What's Your Favorite Bottled Pasta Sauce?

[deltadoc]

I have not purchased sauce in a jar.. But are you saying, a person with fresh tomatos cant beat a jarred sauce? I cant believe it..

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First of all, I'm not saying that, the guy who wrote the "encyclopizza" web site said that about canned tomato product (sauce, pizza sauce, paste). I just repeated what I read that he wrote.

But, after over 35 years of canning fresh Roma (and other varieties) from the Farmer's market and my own garden, I realize from experience that I cannot get that "tomato-y" taste in my sauces like I can from using canned product.

The guy from encylopizza put together the website strictly for professional pizzerias. The amount of technical information is astounding. What he says makes much sense to me, because boiling fresh tomato juice at atmospheric pressure, just because of the higher temperatures cannot help but decrease the flavor and nutrient content. Manufacturer's can reduce juice by pressurized low temperature processing, which cannot help but retain flavor and nutrients. Its chemistry 101. Heat is energy. Energy can break chemical bonds. Less energy, less bond breakage. This equates in my mind to more flavor. My taste buds confirm what my mind equates.

Anyway, I agree with Jason, that you really you really "can't get that concentrated tomato concasse-like flavor strictly from cooking down fresh tomatoes in the home kitchen".

Anyway, in the end, one must do what pleases one's self.

I'm happy if y'all are happy! It's summertime, man, and the living is easy~!

doc

[jsolomon]

because boiling fresh tomato juice at atmospheric pressure, just because of the higher temperatures cannot help but decrease the flavor and nutrient content.  Manufacturer's can reduce juice by pressurized low temperature processing, which cannot help but retain flavor and nutrients.  Its chemistry 101.  Heat is energy.  Energy can break chemical bonds.  Less energy, less bond breakage. 

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Uh, you got your Clausius Clapeyron terms backward. Higher pressure means higher temperature to boil, higher temperature means more bond breakage.

But, if it is volatile compounds that are boiling away, then a closed vessel, like manufacturers may use, is the best bet.

I'm also relatively certain that there are distinctions in tomato variety and additives that fall under "spices and herbs" that assist in the extra "tomatoey"-ness.

Edit to fix spelling and to add Wikipedia entry

Edited April 21, 2006 by jsolomon (log)

[peanutgirl]

FYI... Rao's is on sale at Shop Rite for $5.99 .

[azureus]

because boiling fresh tomato juice at atmospheric pressure, just because of the higher temperatures cannot help but decrease the flavor and nutrient content.  Manufacturer's can reduce juice by pressurized low temperature processing, which cannot help but retain flavor and nutrients.  Its chemistry 101.  Heat is energy.  Energy can break chemical bonds.  Less energy, less bond breakage. 

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Uh, you got your Claussius Clapeyron terms backward. Higher pressure means higher temperature to boil, higher temperature means more bond breakage.

But, if it is volatile compounds that are boiling away, then a closed vessel, like manufacturers may use, is the best bet.

I'm also relatively certain that there are distinctions in tomato variety and additives that fall under "spices and herbs" that assist in the extra "tomatoey"-ness.

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I have to side with jsolomon in this. My home-made sauces taste quite tomato-y. I simmer my tomatoes in large stock pots over low heat on the stove for several hours. The large surface area of the pots helps remove extra moisture for a thicker sauce without producing an "overcooked" flavor. I freeze my sauces, which further preserves the taste of "freshness". The long processing from home-canning does affect flavor. Last fall I put up single-variety batches of heirloom tomatoes in different colors--yellow, orange, red, and black. The flavors of each variety have remained tasty and distinct despite the long simmering.

The soil that the tomatoes are grown in, and the amount of water that the plants receive can also affect the flavor.

April

[deltadoc]

Uh, you got your Clausius Clapeyron terms backward.  Higher pressure means higher temperature to boil, higher temperature means more bond breakage.

You're right~! I meant to say low pressure and temperature!

