Freezing Pastries & Baked Goods

[McDuff]

I baked off some frozen Danish units this morning, part of a new line we're supposed to rolling out, and when we did the test baking the stuff came out great, but these, with a pack date of June 3, came out like sinkers. Anybody know the shelf life of a laminated dough made without some kind of special freezer stable yeast? And what would we be looking at here for yeast, SAF gold, or something like that? And is a month maybe a bit too long to hold a Danish dough? Bear in mind this is the earthy crunchy grocery store with no preservatives and all-natural ingredients.

[Wendy DeBord]

Several years ago I was working at a club that bought in danish sheets......then I was supposed to shape, fill and bake off. I asked around about it because it didn't work for me regardless of advice followed...........anyway I never could get issues resolved. But I think I've learned more about it thru that process.

I really think it's handling in the shipping process must be a major factor in it's future sucess. Most of our suppliers don't ship in refridgerated or freezer trucks and I believe alot of problems begin with this issue. Since it's a heavy fat dough I think it gets too wet from defrosting and refreezing or you get it too dry with freezer burn and it cracks when you proof. It's not the same as shipping puff pastry and given it's aready filled I think some of the moisture from the filling leaches into the dough too.

I make my own danish dough and freeze it all the time. I've held it for 6 months with-out any real neg. effects. It doesn't require a special yeast, but I do think you should add extra yeast to allow for some of it to dye off in the process of freezing.

When I've used purchased danish it was a struggle to get it defrosted and proofed properly. There would be soo much condensation bleeding out when you defrosted it. Then I couldn't ever hit the right temp. to proof it. I didn't have a proofer and just used room temp., most days it leached out fat as I proofed (regardless of my kitchen temp.)......so that would lead me to under proof....yuk.

Today I'd handle it differently. I'd proof it totally in the cooler, even if it took days. Then take it out, just bring it to room temp. and then bake. I noticed when Albert Uster was doing his personal push of their new line of danish thats pretty much what they did when they did a sample baked off in our ovens. They walked in the door with defrosted cold danish and threw it straight in the oven, no proofing. Baked on high heat, high fan with a steam injection.

As far as the packing date.............I don't think you can determine if thats the issue or not or if it's one of several factors. Maybe once you get this product mastered you'll know.......

[artisanbaker]

more info please,

-baker's math formula including starter type if applicable

-fermentation times

-freezer type

[tan319]

Wendy,

do you guys have one of those Hobart steam/convection ovens with a draught?

I just stumbled into one at the French bakery that I work at in the mornings.

Looks awesome!

If anyone reading this is interested in buying it (drat! I would love too!)

It's going for 2 grand.

As far as Danish goes, we freeze ours all the time.

We use fresh yeast for the dough.

It doesn't stick around for too long though.

[McDuff]

more info please,

-baker's math formula including starter type if applicable

-fermentation times

-freezer type

Can't really tell you any of that. I have the formula, but it's proprietary info. It looks pretty straightforward though. It uses fresh yeast, but after I reported back to the big boss that these things are nfg, he crabbed to the bakehouse that made them and they are switching the yeast, that was going to happen anyway. I left some on the counter all night to proof, covered with an inverted sheet pan, and all the did was dry out. they puffed up, but they're really not the right thing.

[artisanbaker]

ok

blast freezer helps TREMENDOUSLY, you can probably gain 3-4 months here alone

other than that the dough should be made with a pre ferment and given little first fermentation time. the goal is to process the dough to a frozen product as quickly as possible.

2.5% ish of saf gold is a good starting point

[McDuff]

2.5% ish of saf gold is a good starting point

I'm not saying that sounds like a lot, but I always figure a percentage of yeast pretending it was fresh yeast, and then making the downward adjustment to instant. So 2.5% instant would work out to be more like 7.5% fresh, wouldn't it? And that doesn't seem like too overly much since it's an enriched dough and one would want to bump the amount upwards by 25% anyway, since it's going to be frozen.

[artisanbaker]

2.5 would behave more like 6 fresh imo

[McDuff]

2.5 would behave more like 6 fresh imo

What I'm asking is, if a formula calls for 2.5 instant yeast, would you use 2.5 fresh, or make the upward adjustment? Again, 6% doesn't seem out of whack for an enriched laminated dough which is going to be frozen.

[artisanbaker]

either 2.5% instant or 6% fresh will really have the dough movin, so that after a while in the freezer it will still have so power.

i would never substitute 1:1

I always reduce the qty of instant to 40% of the fresh weight.

PS! the storage temperature matters as well. make sure that you try to keep them under 0F if possible

[McDuff]

i would never substitute 1:1

I always reduce the qty of instant to 40% of the fresh weight.

That's the tidbit I was angling for.

[melmck]

i am smack dab in the middle of danish production, and we have way more problems with fresh yeast, so now i use SAF gold. works better in all my laminates. also i use the danish w/ a sponge recipe from progressivebaker.com make the sponge the night b4.

[McDuff]

It turned out that this batch of product was nfg. We've been using some newer units this past week and getting much better results.

[Luckylies]

So folks I'm catering a party coming up soon, and as I'm not a pastry chef I'd like to make most of the items ahead of time- and freeze them (so I dont have to worry about a last minute time crunch) These petit fours dont need to be completely whole, just really the important parts like the fillings and stuff. I have no experiance with freezing pastry so I'm trying to avoid any FUBAR-type consequences.

This thread is really just for people who want to know- DOES ------ FREEZE WELL?

So I submit for your approval:

Pre piped choux puffs (baked, unbaked?)

