Toysan Foods

[hzrt8w]

A question from wesza in this post.

I have a friend who operates a Restaurant in Seattle from Toysan who is interested in making a special menu featuring Toysan Dishes, he needs some recommendations of items that will appeal to his regular customers as well as those from the Toysan Community. His Restaurant is located in a more upscale area then the International District so draws less Chinese customers, but many foodies. Appetizers, Snacks, Entrees ?

Any suggestions?

[hzrt8w]

I am not from Toysan but my wife and her family are. I found that Toysanese dishes do not seem to be that different from Hong Kong/Guangzhou (old name Canton) cooking. I found that the "comfort food" examples that are not offered too often in restaurants are:

- Steamed pork with salted fish, mui choy

- Steamed egg custard with dried shrimp, thousand year eggs/salted eggs

- Stir-fried gai lan (Chinese broccoli) with lap cheung slices (Chinese sausages)

I am sure Ben and Dejah, et al can think of many other dishes.

[sheetz]

Hehe, I guess I have trouble putting "upscale" and "Toisan" in the same sentence since Toisan, at least way back when my parents lived there, was an impoverished region. I mean, that's why everyone left there to go settle in other places around the world!

I don't know if this dish is typically Toisan, but I know some Toisanese who like to eat glutinous rice flour balls in a daikon radish soup.

Toisanese food is basically just a more rustic version of Cantonese, so I don't know if it will appeal to a largely non-Chinese clientele.

Edited December 10, 2005 by sheetz (log)

[Ben Hong]

"Upscale"? " Toysan"? I love it...a classic oxymoron Question is, which is the ox and which is the moron

[Pan]

[...]

- Stir-fried gai lan (Chinese broccoli) with lap cheung slices (Chinese sausages)

[...]

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Great dish! But more or less as others are saying on this thread, I've never had it in an "upscale" place.

[I_call_the_duck]

I don't know if this is Toisanese, but in addition to what Ah Leung mentioned, we used to have spinach or string beans with fu yu (fermented bean curd), long beans with black bean sauce (sometimes pork mixed in), sauteed bok choy, boiled chicken. Pretty much what is in Ah Leung's pictorials.

Sheetz is right though. I've never seen Toysan food offered in restaurants. In fact, when I once requested something like yook beng at a family dinner in a restaurant, my mom said that the waiters would laugh for asking for such a dish. Why would anyone want to order yook beng in a restaurant? Then again, if Tuscan food (which is also peasant food) can be popular in restaurants, why not Toysan?

[Dejah]

If you incorporate "presentation/plating" with Toysan dishes, it would work on a restaurant menu.

Individual small pork patties, resting on thinly sliced finger of fresh ginger, topped with crisscross slivers of gourmet ham yu, finished with a sprinkle of deep fried ginger julienne, shredded scallions, and hot oil.

Ta Dah!!! $18.99

I've mentioned this before, but I did enjoy gnow yook beng with mui choi, chili peppers and mint in a restaurant in Durham, England. This was not a hole in the wall type of place. It was the first time I had mint in a Chinese dish...now a favourite way of making gnow yook beng and mui choi.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Dejah (log)

[sheetz]

If you incorporate "presentation/plating" with Toysan dishes, it would work on a restaurant menu. 

Individual small pork patties, resting on thinly sliced finger of fresh ginger, topped with crisscross slivers of gourmet ham yu, finished with a sprinkle of deep fried ginger julienne, shredded scallions, and hot oil.

Ta Dah!!! $18.99   

I think you may be on to something! How about this one: Savory Duck Egg Flan with Sun Dried Baby Prawns and Imperial Yolks for $15.99.

[wesza]

A question from wesza in this post.

I have a friend who operates a Restaurant in Seattle from Toysan who is interested in making a special menu featuring Toysan Dishes, he needs some recommendations of items that will appeal to his regular customers as well as those from the Toysan Community. His Restaurant is located in a more upscale area then the International District so draws less Chinese customers, but many foodies. Appetizers, Snacks, Entrees ?

Any suggestions?

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Ah Leung:

This may be the best venue for my original question to Ben Hong, that you for making it topic specific.

My rationale for feeling that this was a appropriate subject was that after spending as much time as I have in Hong Kong, plus tracing extensively the most popular Restaurant Dishes being served either by Hawkers, Tai Pai Tungs, Noodle/Congee Restaurants, Malay/Eoro/Chinglish thru a grant to the University of Hong Kong it became apparent that "Toysan Foods" were the most popular foods being served everywhere in the then Crown Colony.

What construed "Cantonese Cuisine" was mostly dishes that had evolved based upon the reality that the great majority of well established Chef's, Restaurant Workers and Immigrants were mostly from Toysan. There were few Peking, Shanghai or Northern Restaurants except for Hakka, Chiu Chow and Szechwan places located in specific neighborhoods.

The majority of Fresh Vegetables, Salted Fishes, Condiments, Live Seafood, Shellfish, Crabs and Oysters available were mostly imported from Toysan except higher priced seasonal specialties.

Many Cantonese Restaurants menus, especially Party, Banquet, Weddings or Maj Jong[most popular], night supper, breakfast, Live Seafood Restaurants were essentially adaptations of Toysan Dishes being prepared Hong Kong Cantonese Style.

