Home Made Ice Cream (2002–2012)

[Jason Perlow]

Hell yes they use additives. It may be a superpremium but they still have to use those things, even though it isnt listed on their ingredient list.

[wingding]

Any frozen ice cream product that goes out the door of an establishment for wholesale or retail sales is subject to stringent regulations,and has to be stabilized to prevent melting and spoiling while being transported.There's really no point to duplicating this at home,cause home made or restaurant ice cream can be way better than packaged stuff.Haagen-Daz has a high fat content-so if that's what you like,do a base with a higher proportion of eggs or cream.It's a skill that takes time to develop,and involves a fair amount of science-don't expect to become a master on your first batch of ice cream...

[oraklet]

"though it isnt listed on their ingredient list. "

in denmark it would be illegal (and it doesn't tell of any). not in usa?

and anyway, aren't the additives you mention used to make the cheap ice creams fluffy and horrible in many ways

[Steve Klc]

No oraklet, you misunderstand additives. Additives are used in commercial ice creams and sorbets--are perfectly natural, not harmful--and if used skillfully are undetectable. (Of course commercial ice creams can be gummed up or tricked up as dietary or cost cutting measures as well.)

I can't speak of Denmark, but in the US just read an ice cream or sorbet label. That's how it can be frozen for so long, packaged and shipped and stocked into freezer display cases--taken home and left in your freezer at home--and yet still remain perfectly soft and scoopable. Buy a pint of Haagen Daz Vanilla Swiss Almond or Mango sorbet or whatever and post the ingredients exactly as they appear, in order, and we'll compare.

When I first started playing with ice creams I used "Frozen Desserts" by Caroline Liddell and Robin Weir. I still recommend it for beginners. There's also a nice chapter on sorbet in Harold McGee's "The Curious Cook" when you decide to start playing around with sorbet--a different animal from ice cream. These are good for home cooks.

You have to turn to more advanced sources--and more advanced pastry chefs--to start to get a handle on the role different sugars and stabilizers can play in ice creams and sorbets--how to achieve more precision by using tools like a refractometer--and how you have to modify your recipes for the type of ice cream freezer you have, say for a PacoJet. This more advanced approach is still being written and isn't widely shared or available to pros yet either. In the industry and among food writers and cookbook authors there is resistance to this--it's seen as too complicated to understand and/or un-neccesary--what could be better than simple pure ingredients combined and churned simply?

That's the approach you'd be wise to start with at home, simple recipes repeated and tasted. Even with an inexpensive machine these batches should still come out good, and yet you can't even do that without acquiring some minimal basic science first--like understanding why and how you have to cook a creme anglaise to 175-180 F.

Well, as all of you who have tried to make ice creams at home--you know it ain't so simple. In fact, the more you dig into it the more you'll discover making ice creams and sorbets is far from simple, quite scientific but after an investment of time, quite rewarding.

[Jason Perlow]

Ben and Jerrys uses hydrogenated vegetable oils and other stuff for softening ingredients, and they too are classified as a superpremium ice cream. At least they admit it though.

go to this page and do a search on "Product" (no search text)

http://www.benandjerrys.com/ca/

What prevents your fruit from freezing or tasting icy?

 Answer

 At 05/09/2002 01:01 PM we wrote - Good question. The answer is sugar. Sugar retards the freezing process. You can test this by taking two plastic cups and filling one with water and the other with 1/4 cup of sugar and water. Put both in the freezer and see which one freezes first. In addition to sugar, our ice cream contains small amounts of the stabilizers carrageenan and guar gum. Both of these natural plant products stabilize the ice cream's melting properties, helping to keep water molecules from migrating through the product and causing iciness.

[oraklet]

wingding, jason and steve,

ok, i see what you mean. my point, really, is just that i'd like to be able to make the haagen daz sort of ice cream. you know, one of my few culinary triumphs was making vanilla ice cream with mixed fruit sorbet for 25 guests half of whom asked for the recipe... but this ice cream (which is pretty nice every time i make it) was "stabilized" by whipping the cream (instead of making a creme anglaise), and i feel that it still doesn't have the optimal "melting".

so please, what to do?

and perhaps my machine (a small philips) demands a different approach from my usual just-put-it-in-the-freezer-and-stir-every-quarter-of-an-hour method?

[Steve Klc]

Oraklet--tell us more about your machine, because that put it in the freezer and stir every quarter hour method, well, frankly isn't ever going to produce ice cream. Granite, maybe, can be made quite well without an ice cream machine--by putting a water/sugar/fruit mixture in the freezer, allowing it to partially freeze and then stirring it up--and then repeating. But for ice cream, you need an ice cream machine. And a good one.

