as I saw her as rude and self entitled. Admittedly it jaded me.

I guess my point is, maybe that bar owner had a similar experience with a rude laptop user that upset his regular customer base that doesn't want to party in an office atmosphere. If it's a cyber cafe or bar, great, crack open the laptop. But I think when it doesn't appear to be one of those places, a manager or owner has the right to make the call. Just the same as the owner of a fine dining establishment might have a right to refuse young children out of respect for his customers that are going out and spending big bucks to get away from domestic life for a couple of hours.