The lower heat needed at lower pressures then contributes to less bond breakage in the tomato juice molecules.

Thanks for keeping me straight!

doc

[Rebecca263]

So, should I add a jar of Azureus and a jar of Deltadoc to the lineup?

[azureus]

So, should I add a jar of Azureus and a jar of Deltadoc to the lineup?

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I'd send you some if I could figure out how to get it there!

April

[Rebecca263]

Yes, we're in 2 different middle of nowheres, aren't we?

[Jason Perlow]

And, if you haven't already, try these.

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You wouldn't happen to have a local Jersey source of these, would you?

I've been fairly happy with the imported Italian canned bulk tomatoes I've been buying in the Bronx from Teitel Bros. Is there really a huge difference between those and actual DOP San Marzanos? $3.69 for a 14oz can just sounds freaking outrageous to me when I can get regular Italian canned tomatoes for like $1.40 per 35 ounce can.. Thats like less than 10 percent of the price of those DOPs.

Our existing canned tomato discussion, BTW, is here:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=61833

Also, this importer appears to have decent prices on DOP San Marzanos in cans, but you have to buy 50lbs of them at a time for him to even do business with you:

http://www.sanmarzanoimports.com/prod01.htm

[jgm]

Just wondering...

I wonder if one batch of tomatoes could be reduced down significantly, over low heat, to produce a tomato paste type sauce. If so, some of that could be added to a regular homemade sauce to make it more tomato-ey. In other words, homemade tomato paste + homemade tomato sauce.

Your thoughts? Your experiences?

[Jason Perlow]

You can make concasse but its time intensive. Doesn't come out the same as manufactured paste though.

[Pontormo]

There's also this thread devoted specifically to San Marzano tomatoes.

The local Balducci's carries Le Valle DOP at $2.99 for 35 oz. cans; for $1.99 you can get same brand, but made with tomatoes from numerous sources--I am guessing--processed in San Marzano.

I have both types at home and going to conduct a taste test one of these days. However, I don't agree completely with a post upthread in the link provided here that claims it's not worth buying the least expensive of the two. The $2 can is superior to most brands of canned Italian plum tomatoes I've had, that is, ever since Whole Foods took over one Italian company that processes organic tomatoes. It may be that the DOP's will blow my socks off (it's cold and rainy today), but I associate DOP more with assurances that a product or food item comes from one particular place and that place only than with quality, even though the two often go hand and hand and there very well may be a quality of terroir that endures with the canned tomatoes from the fields of Sarnese Nocerino that elevates them above all others.

[azureus]

Just wondering...

I wonder if one batch of tomatoes could be reduced down significantly, over low heat, to produce a tomato paste type sauce.  If so, some of that could be added to a regular homemade sauce to make it more tomato-ey.  In other words, homemade tomato paste + homemade tomato sauce.

Your thoughts?  Your experiences?

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I dry many of my own tomatoes and use them to thicken sauces. It works well.

Rebecca, we seem to have hijacked your jarred sauce thread.

April

[Rebecca263]

That's OK by me, I'm a home made sauce/gravy girl myself, so far. I have to mention to you all, I was talking to my neighbor over the gardening today. He's Italian and he says that Rao's is his favorite. I can't comment on this, I'll have Rao's and Patsy's at the tasting, but I won't be judging, as they're in the stable of companies I'll be distributing. Still, it seems I got lucky, the product I'll be delivering seems to get high marks from people! Whew! Now, I've just got to get people's input of the other 10,000 items!

[Majra]

I used to buy Mario Batali's basic sauce in a jar at Trader Joe's. When I moved away and loss access to TJs, I began making the Batali sauce from scratch. To my amazement, the homemade tastes exactly the same as the jarred!

[jgm]

When I have the time and opportunity, I generally put up several gallons of tomato sauce riffed off of Alton Brown's baked sauce.  Now, my understanding of industrial food processing inclines me to believe this might be a slightly easier/quicker method of making a tomato sauce.