Describe your process with the Phillips and the whipped cream as well. Sounds interesting and more like a frozen parfait--again, a different animal from ice cream. In fact, many people might experience more success with parfaits--with frozen dessert alternatives to ice cream--at home--than they would with ice cream. An interesting angle Oraklet.

And yet there will be some who will still wonder why "recipes" don't seem to work--even given the lack of understanding or agreement of terms and techniques and equipment issues--the lack of a critical mass if you will. We're seeing on this thread that there is confusion surrounding even the simplest of terms--and this shared language has to come before you can get into comparing recipes or looking for the magical perfect Haagen Daz recipe. In fact, one might question the wisdom of trying to emulate Haagen Dazs at all.

[oraklet]

"put it in the freezer and stir every quarter hour method, well, frankly isn't ever going to produce ice cream. But for ice cream, you need an ice cream machine. And a good one. Describe your process with the Phillips and the whipped cream as well. Sounds interesting and more like a frozen parfait--again, a different animal from ice cream."

before i got my machine, actually i didn't whip the cream till quite stiff, just to a creme anglaise structure(?). added it to the egg-sugar-vanilla mix, and froze it, stirring every quarter of an hour. as said, this makes for a very nice dessert (not ice cream?) which melts in a relatively satisfactory way. but it isn't perfect. with my machine, i've used a creme anglaise base. this hasn't produced a perfect melt, either: doesn't go directly from ice to liquid as i want it to (which is the reason that i ask if it were a good idea to make a "thin" anglaise). i've had the butter pockets too, but now i know why, thanx a lot.

[Bux]

I can't speak of Denmark, but in the US just read a label.  That's how it can be frozen for so long, packaged and shipped and stocked into freezer display cases--taken home and left in your freezer at home--and yet still remain perfectly soft and scoopable.  Buy a pint of Haagen Daz Vanilla Swiss Almond and post the ingredients exactly as they appear, in order, and we'll compare.

Jason implies that the labels don't list everything.

Hell yes they use additives. It may be a superpremium but they still have to use those things, even though it isnt listed on their ingredient list.

My understanding was that the original Haagen-Daz Vanilla had nothing but dairy, vanilla and eggs. This is not true for the newer flavors and especially not true for those introduced after it was bought out. I don't know if the original Vanilla has stabilizers today, but it's not necessarily the same formula as the Vanilla Swiss Almond. I've always assumed the stabilizers were added either to compensate for ingredients in the new flavors that didn't freeze well or to compensate for corporate sloppiness. Expansion in the size of the operation might make stabilizers necessary even if there was no sloppiness in the operation.

Some ice creams seem plastic and don't even melt properly in your mouth. I suppose it's a matter of which stabilizers are used as well as how much. Jason also mentioned hydrogenated non dairy fats. I've always assumed these entered into "premium" ice creams as an ingredient in the mix ins--e.g. shortening used to bake the cookies that are crumbled into the mix. Of course the English have long "enjoyed" hydrogenated non cocoa butter fat in their chocolate and prevented the EU from requiring that products with these fats not be labeled as chocolate. I suppose one could make a "chocolate" frozen confection ("chocolate ice 'creme'") using crisco and no dairy fat or cocoa fat that wouldn't melt at room temperature. At some price point it would probably sell okay.

Does the current Haagen-Daz Vanilla have additives? No one has mentioned Breyer's Vanilla which in spite of a high air content is one of the more delicious tasting ice creams. They use real vanilla as well and I wonder about the point of making one's own vanilla ice cream without real vanilla beans when you can get Breyer's at well below top premium price. I believe there are no eggs in Breyer's and it can get a bit grainy if not properly handled all along the way.

[wingding]

Oraklet;Try the gelato recipe that I posted-it will make a thin,but rich anglaise.[i've been making this base for the past two weeks-it's good]First heat 1 liter milk to a simmer,add 2 vanilla beans,split and scraped,and 1 or 2 crushed coffee beans.Let this steep for an hour.Strain the liquid ,return to the pot with 175 grams of sugar,and bring to a bare boil.Whisk the 10 egg yolks with175grams of sugar,temper the milk,and carefully cook the mixture until it coats your spoon,or reaches 85 c.Strain immediately,throw in a pinch of salt,and chill in an ice bath.Let the mixture sit overnight in the refrigerator and then turn it in your machine-you could subsitute maybe 1/4 cup of milk with heavy cream if you wish...

