Wedding Cake Recipe Help Wanted

[tim]

I would appreciate any help from pastry experts.

First, I am not a wedding cake baker, but find myself in a situation where I am making the cake for our "daughter". I want this to be the very best cake possible.

Our neighbors are fattening up for hibernation with all the recipes I have tried.

Buttermilk makes a coarse cake, whipping egg whites makes the cake dry..so. I have eliminated that. I have tried recipes with cake flour, unbleached flour and all purpose flour. I have also tried a yellow cake using oil and wine. Perhaps I am being too critical of myself but I am ready to reach for the Duncan Hines or the Pillsbury with pudding.

Any suggestions would be would be greatly appreciated.

Lib

[gfron1]

Here are some links that you might find helpful from previous forum topics:

Wedding Cake Fillings

Wedding Cake DEMO

Wedding Cake DEMO

Sculpted Cake DEMO

[alanamoana]

I would appreciate any help from pastry experts.

First, I am not a wedding cake baker, but find myself in a situation where I am making the cake for our "daughter".  I want this to be the very best cake possible.

Our neighbors are fattening up for hibernation with all the recipes I have tried.

Buttermilk makes a coarse cake, whipping egg whites makes the cake dry..so. I have eliminated that.  I have tried recipes with cake flour, unbleached flour and all purpose flour.  I have also tried a yellow cake using oil and wine.  Perhaps I am being too critical of myself but I am ready to reach for the Duncan Hines or the Pillsbury with pudding.

Any suggestions would be would be greatly appreciated.

Lib

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As you note, you're not a cake baker...is it at all possible that just following a recipe isn't enough to produce the type of cake you're looking for? Please don't take offense, but "The Cake Bible's" buttermilk cake is very moist and delicious, so could it be your mixing method? Over aeration can cause dryness or coarseness in cakes. Whipped egg whites shouldn't cause dry cakes either.

Also, many cakes which are meant to be layered are also meant to be soaked with some sort of syrup. Take that into consideration and you might be happier with the results.

[CanadianBakin']

Here's a link for the best yellow and white cakes that might help: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...&hl=best+yellow

[Tri2Cook]

I can't really add anything except I feel your pain. A large percentage of people think "Duncan Hines or Pillsbury" is the definition of cake and anything else, no matter how tasty and how lovingly made, is inferior. It's your job, as a person who appears to care, to teach them otherwise... so don't give in. I don't attempt to mimic the mix because for me it's proved to be a futile endeavor, I just try for a good cake and splash it with a little appropriate liquid if it needs more moistness. Of course I have to admit that I'm not really a big cake fan and tend to view the cake mainly as a vehicle for the filling/icing/etc. so my opinion and $4 might get you a large latte but isn't worth much otherwise.

[gfron1]

I also think it depends what your final product will be. The boxed cake mixes have their place in the world of pastries (I can't believe I just said that). But, their consistency, I think, might make it difficult to use in a traditional wedding cake. I would think a genoise (by that I mean a bit more dense/firm and dry) makes more sense because you'll typically have a filling in the middle and possibly weight on top. Maybe share a bit more about what you're wanting the final cake to be like.

[alanamoana]

in addition: high-ratio type cakes offer you the "box cake" result, but made from scratch. try to find some recipes like that.

[tim]

in addition: high-ratio type cakes offer you the "box cake" result, but made from scratch.  try to find some recipes like that.

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Hi,

Dumb question. What does "high-ratio type cake" mean?

I know my wife does NOT want anything like a box cake result. She is testing the White Chocolate Whisper Cake from the "Cake Bible".

Wendy, thanks for the link.

Tim

[gfron1]

Not a dumb question - I was wondering the same thing.

[miladyinsanity]

High-ratio shortening is a type of shortening used professionally, but to use it, the mixing steps must be completed in a certain order.

RLB says that you can use it with butter, but the recipe has to have more sugar than flour. I think this Yellow Cake recipe uses the high-ratio method--basically the butter is mixed into the flour/sugar/leavening agents, then all the liquids are mixed separately before adding to the butter/flour/sugar/leavening agent mixture.

[sugarseattle]

I think to help point you in the right direction, it is helpful to understand a few basics on the two basic types of cake you could make. Understanding these basic principles converted me to a cake lover!

