Stoves and Ovens: Wolf? Thermador? Bluestar? Viking?

[cfbuchanan]

I'm interested in people's experience using the 12" Gas Char-Grill on Viking Stoves. Does it work well? Is it worth the effort to clean up? Do you spend the extra bucks for the extra 12" and then never use it after the first time?

We are redesigning our kitchen ... and are at the decision point between 36" & 48" stove. We're planning to get the Griddle ... but the the Grill will probably tip the balance one way or the other.

[chezcherie]

those indoor grills almost inevitably end up gathering dust because they get used a couple times and then the clean-up gets to be too much of a pain. i occasionally demonstrate a (high end, unmentioned) brand of appliance, and can't tell you how many people regret getting the grill. (of course, we live in so. CA, where one can grill outdoors year-round.) i always encourage folks to go for maximum burner-age...you can always get a good quaility grill- and/or griddle-pan to span two burners when you need it, and the rest of the time, it's "burners for days"!

[vengroff]

you can always get a good quaility grill- and/or griddle-pan to span two burners when you need it, and the rest of the time, it's "burners for days"!

I totally agree. That's the way I went with my new kitchen. Unfortunately, right now it's still an empty room with wires sticking out of the drywall. We're approaching the 3 week point.

[Stone]

you can always get a good quaility grill- and/or griddle-pan to span two burners when you need it, and the rest of the time, it's "burners for days"!

I totally agree. That's the way I went with my new kitchen. Unfortunately, right now it's still an empty room with wires sticking out of the drywall. We're approaching the 3 week point.

Did you see that commercial where the kitchen contractor explains to the family: "First, we're going to come in, track mud and dirt all over your house, rip everything out of the kitchen, tear out all your windows and replace them with plastic sheets. Then we're going to disappear for three weeks. Don't even bother trying to call, because you wont be able to reach us. Next we'll show up ready to go, but with all the wrong appliances and without any tools. That will take weeks to fix, probably months. . . ."

[fifi]

I am getting the 48" GE Monogram and had the option of having 4 burners, grill and griddle. I just can't see grilling indoors. It just somehow seems "wrong". I also can't imagine the mess with an indoor grill. So I am going with 6 burners and the griddle. I am really looking forward to that griddle. I haven't had one for several years. They can't be beat for pancakes, corn cakes, quesadillas, grilled cheese (griddled cheese?), warming a bunch of tortillas, those crispy and lacey thingies where you sprinkle grated parmesan, and on and on. You can just do a whole bunch more of those things than I can in my beloved cast iron skillet.

[Toliver]

"...Then we're going to disappear for three weeks..."

Sadly, this happened to my brother during a recent remodel and it was more like 2 months instead of three weeks. In their contract, the contractor had agreed to complete the remodel job by a specific date. My brother had a list of minor things that still had to be done on the remodel and when the completion date came and went without a peep from the contractor, my brother called the contractor only to be told that he had "forgotten" all about my brother's remodel job!

My brother got the last laugh, though. He stilled owed a nice balance to the contractor due upon completion. But because the contractor didn't meet the completion date as per the contract, my brother didn't have to pay him another cent. He ended up negotiating with the contractor to finish what needed to be done and ended up having to pay only half of the remaining balance.

Needless to say, the contractor wasn't a happy camper with my brother.

[vengroff]

Sorry for taking this off topic. I made a new thread here.

[Kenk]

I have considered getting an indoor grill and it is clear that unless you are doing 20 steakes and burgers a day the clean up would be a pain.

The best would be a natural gas grill outside because up here in Ottawa Ontario Canada, where one can grill outdoors year-round, propane does not react that well to freezing temperatures.

You do not have to worry about a perfectly clean outdoor grill.

By the way in winter grilling and the temperatures are below -10, oven mits are to keep your hands warm.(mmmmm Indoor grilling....)

[Mr. Toast]

Friends have the Viking 48" range and they use the grill quite a bit. I've enjoyed the results on occasion and I definitely like it.

I'll have to say, though, that apparently they don't clean it very often and it usually looks pretty crappy. If your goal is to have a really beautiful kitchen you're probably better off without it unless you're willing to do a lot of cleaning.

[annachan]

After several years of looking to remodel the kitchen, it's finally time to get it started. One of the issues that concerns me the most is what gas range to get. I've asked around at the appliance stores and they haven't been the most helpful. Whenever I asked about the difference between the higher end stoves, they keep telling me that they're all good. How's that suppose to help me choose?

So, here are things I'm looking for and hopefully someone can give me some advice:

1) Prefer a stove that can handle a low simmer and getting a wok red hot.

2) Continuous grate (or some other option) that makes moving pots and pans to the different burners easily.

3) Easy clean up - maybe a tray that can be pulled out and wiped, etc.

4) Wok ring option would be fantastic.

What brand have you used that you like? What will my approximate cost be for a 30 or 36 inch?

Also, the kitchen is not very big, so I'm thinking a gas range with the oven (convection) on the bottom would be best. Any opinion/suggestions on that?

