Why do so few restaurants offer a cheese plate?

[gfweb]

I'm one of those people with a really tiny sweet tooth. A plate of good cheeses, some grapes, a little bread and a glass of port or sauterne is my favorite end to a good meal.

I don't get it. Why do so few places offer a cheese plate?

Seems to me that it is a 'dessert' that can be kept for quite a while without going bad AND it gives the opportunity to sell more liquor/wine. What is bad about that?

Edited September 7, 2007 by gfweb (log)

[melkor]

A lot of restaurants do serve cheese. It all depends where you live.

[wattacetti]

I think it's where you live and the culture of your restauranteurs. Most places I go to locally have cheese plates available (pre-set or by selection), and they generally hope that one would order both cheese and dessert.

[SBonner]

The profit margin on a quality cheese plate is low so I think from a business point of view they are not cost effective.

Stephen Bonner

[Dana]

I have asked this question of some chefs I know, and all have said, "I don't really know." However, a couple have told me that if I ask my server to talk to the chef, more than likely they can fix me something with the cheeses they have on hand. I have done this a few times, and gotten a really nice plate, and another pretty pedestrian one. Still better the the chocolate bomb.

I think if more people asked for cheese plates, more restaurants would put them on the menu.

[Busboy]

I don't think there's much demand, outside a relative handful of restaurants, for the stuff (though it is rising, especially in combination with the now-inescapable charcuterie plates). Also, a cheese course drags out the meal and reduces turnover, most waiters don't know Epoisse from pasteurized processed cheese food and it's difficult to get hold of high quality cheese (Sysco ain't got it), to properly store the stuff and to keep "restaurant-sized" wholesale portions from going bad.

[hjshorter]

Many places here in DC offer a cheese plate. For the most part they are uninspired (cheese is hard to keep properly, and has to be special-ordered), but IMO an uninspired cheese plate is a far better choice than an uninspired dessert.

(A notable exception is Komi - the best cheese course I've had in the past 2-3 years.)

Edited September 7, 2007 by hjshorter (log)

[BigboyDan]

Right now cheeses are more expensive than meat - $6.00 a pound for store-bought cheeder, blows me away...

[melkor]

Right now cheeses are more expensive than meat - $6.00 a pound for store-bought cheeder, blows me away...

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Are you saying $6/lb is cheap or expensive? It seems cheap when you consider it takes a gallon of milk to make a pound of cheese.

[gfweb]

In answer to several posts...I travel widely and eat in very good places, yet it is the minority, even in the northeast, that have a cheese offering.

I agree that even a mediocre cheese is better than a chocolate sugar bomb.

At even $20/lb the slivers that you'd serve on a cheese plate might cost $5 total. Add in the bar profit from a paired wine it could be more profitable than the sugar bomb.

[Naftal]

A lot of restaurants do serve cheese.  It all depends where you live.

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Exactly, not only does my favorite restaurant in Detroit serve a cheese plate, but they make their own cheese.

[gfweb]

A lot of restaurants do serve cheese.  It all depends where you live.

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Exactly, not only does my favorite restaurant in Detroit serve a cheese plate, but they make their own cheese.

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OK. I'm obviously wrong. These restaurants actually do have cheese plates but keep them from me. Must be a plot.

[melkor]

A lot of restaurants do serve cheese.  It all depends where you live.

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Exactly, not only does my favorite restaurant in Detroit serve a cheese plate, but they make their own cheese.

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OK. I'm obviously wrong. These restaurants actually do have cheese plates but keep them from me. Must be a plot.

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No, we learned in another thread that his favorite restaurant in Detroit is a truck stop. They apparently make their own cheese to go with their onion rings and fish sticks.

[gfron1]

Having just placed a $3K cheese order this morning, I can tell you that $6/lb is cheap cheese. I always buy some cheap stuff ($3.75-$5.00 my cost) so every customer can walk away with something, but my good stuff (or decent anyway) ranges $8-$15/lb my cost.

The waste issue is nominal if you buy right and serve right. Since I can only order my cheeses every 2-3 months, I push my soft, wash-rind cheese as soon as I get them and then push increasingly firmer cheeses until all I have left are my grating cheeses. As it is in my very small town, I trim maybe $50 of my whole order away as mold; and pitch less than that as unredeemable. I've also learned how to sell rind when appropriate which has been useful.

I think the larger issue is that the lack of knowledge of cheese by the restaurants and customers. A local restaurant offers a cheese plate and I always ask what's on it. It will typically be something smoked, something blue and something soft. They once had a cabrales which was a far inferior cabrales to anything I had sold or eaten. But, the chef was so proud to offer it to me. On the contrary, when I have a customer come in (I'm strictly retail) and they say they're hosting a dinner party, I can easily sell them 3 pieces of good quality cheese in appropriate proportions because I talk to them about the cheeses' history, heritage, flavor profile, and very importantly - alleviate any concerns of stinkiness...if they have that concern (or vice versa if they like stinky cheese). And that little bit of knowledge makes all of the difference.