Edited December 28, 2002 by wingding (log)

[chefette]

Let's see.... we grow up eating industrially produced ice cream in a day and age where even the most 'natural' ice creams are made using finely tuned recipes based on chemical analysis of the ingredients (even if those are just millk, cream, eggs, sugar, and vanilla). These ice creams are produced in huge batches in temperature controlled locations in huge specialized machines.

The industrial ice creams that we enjoy (or tolerate) were introduced to save us the trouble of churning the stuff in ice filled buckets. They did their best to approximate the flavor and consistency of the good ole home made stuff. But like all good machines that wasn't enough and they went far beyond the capacity of mere mortals in their homes.

Now we wish to create our own ice creams and try our best to emulate those produced by the industrial producers.

I spent about two weeks this summer trying to perfect Mint Chip ice cream (based on the Haagen Dazs). I can therefore sympathize with you in this quest for the "perfect" recipe with "perfect" flavor, texture, meltiness. It is a slow process and you are financially and personally invested by the time you finally get to try the end results of your labor and it is a real let down when the results are not what you are after. It does seem that the milk/cream ratio is the tricky part. I thought my first batch was too thin tasting and on the icy side (awww) - I added more yolks and cut back on milk in favor of cream (too fatty - yuck), I returned to my original ratio of milk/cream/yolks and tried a bit of pectin (like rubber cement ewwww), I ended up using more milk than cream and a bit more sugar than the recipe I started with suggested and was fairly satisfied with the results. My other basic problems were getting the mint flavor that I wanted (make a syrup?, cold infuse the cream?, hot infuse the cream?...)

I had not really thought about my efforts to emulate a commercial product until I read your post and it really hit me - home cook emulates industry emulating home cooks.

Anyone got a recipe for Wonderbread? Campbells chicken noodle soup? Ragu pasta sauce? Jello pudding?

[pjs]

For what it's worth, when the ice cream came out of the the machine it went into what I remember what we called the "shock freezer"--temp way below zero. I think this was to avoid the dreaded ice-crystals. After a day or two it was transferred to a regular freezer. Ingredients were always 28% butterfat ice cream mix, sugar and flavorings, nothing else. We used a custard mix with eggs in a soft-serve machine in a futile attempt to compete with Carvel whose product was just a mediocre soft-serve ice cream.

PJ

[Anna N]

OK so what I made may be technically a frozen custard but my son-in-law thought it was mighty fine ice cream.

I guess I have a great deal to learn - I don't want to make ice cream just like I can buy in the store - what the heck - I'll just walk over and buy a quart. I wanted an ice cream maker so that I could make different flavours than are available in the store.

It all seemed so simple - get an ice cream maker, follow the recipes in the accompanying booklet and VOILA ! Ha - now I find out that ice cream isn't really ice cream at least not the recipe in the book since it uses eggs, heavy cream and milk. But it surely did taste good and I'd be more than happy to make frozen custard if it tastes this good.

Since the machine I have - Cuisinart ICE-20 is an inexpensive model, with a removable container, it seems I will need to keep my sights set on what one can accomplish with such a limited machine. I don't really aspire to become an expert ice cream maker - just to make some interesting desserts that please my guests.

For now I will take note of all the hints given, try Alton Brown's recipe and hope to solve the problem of ice crystals forming on the surface of the bowl. I honestly don't aspire to any more than this. But I am interested enough to see what my local library has - especially the two books mentioned. Thanks for all the information and the help.

[Jason Perlow]

Dont get discouraged. Even with a $300 Il Gelatio, Rachel and I encountered the same exact problems you did the first few times. It requires a lot of trial and error to tweak the recipe for what the machine can handle. Its Ice Cream Alchemy.

[Suvir Saran]

Dont get discouraged. Even with a $300 Il Gelatio, Rachel and I encountered the same exact problems you did the first few times. It requires a lot of trial and error to tweak the recipe for what the machine can handle. Its Ice Cream Alchemy.

Thanks Jason for saying what you did. You are kind and bold to be so honest. Many with expensive gadgets and tools, can never accept that another with far less state of the art equipment can find similar happiness.

I worked with a friend that has recently bought the machine that was favored on eGullets ice cream machine thread. It was my suggestion (after having learned a great deal courtesy of eGullet and all the great posts on that thread) . He has money to waste. And was happy letting me test his machine to see if I wanted to get the same. I was not sure I wanted to get a machine like that after all, since I live in a NYC apartment and space is not a luxury easily afforded. I am glad I was not impulsive to have bought the machine for myself too. Now I realize, I may never need those expensive ones.