TIA

[Bombdog]

After several years of looking to remodel the kitchen, it's finally time to get it started. One of the issues that concerns me the most is what gas range to get. I've asked around at the appliance stores and they haven't been the most helpful. Whenever I asked about the difference between the higher end stoves, they keep telling me that they're all good. How's that suppose to help me choose?

So, here are things I'm looking for and hopefully someone can give me some advice:

1) Prefer a stove that can handle a low simmer and getting a wok red hot.

2) Continuous grate (or some other option) that makes moving pots and pans to the different burners easily.

3) Easy clean up - maybe a tray that can be pulled out and wiped, etc.

4) Wok ring option would be fantastic.

What brand have you used that you like? What will my approximate cost be for a 30 or 36 inch?

Also, the kitchen is not very big, so I'm thinking a gas range with the oven (convection) on the bottom would be best. Any opinion/suggestions on that?

TIA 

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Ah, boy can I weigh in on this one. I JUST replaced and electric drop in range with a new DCS 6 burner gas. I did considerable research before this purchase and am pretty confident that the DCS was the best for me.

The DCS has a wok ring as an available option, and a 17.5k btu, they are the largest residential burner outputs on the market.

The eyes are a sort of 2 stage thing. They claim that when you are simmering only one stage is operational, which makes that very low simmer possible. I made a huge pot of chicken stock last weekend and the simmer worked great for me.

The grates are continuous from front to back for 2 burners, but not side to side. Still, the grates are touching side to side, so you get the same effect.

Although the oven is gas, not electric, it does come standard with a convection fan.

For a 36 inch, 6 burner, you are looking at over 5K for the price.

I've had this new range for about 2 weeks now. Previous to the electric range from hell, I cooked on Wolf commercial ranges over more than 10 years and two houses. This isn't a commercial Wolf, but I'm EXTREMELY happy with it.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Wow -- you're where I was, last year! Without the snooze-inducing background, here's what I found:

I picked a 60" Viking, all-gas range; it's got more BTUs than Wolf, and while I've had Thermadors my last two kitchens, I just like the Vikings better. I really liked the BlueStar ranges -- they're flush with regular cabinet-depths, and get nice and hot -- but servicing around here is difficult.

I'd asked for the Viking range to be fitted with a 22,500 BTU burner, but Viking said they couldn't do it on the range itself; it would have to be a separate unit. There's also the ventilation to think about -- if you go with a higher-BTU range, you'll probably have to have overhead ventilation, the heavy-duty kind.

My setup is (from the left) four burners, one flat-top, one grill, and then two burners. The Thermadors all had four burners and a grill, which I used all the time.

Oooh, have fun! I planned this kitchen with a big, purple Viking stove in mind, but I think I'll keep it to a less-flashy color.

[scubadoo97]

This is my set up. I don't have a range but I did look into several brands of range tops and vents. I ended up with the Viking range top and hood. I was dead set against Viking from things read on gardenweb. I ruled Thermador out because their simmer uses and on/off method that results in a click sound every minute. The Wolf had different outputs on different burner and I wanted them to all be the same so I didn't have to worry about what goes where. I had an electric range before and love the gas. I had to go with LP gas. I truly think my electric burners were hotter. If I had it to do over again I'd look at the Blue Star which is hotter. 15,000 BTUs/burner just aren't hot enough. Example; When I have a large pot of water boiling and add vegetables it takes too long to get back to a boil. That didn't happen on my old electric burner. All the burners on the Viking can go from Hi to Simmer with continuous adjustment. I wish it was easier to get a very low simmer. You have to barely tap the knob to try to get it to that just barley on level.

I picked a hood that was wider and deeper than the range top to allow better capture of smoke.

Edited to add-If I had it to do over again I would also go with an external or remote blower for the hood. Too much noise when the hood kicked up.

Edited November 4, 2006 by scubadoo97 (log)

[tommy]

the iVillage GardenWeb Appliances forum is an insanely good discussion group for appliances. it's a bit hard to navigate, but they have a good search feature. and everyone seems very knowledgeable and eager to help. after spending days on it, i opted for Jade.

[johnder]

I picked a 60" Viking, all-gas range; it's got more BTUs than Wolf, and while I've had Thermadors my last two kitchens, I just like the Vikings better.  I really liked the BlueStar ranges -- they're flush with regular cabinet-depths, and get nice and hot -- but servicing around here is difficult.

←

I thought the Viking stoves had 15k BTU vs. the Wolf which has 16k. At least that was the case when I did the research last year.

[*Deborah*]

I have a Wolf 48 in. (6 burners and a grill). I got the S-grates. There is a wok option, and the simmer is sweet (500 BTU I think? v low). I think it maxes at 15K BTUs at the top end so not as hot as some others, but fine for my purposes. My convection oven is the bee's knees, I am extremely happy with it. My second (smaller) oven runs cool but that's not a big deal.

Here is the range:

And a closeup of the S-grates, which I love.

Edited for photo codes.

Edited November 4, 2006 by *Deborah* (log)

[FabulousFoodBabe]

I thought the Viking stoves had 15k BTU vs. the Wolf which has 16k.  At least that was the case when I did the research last year.

←

The issue is propane,I think; Viking told me that propane runs a little less hot in their stoves, so to expect less.