1. Butter based cakes. These are cakes that get their flavor mostly from large amounts of butter. Because butter is solid when chilled, in my opinion, these cakes are best served at room temperature. Although I don't always follow my own rules, in general, I try to avoid using any fillings such as mousse with butter cakes because then the cake will have to be chilled and not live up to it's melt in your mouth potential. There are two basic ways to put together most butter cakes.

a. high ratio method. This is my favorite and most reliable method. It involves mixing all the dry (flour, b. powder, salt, sugar, spices, etc.) with the butter (softened, but cool) until the mixture resembles corn meal. then the eggs and any liquid (milk, etc.) are added in two stages, the first to add structure to the cake, and the second to moisten the cake. i also like this method because the batter seems to be stable and it can hold in the fridge for a few days.

b. creaming method. I really don't like this method, mostly because i'm not a good folder. Basically, you cream the butter and sugar together until fluffy, add yolks (sometimes also whole eggs), then dry, then fold in whipped egg whites.

2. sponge type cakes. These cakes have high amounts of eggs so they tend to be very spongy and springy and light. Because they have little or no butter, they serve up well chilled with light and fluffy mousses and custard fillings. also, sponge cakes tend to be not too sweet, but they are susceptable to drying out (because of lack of butter and sugar), so often they are soaked with syrups and left to sit overnite. my favorite is the genoise cake, which is a little more work, but worth it for the bit of extra flavor.

And here's a real quick run down of how ingredients affect the final outcome. Once you feel confident with a basic recipe, you can start tweaking your recipes to make them even closer to your ideal.

sugar - tenderizer. brings out flavor.

flour - adds structure. cake flour is lighter than all purpose flour, but can add a pasty taste if you're not careful.

eggs - adds structure and moisture.

buttermilk - recipes with buttermilk tend to be moister, but of course you can't just swap out reg. milk for buttermilk due to it's different chemistry.

milk - whole milk is best because of that little ditty, "fat = flavor"

Edited September 4, 2007 by sugarseattle (log)

[alanamoana]

The "high-ratio" method was developed when shortening started to be used in place of butter. This type of cake is popular at high volume commercial bakeries. The high ratio shortening used, contains emulsifiers which allows the recipe to hold a larger percentage of liquid ingredients in the batter without breaking. Of course with this method, you are usually using a chemical leavening agent to incorporate air.

The creaming method doesn't always (in fact, rarely) incorporate folding in of egg whites. Creaming is a method to incorporate air (mechanical leavening) into the batter. A traditional pound cake is based on the creaming method and will use no chemical leavener at all. All of the air needed in the recipe will be formed during the creaming of the butter and sugar.

Egg foam cakes (sponge cakes, for the most part) do require good folding technique usually because the air needed for leavening is incorporated in the process of making a meringue which shouldn't be broken down when incorporated into the rest of the batter. In the case of genoise, it is a whole egg foam that needs the delicate handling.

[reenicake]

I don't mean to be overly simplistic, but maybe you might be simply not using accurate measures (if going by volume rather than weight), or your oven needs checking. If nothing seems to be turning out, those are common threads in baking that would consistently not give good -- or expected -- results.

Borrow or buy a scale and get an oven thermometer. You owe it to yourself and to your vision of the best possible cake, for the sake of your neighbors, and and your "daughter". By the way, as someone who made her own wedding cake, whatever you put in it will not matter as much as the love and effort -- it will still be the perfect cake.

[sugarseattle]

The "high-ratio" method was developed when shortening started to be used in place of butter.  This type of cake is popular at high volume commercial bakeries.  The high ratio shortening used, contains emulsifiers which allows the recipe to hold a larger percentage of liquid ingredients in the batter without breaking.  Of course with this method, you are usually using a chemical leavening agent to incorporate air.

The creaming method doesn't always (in fact, rarely) incorporate folding in of egg whites.  Creaming is a method to incorporate air (mechanical leavening) into the batter.  A traditional pound cake is based on the creaming method and will use no chemical leavener at all.  All of the air needed in the recipe will be formed during the creaming of the butter and sugar.

Egg foam cakes (sponge cakes, for the most part) do require good folding technique usually because the air needed for leavening is incorporated in the process of making a meringue which shouldn't be broken down when incorporated into the rest of the batter.  In the case of genoise, it is a whole egg foam that needs the delicate handling.

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Thanks for the clarification!