This is all a very long run up to, does anyone?  If not, why not?

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I just tried this recipe, and it was awesome!

I started with less-than-optimal ingredients: last summer's roma tomatoes, vacuum packed and frozen. When thawed, they were a soggy mess. But I seeded 'em and cored 'em anyway, seasoned and baked as directed, and put them through a food mill.

Even though I counted out 20 tomatoes, I think I had an overall lower volume, due to the liquid lost in the freezing and thawing process. I ended up with only about 1/2 cup of sauce, so I didn't bother to add the wine to it and cook it. Even then, it had a rich, very tomato-ey flavor, and I do not find it lacking in flavor at all. Looks like we're having spaghetti this weekend, since I'm dying to pick up fresh tomatoes tomorrow and try this again. This recipe/method is definitely a keeper. Do you ever add meat to it? If so, do you use beef or sausage? Anything to do other than brown it and add it in?

jsolomon, your fiancee is one lucky woman! Thanks for the heads-up on this. We're putting out 10 tomato plants this year. Wonder if that will be enough. . . ???

[TongoRad]

And, if you haven't already, try these.

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You wouldn't happen to have a local Jersey source of these, would you?

I've been fairly happy with the imported Italian canned bulk tomatoes I've been buying in the Bronx from Teitel Bros. Is there really a huge difference between those and actual DOP San Marzanos? $3.69 for a 14oz can just sounds freaking outrageous to me when I can get regular Italian canned tomatoes for like $1.40 per 35 ounce can.. Thats like less than 10 percent of the price of those DOPs.

...

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My father and I get them on Long Island (we share it by the case), but if they are available in NJ I'm sure he can find out where. I'll have him look into it for you.

They're definitely very high quality, noticably so, IMO (in fact the first time I tried my dad's sauce made with them I could't help remarking "how in the hell did you learn how to cook?" ), but whether they are worth the $$$ is probably left to the individual. I don't use them all the time but I think they are certainly worth it for things like Marcella Hazan's tomato/butter onion sauce or even a killer tomato soup, where the tomatoes are the focus. You gotta try 'em at least once.

[ghostrider]

When you're working 50-60 hour weeks year in & year out, sometimes jarred sauces are a useful thing. If you've never been so bone tired that making a sauce even by opening a can is too much effort, you're lucky.

At such times, I originally went for Aunt Millie's, because it had the least amount of extraneous stuff in it. I think it may have had a bit of sugar but it beat the alternatives. Then the original Classico came along and it seemed to taste better (less sweet) to me, and had no additives, so I switched.

Then I got laid off & the need for these things pretty much evaporated.

Now, since I work at an Italian deli, when I don't feel like making my own, I take home a container of their freshly made sauce. I know that the ingredients are pure & simple and it tastes good.

I don't really enjoy making sauce from canned tomatoes nearly as much as I do from fresh Jersey plum tomatoes when they're in season, so I'll still go for a sauce I don't make in the off season when I feel like it.

[Cleo]

Even though I love the Rao's marinara sauce, I decided to try another brand to see if it was as good. I thought that maybe I was wasting my money. I tried the Classico tomato & basil.

I have to say, it wasn't nearly as good as Rao's. I felt that the overall taste of the Classico tasted processed and might as well have been Ragu.

I looked for the Mom's sauce, but haven't seen it thus far in NYC, so until then, I will keep spending my money on Rao's...

[phaelon56]

I have not purchased sauce in a jar.. But are you saying, a person with fresh tomatos cant beat a jarred sauce?  I cant believe it..

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You and me both.

I also can't believe the argument of "no access to tomatoes" and "no time".

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Let's assume that you get up at 5:00 AM to head to work and get home between 6:30 and 9:00 PM on any given day. And you work one day on weekends. And it's a minimum 15 minute detour on the way home to stop for groceries. Add to that the time necessary to chop some herbs, mince and sautee garlic, cop and sautee onions and then prepare the tomatoes before cooking the sauce.