The results are certainly better than from the inexpensive models that I have worked with. But not close to what one can find commercially. That is not to say that I find commercially prepared ice cream more desirable.

Indeed he and I will get better with this as time goes on. But again, I wonder if we will ever get to a point where we get the perfect, consistently delivered product. But do we even really want that? I am happy with ice cream alchemy. And happy with no so perfect results.

In fact even having parfait (called ice cream by those that are unafraid of being wrong) made by someone at home, I get a smile on my face. The effort another makes, the fresh fruit or the smile it is served with and the stories that accompany its service, often make up far more than what is lost in the process of using a greater and more expensive and better machine.

At Jacks Fifth, Heather Carlucci (pastry chef) made some of the best ice cream I have had at any restaurant in America. She was one of the first chefs to get noticed with great amount if ink by the new food critic of the New York Times, William Grimes in his review of Jacks Fifth (2 Stars, at a time when he was even more cautious and strict). Her ice creams were superb. Her flavors were ethereal and inspiring of compliments even from the most jaded and most well traveled and experienced customers that came in. All that ate her ice cream left changed by that experience. Did the ice cream come close to what Ben & Jerry's of Haagen Dazs deliver? Nope, well it was the best I have ever eaten, and I eat A LOT of ice cream. But it was amazing for what it gave in its novelty. I do not think anyone that enjoyed it and found it brilliant even bothered comparing it to the commercial brands. And they also did not care if it was made in any special machine. They loved the flavors she would make. From the plain old vanilla to the mint chip to English toffee and banana chocolate chip and gianduja or her most amazing fruity and intensely flavorful sorbets. Her mastery was in her pride in making a product that would never be available in a store and the customers enjoyed it for that more than its perfection or closeness to a commercial brand.

I cannot agree more with Jason about the long trial and error period before you find a recipe that really works for your machine and your taste. But more importantly, never worry about coming close to what you experience commercially. And never worry about not having the most expensive and best machine. Machines can only do so much. In the end, you can do a lot by your efforts and mastery of your circumstances. Not all of us are in the same situation. I could own the best ice cream machine but have little money left to buy quality ingredients. That leaves me with a bad product. I could have a great machine but no imagination or taste, and again, I am left with a bad product.

And actually, I miss the ice cream hand-churned for me as a kid in the old fashioned wooden machines. Even sitting outdoors in the cold nights in Kashmir, I would crave that ice cream. And even 25 years after my first taste of that ice cream, it still is the tastiest ice cream I have ever had. Is it really the tastiest? Nope. That would be a lie. But to my memory and my emotional being, it is. But the traveler in me, the ice cream fanatic that I am (I have more ice cream in my freezer than most living in several NYC blocks. And Ed Schoenfeld and some others that have been to my apartment and peeked into the freezer, can attest to that, or even share stories of having pints of ice cream falling from the freezer for they are packed till the freezer is full), has tasted many that are amazing. But even so, that hand-churned ice cream I tasted in Sri Nagar (capital of Kashmir) as a kid and had a lot of as a kid, is the best vanilla ice cream I can think of. And come to think of it, it was churned and made by a man that did not even speak English. Knew nothing about Vanilla. To him Vanilla was a brown liquid that came in a bottle and his employer had taught him to use when making this basic ice cream. At other times he would make lyche ice cream (that truly is the best Lychee ice cream I will ever eat), mango ice cream, cherry ice cream, banana and orange.

Keep trying.. and keep making others and yourself happy. That is what matters. Not what others think or say. You need to enjoy what you have and eat. That is always first and foremost.

Your son-in-law is a smart man. And certainly a sensitive man. Anna, I would believe him for what he said. Enjoyment of another does not always need great labels. Simple things can bring great happiness. And riches like those one cannot find easily, even if given to us in great numbers, hardly assure happiness in their enjoyment.

What flavor did you make for your son-in-law? Or have you shared that information and I have forgotten? Sorry if that is the case.

[Bux]

We have raspberry bushes in pots on our roof. They are not the best berries in the world and often ripen in misshapen odd berries, but some years we have had bumper crops. From them we have made the most wonderful intense sorbets and ice creams using a machine that must have cost about twenty bucks. Maybe it was little granular or had other faults, but it was a great treat.