[Kayakado]

See if you can find a copy of Dede Wilson's book "Wedding Cakes You Can Make". She has some good recipes for cakes but also for syrups to brush on the cakes to give them moistness and intensify the flavor. Too moist a cake may not have enough structure to stack. Dede also explains stacking. Once you find a recipe for cake you like, actually making a test cake exactly like the finished cake would be the prudent thing to do. What works in a two layer may not work in a 3 or 4 layer construction. I got Dede's book through interlibrary loan from my local library.

[Nina C.]

I am not a professional baker, although I do bake fairly often. I made this wedding cake from epicurious a few years ago, without the fondant covering. It was delicious and although time-consuming, relatively easy to make.

One thing to consider is that you want a cake that can stand up to its own weight. A friend and I had planned to make a topsy-turvy cake a few years ago, and he volunteered to make the cake layers on his own so that all of our time together could be spent on decorating. He ignored any of the recipes that I sent him, and made his favorite chocolate cake recipe instead. What a disaster! It fell apart, wouldn't be sculpted, or manipulated in any way. On the other hand it was really moist and we had fun anyway.

[tim]

Hi,

My wife is a little shy about showing off but I wanted you to see the beautiful cake that she made for this wedding. (And, only her second three-tier cake) There were also three other cakes to provide enough for 150 guests.

Each tier was a different flavor with different filings. The best was the coconut and three level decadent chocolate with chocolate ganache fillings. The cakes were delicious and completely finished.

My only responsibilities were transporting the cake two hundred miles to the wedding. I also provided technical help in affixing the mosaic to the center cake.

I am quite proud of Lib,

Tim

[lorinda]

What a terrific cake! You should be very proud of yourself. It sounds delicious.

"My only responsibilities were transporting the cake two hundred miles to the wedding. I also provided technical help in affixing the mosaic to the center cake."

"ONLY" responsibilities?!! Don't underestimate the difficulty or stress of transporting a completed cake, whatever the distance, it is a great feat to transport it.

[chefpeon]

My only responsibilities were transporting the cake two hundred miles to the wedding. I also provided technical help in affixing the mosaic to the center cake.

That bottle of gorilla glue had nothing to do with affixing the mosaic to the center cake I hope....

Edited September 17, 2007 by chefpeon (log)

[K8memphis]

I made my daughter's wedding cake. I had decades' wedding cake experience to prepare for this endeavor and I squeezed every ounce of everything I ever thought or hoped to know to accomplish this. She had a big wedding, coupla/several hundred people. I started the cake a month in advance at least. It had been planned to the minutest detail for months.

So long as you understand that you will miss some irreplacable wedding moments in exchange for the joy of this labor of love.

Are we profiling cake mix again? Don't be afraid of cake mix. It's a wonderful ingredient/tool to use in wedding cake baking/making. I daresay there's easily a hundred fold more scratch wedding cakes that bomb to one fine cake made from a mix. Just like you know/said, it ain't easy to make scratch cake. If you use butter, you can count on it being deemed 'dry' if you refrigerate the cake at all, because the butter does not relax at room temp enough to be as pleasant to eat. So your planning is key.

You want non-refrigerated fillings or use oil based recipes. This is just one aspect. There's myriads of things you need to know. Finding a decent recipe is the least of your worries. Because in order to have a nice scratch cake the shelf life is so brief fleeting even. I would bake no more than two days in advance for this to fly.

Your wife's cake is very pretty. But the stress and pressure ramps up beyond nuclear levels doing stuff like this. Just being father of the bride alone can cause this before you light the oven once. It's the nature of the beast. Mix in a cake, excuse me, I mean add in the drama and trauma of a cake and it can be a recipe for disaster. The responsibility is huge. Egos are involved. Everyone will see it and everyone will taste it. Everything can go very wrong. It's the focal point at the reception.

Y'all don't sound like y'all are probably professionals at this. I hope it's a small wedding. Like your daughter & her fiance, you and your wife kinda small.

Umm, Rob might have linked to this, but this is my experience, http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=68445.

My personal favorite formula is Sylvia Weinstock's yellow sour cream cake. I do not separate the eggs and I toss in a few of the yolks too. It comes out white. But again it does not restore to great texture if it's chilled at all. But it's a dynamite formula you can google to get it.

Read my accounting of my daughter's wedding cake.