And my last thought (sorry about the essay, but this question touches a nerve), remember that mediocre-to-poor cheese plate at my local restaurant...They charge $8 for the plate which includes 10 bite sized pieces of cheese (pre-cut). For $8 you can give me 4 oz of $20/lb cheese and if its good, I'm happy as a clam. You make $3, I get just enough, but good stuff, and we're both happy.

If nothing else every restaurant worker should read Jenkins book to get the very basics of this whole world.

[Fat Guy]

The only restaurant where I have strong familiarity with the cheese economics is Gramercy Tavern in New York City. Gramercy Tavern has an excellent cheese program, with a couple of dozen choices, tableside service from a gueridon, a comprehensive staff training program, appropriate refrigeration for affinage, etc. What I can say, having spoken in depth with the restaurant's management about this, is that Gramercy Tavern loses money on cheese. The restaurant offers it because the customers like it, and therefore it helps cement repeat business and spread goodwill, however it is a money loser.

[Mikeb19]

Every fine dining restaurant I know around here offers a cheese plate.

But yeah, I can understand why some restaurants wouldn't. Not many people like good cheese, and it's a money loser. Even if you are making money on it, it's not even close to your other desserts...

One thing I would like to see however is more composed cheese courses... As nice as it is to enjoy a good cheese on its own, it's also nice to have them with different accompaniments... I can buy a piece of cheese and take it home, at a restaurant you should get a little more...

Edited September 7, 2007 by Mikeb19 (log)

[alanamoana]

i'll reiterate what fg mentioned above in a slightly different way:

restaurants don't want to take the time and energy to educate the staff properly on cheeses. aside from specific high end restaurants, most restaurants also don't have the proper storage facility to handle the special needs of cheese. so even if you can get a cheese plate at some places, you might not want to because the cheese hasn't been handled properly and won't be served at the proper temperature, etc.

[Fat Guy]

Mikeb19, I agree with you. I think it would be nice if more restaurants offered one savory dessert option based on cheese, like Alain Passard's Fourme d'Ambert tart with pear, served at Arpege in Paris. I think I know quite a few people who would opt for it.

[melkor]

Mikeb19, I agree with you. I think it would be nice if more restaurants offered one savory dessert option based on cheese, like Alain Passard's Fourme d'Ambert tart with pear, served at Arpege in Paris. I think I know quite a few people who would opt for it.

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That's an interesting thought. Have you had that dish?

[Fat Guy]

Yes, it was excellent. I have to check my notes but I think it was my favorite dish of the meal.

[gfweb]

Mikeb19, I agree with you. I think it would be nice if more restaurants offered one savory dessert option based on cheese, like Alain Passard's Fourme d'Ambert tart with pear, served at Arpege in Paris. I think I know quite a few people who would opt for it.

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Great idea. It would have to be clearly 'pitched' as a savory dish for most of us to understand it wasn't another sweet thing.

Another angle in favor of cheese plates...they are compatible with carb restricted diets!

[melkor]

Another angle in favor of cheese plates...they are compatible with carb restricted diets!

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Haven't we been done with the carb restricted thing for a few years now?

[Fat Guy]

I stand corrected. My favorite dish of the meal was the scallops with three sauces: grape sauce, cauliflower sauce and parsley puree. But I liked the Fourme d'Ambert and pear tart too.

Mikeb19, another note on value-added cheese courses: When Ducasse first opened in New York he was doing something along those lines. The first time I ate there we had Camembert that the restaurant had layered with black truffle slices and stored for a little while to allow the flavors to infuse. I really liked that (though it was inferior to the Camembert available in France). Even better was the Gruyere, served with fingerling potatoes and pieces of bacon in a sort of deconstructed raclette. And I think at the time I had a thought much like yours: any restaurant can serve a piece of cheese, but here we have the kitchen intervening and doing something special. Today, in 2007, especially if you're in a major city, you should be able to go out and buy the same cheeses retail that the best restaurants in town are getting, so it's nice when they add some value. Ducasse abandoned the composed cheese dishes, though, because customers were happier with a standard cheese cart.

[melkor]

I stand corrected. My favorite dish of the meal was the scallops with three sauces: grape sauce, cauliflower sauce and parsley puree. But I liked the Fourme d'Ambert and pear tart too.

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Just out of curiously, when was this meal?

[gfweb]

Another angle in favor of cheese plates...they are compatible with carb restricted diets!

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Haven't we been done with the carb restricted thing for a few years now?

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Oh no. It is still a very effective diet and one that diabetics need to stick to in one form or another. Low carb has lost the attention given to a fad, but it works and lots of people do it routinely.