[Suvir Saran]

We have raspberry bushes in pots on our roof. They are not the best berries in the world and often ripen in misshapen odd berries, but some years we have had bumper crops. From them we have made the most wonderful intense sorbets and ice creams using a machine that must have cost about twenty bucks. Maybe it was little granular or had other faults, but it was a great treat.

Bux, just reading your little post, I envy you and those that enjoyed the ice cream made with those berries.

And yes who cares if it were little granular or had other flaws.. that you made it yourself, with berries grown on your roof, is enough to charm and leave a lasting impression on anyone that may have been lucky enough to taste it.

When can I come over for some?

I may even bring you some strawberries that I grow on our roof. Some of the sweetest and tastiest berries you can find in NYC.

[Anna N]

What flavor did you make for your son-in-law? Or have you shared that information and I have forgotten?  Sorry if that is the case.

It was just plain old vanilla made with the "brown liquid" since I couldn't find any vanilla beans (at least it was the pure version not the artificial).

Your posts bring tears to my eyes, Suvir, not only because you write so well but because you understand that food made with love and served with a generosity of spirit is the only true ambrosia.

[Rachel Perlow]

The best thing about the machine we have is not having to prefreeze a container in the freezer. Other than that, it pretty much works like any other ice cream machine. A dasher turns and scrapes the batter until it is frozen. Just have fun playing and eating the results of your experiments.

[Bux]

Bux, just reading your little post, I envy you and those that enjoyed the ice cream made with those berries.

And yes who cares if it were little granular or had other flaws.. that you made it yourself, with berries grown on your roof, is enough to charm and leave a lasting impression on anyone that may have been lucky enough to taste it.

When can I come over for some?

I may even bring you some strawberries that I grow on our roof. Some of the sweetest and tastiest berries you can find in NYC.

Under those circumstances the ice cream takes on a mythic quality. If fact, the machine is not really good enough to match commercial production. It also sits in the freezer while churning, so it's not always possible to use unless the freezer is half empty. Worse yet, the last crop of berries was very meager. I'm not sure if it was just a bad crop or if we're paying the price for ignoring the garden and not pruning as we've done recently.

When is Batali's pizza and ice cream parlor opening? I am expecting some fine ice cream. If anyone is listening I think chestnuts should make some very nice winter gelato.

[Suvir Saran]

I hope we can taste the ice cream at Batalis new restaurant.

And we may be in luck, for the ice cream is not Batalis but a very well respected and talentd NYC pastry chef.

[pjs]

With simple syrup and good flavorings you can also make killer "Italian Ices" in the machine.

PJ

[oraklet]

wingding and all you other nice guys and dolls:

i'll give it another try - or ten - when i return from sweden. thank you all!

[Anna N]

So, my next effort will definitely be the Alton Brown with the pectin source and I will chill my ingredients over night before putting them in the machine.  I will report back - we just need to eat up the vanilla ice cream and berry frozen yogourt first - else there'll be no room in the freezer for anything!  But I promise to report back when I do make it.

Again, thanks to everyone for their help - this board is GREAT!

Well I finally found room in my freezer and made Alton Brown's recipe for vanilla ice cream - since I couldn't find peach preserves, I used a couple of spoons of marmalade (jelly part only - no fruit) and it turned out much, much better. The texture was nice and it tasted much more like ice cream than frozen custard.

Still not entirely satisfied and suspect the vanilla bean - could only find one in town and it had no country of origin and might have been older than Methusaleh. Will try to source vanilla beans that at least have country of origin and some clue of age before I try it again.

But supposing I now want to make raspberry ice cream using frozen raspberries (not in syrup - these are flash-frozen). What would I do, add them just before taking the ice cream out of the ice cream maker? I don't want them to end up hard as rocks - any tips?

Many thanks for your help - and no, I couldn't taste the marmalade but did detect one "orange" vanilla seed.

[Suvir Saran]

Anna I am glad you had success.

I must add here that some of us in NYC have enjoyed some great Gelato and Sorbetti at Otto.

If these is anything we can learn from this experience, it is that one must never think one has learned enough.

Meredith Kurtzman, the pastry chef at Otto has taken classics and transformed them with new ideas, proportions and ingredients and made stuff that is absolutely delicious.

I have come back from Otto inspired that there is hope for us for years to come if each of us can go back to our classics, understand them well and create what would be best for our tables today.

Meredith, if you read this, congratulations for your great work at Otto and many thanks for all the hard work you surely have put into these delightful cups of gelato and sorbets you send out from your dessert section in Otto's kitchen.