Ganache (for truffles)

Lemon curd (for filling tartlets)

Mexican wedding cake dough

[MightyD]

i've frozen:

baked choux pastries, unfilled - you can briefly toast them in a hot oven on day of serving to freshen them up

ganache - i've frozen them with no problems but did not use them for truffles - i used them for cake fillings and toppings

lemon curd - frozen, no problem

mexican wedding cake dough - do you mean the little nutty cookies? if so, i've shaped them, frozen them, baked them directly from the freezer

[Luckylies]

um...awesome. Now I just have to clear out some White Castle burgers to make room for the sugar goods...

[alanamoana]

hey em,

howz things?

you can freeze choux baked or unbaked. it might be nicer to freeze the dough raw because when baked fresh they just taste better. also, they take up less space in the freezer when raw.

ganache doesn't have to be frozen and will keep very well in the fridge for at least a week. just easier to deal with than frozen. if you have the fridge space.

also, you can make your tart dough ahead of time and freeze.

i'm surprised you just didn't check the walk-in freezer at work (if you're still there) to see what Chris has frozen

alana

[Luckylies]

hey em,

howz things?

you can freeze choux baked or unbaked.  it might be nicer to freeze the dough raw because when baked fresh they just taste better.  also, they take up less space in the freezer when raw.

ganache doesn't have to be frozen and will keep very well in the fridge for at least a week.  just easier to deal with than frozen.  if you have the fridge space.

also, you can make your tart dough ahead of time and freeze.

i'm surprised you just didn't check the walk-in freezer at work (if you're still there) to see what Chris has frozen 

alana

←

I would, but he'd see me coming (him being psychic and all)

[alanamoana]

don't you mean psychotic?! hehehe

chris, if you're reading this, i'm just kidding!

[stuart_s]

I just ordered some bagels. I'm hoping you'll tell me it was only an indulgence and not a huge waste.

Can these be frozen? Will they be good as new? Close enough? There's not much point to shipping the world's best bagels if they end up tasting like Ohio's best bagels. Will they even survive the shipping? Some are bialys and some are raisin cinammon. How does that affect your answers? Supposedly, bialys are more shipable.

Have you actually tried this?

Assuming it's possible, what's the best way of freezing them? And what's the best way of reviving them?

Thank you

-Stuart

[Tweety69bird]

OK, I'll take a stab at this. First of all, you ordered your bagels from Montreal, right? Second, I have no idea what a bialy is, but I do know you can freeze bagels just fine. Me, I like to toast them up and spread on the cream cheese, it's soooo good on a cinnamon rainsin bagel! As for eating them un toasted once they have been frozen... maybe a few secs in the microwave, wrapped in a damp papertowel will do the trick, but you'll have to eat it fast before the aftereffects of microwaving take effect...ie, rubberry and hard!

[CaliPoutine]

OK, I'll take a stab at this. First of all, you ordered your bagels from Montreal, right?    Second, I have no idea what a bialy is, but I do know you can freeze bagels just fine. Me, I like to toast them up and spread on the cream cheese, it's soooo good on a cinnamon rainsin bagel! As for eating them un toasted once they have been frozen... maybe a few secs in the microwave, wrapped in a damp papertowel will do the trick, but you'll have to eat it fast before the aftereffects of microwaving take effect...ie, rubberry and hard!

←

Everytime I go back home to Ft. Lauderdale, I bring home a dozen bagels. I put them in ziplock freezer bags( uncut). They defrost( I take one out the night before I want one) and toast up fine, nothing like a fresh bagel, but better than anything around these parts.

[ckruse]

OK, I'll take a stab at this. First of all, you ordered your bagels from Montreal, right?    Second, I have no idea what a bialy is, but I do know you can freeze bagels just fine. Me, I like to toast them up and spread on the cream cheese, it's soooo good on a cinnamon rainsin bagel! As for eating them un toasted once they have been frozen... maybe a few secs in the microwave, wrapped in a damp papertowel will do the trick, but you'll have to eat it fast before the aftereffects of microwaving take effect...ie, rubberry and hard!

←

Everytime I go back home to Ft. Lauderdale, I bring home a dozen bagels. I put them in ziplock freezer bags( uncut). They defrost( I take one out the night before I want one) and toast up fine, nothing like a fresh bagel, but better than anything around these parts.

←

Hopefully you ordered them not only from Mtl, but from St Viateur st. as well. I find that it helps to have them in a paper bag inside a plastic bag. When it comes time to use them I microwave them fro about 5 secs and them slice them for toasting. Although not traditional Nuttella makes a fine schmear (sp). For those who dont know a bialy is a bagel without the whole.

[Fat Guy]

Once bagels are a day old, you pretty much have to toast them. The first few you eat, you should just toast without freezing -- in my experience a two-day-old never-frozen bagel toasts up slightly better than a frozen bagel. In terms of freezing the rest, my preferred method is to slice them in half before freezing, freeze in individual zipper bags with as much air squeezed out as possible, and toast directly from the freezer -- no defrosting or microwaving. They come out well. I mean, I live in New York City but always keep a few frozen bagels on hand for when I don't want to go out to buy fresh. I just had one this morning, with cream cheese. It was good. You'll actually have a harder time getting good cream cheese in most of America than you will have toasting a frozen bagel.

[Pam R]

First, I'll just point out that cinnamon raisin bagels aren't real bagels.

Then I'll agree with the general consensus that once you freeze them, you pretty much want to toast them. But they should still be good. Unlike Fat Guy, I freeze them whole - let them thaw just enough to cut through them and then toast and shmear on the cream cheese.

Edited December 19, 2006 by Pam R (log)