And you're doing all of this for one person (yourself) who will consume no more than one cup of sauce a maxiumum of twice in a week.

Jarred sauce has a place in my household. Did I mention that fresh tomatoes are expensive and generally of mediocre quality in my area for ten months of the year?

[nessa]

I have one jarred sauce that I like, several that I use. I love the Barilla Black and Green Olive, formerly known as Puttanesca. I love it so much I will eat it out of the jar cold. Its really quite good on fish. That being said, I buy a store brand to feed the SO. He likes his sauce smooth, no tomato chunks, and other than that isn't picky. I have, however been tossing around the idea of learning how to can, and making my own jars of sauce. I think it would be more satisfying, if I could manage to keep botulism out of the picture.... I guess I could freeze the sauce but thats just not as convenient.

[phaelon56]

I love the Barilla Black and Green Olive, formerly known as Puttanesca

Please tell me they didn't change it for political correctness

I actually wonder if they changed it for marketing reasons since the average non-food oriented person who is not of Italian extraction likely doesn't know what's in a Puttanesca sauce.

[jsolomon]

Let's assume that you get up at 5:00 AM to head to work and get home between 6:30 and 9:00 PM on any given day. And you work one day on weekends.  And it's a minimum 15  minute detour on the way home to stop for groceries. Add to that the time necessary to chop some herbs, mince and sautee garlic, cop and sautee onions and then prepare the tomatoes before cooking the sauce. 

And you're doing all of this for one person (yourself) who will consume no more than one cup of sauce a maxiumum of twice in a week.

Jarred sauce has a place in my household.  Did I mention that fresh tomatoes are expensive and generally of mediocre quality in my area for ten months of the year?

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Yes, but Owen, you're blatantly ignoring the choices you make for your place in the social contract. You are a high intelligent, driven person. If tomatoes were higher on your list, you would make room or time for them.

When you state, "I have no time, or access" you are leaving things unsaid.

[NWKate]

My son prefers jarred sauce-gag. For myself, I choose to take the time on weekends to make what I consider to be a good quality sauce that I freeze in smaller portions to use as needed. Since I find cooking both therapeutic and recreational, jarred sauce will have no place in my home once my son leaves for college. Gustatorilly- Kate

[MelissaH]

Let's assume that you get up at 5:00 AM to head to work and get home between 6:30 and 9:00 PM on any given day. And you work one day on weekends.  And it's a minimum 15  minute detour on the way home to stop for groceries. Add to that the time necessary to chop some herbs, mince and sautee garlic, cop and sautee onions and then prepare the tomatoes before cooking the sauce. 

And you're doing all of this for one person (yourself) who will consume no more than one cup of sauce a maxiumum of twice in a week.

Jarred sauce has a place in my household.  Did I mention that fresh tomatoes are expensive and generally of mediocre quality in my area for ten months of the year?

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Yes, but Owen, you're blatantly ignoring the choices you make for your place in the social contract. You are a high intelligent, driven person. If tomatoes were higher on your list, you would make room or time for them.

When you state, "I have no time, or access" you are leaving things unsaid.

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Owen, I'm with you.

My husband and I are both teaching this semester. We're regularly on campus 10+ hours a day, and even when we aren't on campus we're working, as long as school's in session. Many days, when we get home we're both tired enough that even putting a pot of water on to boil seems like a lot of work. It's easier on those days to open a jar, to pair with a reasonable brand of dried pasta.

Do we find cooking both therapeutic and recreational? Sure. Just not when we get home starving after 8 PM. Weekends? Those are for catching up on grading, lecture notes, exam writing, and all the other stuff that doesn't happen during the week. If we can make up a batch of sauce at some point and freeze in portions, great. But it's much easier to open a jar than to either plan enough ahead of time to take it out of the freezer, or to try and microwave-thaw it without giving yourself a major cleanup task.

MelissaH