But I have bigger things to worry about: we are literally ready to go to construction, once the cabinet issue is settled, and ... "someone" just figured out that the 60" range ovens won't be big enough to fit a sheet pan (18 x 26). AUGH! THIS is what happens when a right brainer tries to figure something out ... I have literally been saying to myself, "60" = 3'; 3' is two 36" ovens."

I have no excuse. None. And I cannot believe I did this! (Thank God the thing hasn't been ordered yet ...)

Quelle knucklehead, eh?

Deborah, your range is gorgeous! Just beautiful.

Edited November 4, 2006 by FabulousFoodBabe (log)

[Marya]

"So, here are things I'm looking for and hopefully someone can give me some advice:

1) Prefer a stove that can handle a low simmer and getting a wok red hot.

2) Continuous grate (or some other option) that makes moving pots and pans to the different burners easily.

3) Easy clean up - maybe a tray that can be pulled out and wiped, etc.

4) Wok ring option would be fantastic."

I went with a BlueStar for all the same reasons.

1. It has a 350 BTU simmer burner(one of the lowest in the industry).

2. The movement of pots is very easy from grate to grate, at least front to back (the other two burners are at the opposite end with grill and griddle in between.)

3. It has easy to clean open burners and two pull out trays.

4. It does not need a wok ring. You simply flip over one of two 22,000BTU burner grates and the wok recesses into the open fire creating a lot of heat to stir-fry.

5. The burners are the same ones that Garland used for their now defunct semi-pro ranges. They are pretty awesome.

[C. sapidus]

We also chose Blue Star, in our case a 36-inch cooktop rather than a range. After nearly a year, we are absolutely delighted. As Marya points out, Blue Star has dedicated burners that go very high and very low. Even the regular burners have no problem melting chocolate without a double boiler or steaming rice.

Fabulous FB makes a good point: sales and service are spotty in some areas of the country, so do enquire. Also, make sure your vent hood will handle the high-powered burners. Even with a 600-CFM Vent-a-Hood, I occasionally drive everyone out of the kitchen with capsaicin fumes.

Prizer-Painter (Blue Star manufacturer)

David Rosengarten article comparing Blue Star, Viking, Jade, and DCS.

And for the truly obsessed, the archive of all Blue Star threads on GardenWeb.

I’ve posted this before, but this is our setup.

[Marya]

I neglected to mention that my rangetop is fueled with propane and the unit came propane-ready from the plant, thus giving me the full 22,000btu's and no loss in power. And as C.sapidus mentioned, a powerful hood is a must. I have a 900cfm Vent-a-hood that's 54"x27". The three extra inches all around allow for smoke-free grilling and wok cooking.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

I neglected to mention that my rangetop is fueled with propane and the unit came propane-ready from the plant, thus giving me the full 22,000btu's and no loss in power.  And as C.sapidus mentioned, a powerful hood is a must.  I have a 900cfm Vent-a-hood that's 54"x27".  The three extra inches all around allow for smoke-free grilling and wok cooking.

←

this is very interesting; the Vikings come with a propane conversion kit. The cooktop we had installed when we bought the house runs a lot cooler with the conversion, too.

Excellent news: BlueStar has a 60" range; both ovens hold the sheet pans! Service could be an issue, yes, but maybe not. We'll see.

[Bill/SFNM]

1) Prefer a stove that can handle a low simmer and getting a wok red hot.

...

4) Wok ring option would be fantastic.

←

Sometimes, an object which does everything does none of them very well. High-heat wok-cooking was so important to me that it was distorting the whole selection process. After a great deal of research, I decided that a red-hot wok was best relegated to outdoors: much higher heat and less mess inside.

Indoors, I have a 36" dual-fuel Wolf range - great burner control,self cleaning oven with a "stone" mode for baking bread.

Outdoors, I have a 60,000+BTU wok burner that I can also use for deep frying, lobster steaming, and other messy tasks such as browning meat for braises. This burner cost me $60 (the wok was $9) and produces results that I doubt I could ever achieve on an inside burner:

Bill/SFNM

Edited November 5, 2006 by Bill/SFNM (log)

[scubadoo97]

I neglected to mention that my rangetop is fueled with propane and the unit came propane-ready from the plant, thus giving me the full 22,000btu's and no loss in power.  And as C.sapidus mentioned, a powerful hood is a must.  I have a 900cfm Vent-a-hood that's 54"x27".  The three extra inches all around allow for smoke-free grilling and wok cooking.

←

To my knowlege you will always get a drop in BTUs with propane

[Soupcon]

I have just installed a blue star 36" cooktop and I am in love . Although there is only one dealer in Canada I know of (in Montreal) gas ranges should not need much servicing if any IMHO.

As Marya says, you just take out the grate of the high output front burner and most decent sized woks will sit nicely in the hole just above the burner. I have in the past week cooked some of my best stir fries ever on this burner. And the simmer burner kept a 2 qt saucepan at a real simmer with no tweaking of the flame.

[*Deborah*]

Deborah, your range is gorgeous!  Just beautiful.

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Cheers! I still cannot believe it sometimes, and look at it agape...it even looks good when it's all grubby.