There's a great formula in there too using (shh don't tell anyone) cake mix

I mean for sure a cake that's baked where ingredients that sat on a shelf next to the cake mix and were measured onto a scale or into little cups and mixed together are far far far better than simply opening that box and adding only eggs, water and oil. But just try & make a better scratch cake than Duncan & Betty's and whip it into a wedding masterpiece. Shouldn't we plant the wheat and mill it into flour? How could we buy flour in the box from the store? Maybe get some chickens...

Although I sound a little crabby, I'll keep posted here and help out if you want. This is obviously one of my pet peeves, the scratch versus mix thing. Cake mixes are not inferior products, they are million dollar babies. So is the flour and sugar (btw-get extra fine granulated) and all the other stuff you'll use. It's all highly refined and user friendly. You would be amazed to discover how many famous famous people use mixes.

And for what it's worth, people do not need to be educated into thinking/feeling scratch cakes are superior to mix cakes. If it tastes better and has a better texture, they'll get it without the crusade.

PS. Are those sewing notions on the cake?

Edited September 17, 2007 by K8memphis (log)

[K8memphis]

I just wanna succinctly point out the shoot myself in the foot timeline here. Understanding that I shot myself in the foot already in doing my kid's cake. First of all for the cake I am thinking that you mean a white type cake of some kind. No chocolate no dacquoise no genoise no pound cake, but a butter type cake. If you insist on a scratch cake you have to bake it within mere days of the wedding. Within days of your kid's wedding is almighty high tension time before you add any frills. Then doing a cake totally last minute for any usual amount of servings in a tier cake is high noon high drama high tension wire over Niagra falls stress. This leaves no time for possible reversals which can be legion.

When is your wedding date? I'll be watching if you need assistance.

Umm, I always wondered what a white chocolate oblivion cake would be like out of Rose LB's Cake Bible. I mean since you're into so much experimenting here. Or what about cheesecake? Cheesecake for sure has a different learning curve but you can handle it frozen. You can stack it like a layer cake. You can fill it too. But of course it has to be refrigerated.

Y'know pound cake is a good idea though. Serve it with a nice punch of berry coulis.

Both pound cake and cheesecake buys you some time is my point. Scratch butter cake is uber last minute or it automatically sucks.

Now all you have to do is tell me the reception is being held outdoors and I'm totally gonna flip out.

[tim]

My only responsibilities were transporting the cake two hundred miles to the wedding. I also provided technical help in affixing the mosaic to the center cake.

That bottle of gorilla glue had nothing to do with affixing the mosaic to the center cake I hope....

←

Chefpeon,

I sent that picture to the bride the day before the reception. Fortunately, she does have a sense of humor.

All the experiments are done and the cake (all scratch) were delicious. 150 people.

The reception was in the Garfield Park Conservatory in Chicago. That fountain in the background ADDED to the high humidity and "relaxed" the gumpaste crown on top. The bad held it together for the cocktail hours and it slowly bowed during the sit down dinner. Nobody noticed.

Transport was a real treat involving the whole back seat, both back seat floor wells and the large sheet cake was in the trunk. None of the large plastic containers could be covered (humidity) and I55 had three work zones. Heavy braking was verboten. I needed a drink at the end of the trip.

We took the cakes into the Conservatory and my wife noticed a number of squirrels running around. We had to guard the cakes until the reception started.

The cake was our gift to an adopted daughter. She was a beautiful and thankful bride.

Tim

Tim

[CanadianBakin']

You guys did a fantastic job on the cake and thanks for telling us it's story.

[davidtmori]

I also think it depends what your final product will be.  The boxed cake mixes have their place in the world of pastries (I can't believe I just said that).  But, their consistency, I think, might make it difficult to use in a traditional wedding cake.  I would think a genoise (by that I mean a bit more dense/firm and dry) makes more sense because you'll typically have a filling in the middle and possibly weight on top.  Maybe share a bit more about what you're wanting the final cake to be like.

←

As you say, box mixes do have their place. And I would say that their consistency, in another sense, is very reliable. I mean, if you find a good box mix, such as Gold Medal, they are very consistent in their results, especially if you make the necessary adjustments to make them come out to your liking. I work at altitude, about 6500 feet above sea level. So I add additional water, flour, and egg whites, and I have always had reliable results. Scratch cakes have their place too. Each recipe must be tested for altitude adjustments, at least for me, because of where I work, and necessary adjustments made until they come out. Just my 2 cents.

David