As a good example the Yum Cha, Dum Sim services were evolved by the ingredients, flavors, items, varieties based upon Toysan Snacks, Street Foods the large selections were not known or available anywhere in China. Even the variety available from all the special "Roasters", such as Whole Pig, Char Sui, Rice Birds, Entrails and almost anything that can be Roasted, Braised or Chopped was being done by Hong Kong Toysan Roasters and still is at most major American and Canadian Cities.

I feel that this has evolved everywhere in Canada, and the States but it's still evolving by the skills of 3rd thru 6th Generation Toysan Chefs.

Remember this began proliferating only since the end of World War 2 when Hong Kong was still a small town. I remember in the 1960's when most locals in Hong Kong were able to tell where the greenhorns came from just by their Village Dialects. By the mid 1970's everyone spoke Hong Kong Cantonese including the local Shanghai or Peking arrivals.

I feel that it's about time credit should be attributed to where it began from since I feel in Chinese Cuisine the World follows Hong Kong, while Hong Kong follows Toysan.

In my estimation about Asian Food in General: Tai Pai Tungs Rule, since they are the quickest to improvise, the better they perform, are rewarded by opening new Restaurants and act as a apprentices for future skilled Restaurant workers. Look at Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia

Since this "TOPIC" has moved into this new place I'm curious about what other eGulleters have about my thoughts and feelings about this subject. Ever since we did this study in Hong Kong I have felt this information should become more available. I remember when some of Hong Kongs Chef's were convinced by $$$$ that they would be welcomed to staff and start Restaurants everywhere in China especially in Canton and Shanghai.

Irwin

[Ben Hong]

[

I feel that it's about time credit should be attributed to where it began from since I feel in Chinese Cuisine the World follows Hong Kong, while Hong Kong follows Toysan.

Irwin

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[Ben Hong]

One menu item that is almost a "must' as an autumn Toysan dish: "Gow yook mun fujook".

[wesza]

[

I feel that it's about time credit should be attributed to where it began from since I feel in Chinese Cuisine the World follows Hong Kong, while Hong Kong follows Toysan.

Irwin

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Irwin, what a great post. Thanks.

I remember my grand father and great uncles havin endless discussions about HK when I was a child.The topic was about their connections and all those emigre's from Toysan who were there. The period they were discussing was the '30s . (These Gentlemen had a plan/offer to buy a large chunk of swampland in Kowloon for a virtual pittance. That acreage became Tsimsatsui. )

The post war years, the turmoil of civil war and the Mao takeover, induced many more folk from Toysan to make the exodus to HK. That exodus continued , by hook or by crook, slowed, but unstopped right up to 1997. A lot of the new arrivals survived by building a kerosene burner out of a large tin container and served food wherever they can find a spot on the street. Some of these same food peddlers became "dai pai dong", while others went "inside" and became the stout force helping to drive the remarkable economic growth of HK.

I have been privileged to be friends with a few so-called HK tycoons of Toysan heritage. To a man, each and everyone pointed backwards with pride that they are of Toysan stock.

Why am I going historical? I do that just to reinforce your point about HK following the Toysanese . You see, most of the fancy HK dining emporiums serve food that is, at it's base, very familiar to us Toysan folk.

Oh, if anyone gets the chance, go to HoySeng city (Taicheng), the main city of Toysan and get "grounded" in the food. Besides all the "exotics" one could get there, you will find foods and dishes that most times you will rcall in a different setting. I once ate 7 salt-baked eggs purchased from a lady who was like my Eldest Aunt in a lot of ways. How could I resist buying a dozen, even if I gave 5 back to her???

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[BCinBC]

ICTD: I can recall having yook beng in a restaurant when I was a kid, though that may have been a special request to the kitchen during the period when that was my favourite food (yook beng with lap cheng and water chestnuts).

More recently, because of Ben's Toysan thread actually, I made a request to my Mom for ham yu yook beng. She is a part owner of a restaurant in Victoria (BC). She got quite excited, but at the last minute scrapped the plan because she didn't want to stink up the place. How disappointing.

Dejah: what exactly is "gourmet ham yu"? Like ham yu made from halibut or salmon? Salt cured halibut cheeks - hey I hereby call intellectual property rights on this! Willing to license it out, though.

[Dejah]

More recently, because of Ben's Toysan thread actually, I made a request to my Mom for ham yu yook beng. She is a part owner of a restaurant in Victoria (BC). She got quite excited, but at the last minute scrapped the plan because she didn't want to stink up the place. How disappointing.

Dejah: what exactly is "gourmet ham yu"? Like ham yu made from halibut or salmon? Salt cured halibut cheeks - hey I hereby call intellectual property rights on this! Willing to license it out, though.

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BC: Tell your Mom to put Saran Wrap over the dish of ham yu while it is steaming.

That would contain the aroma There should be enough ventilation in the restaurant kitchen to take care of any that might escape.

I know it never infiltrated my dining rooms whenever my cooks made ham yu tow and tofu soup...made sure the pot was over the exhaust system!

The "gourmet ham yu" was tongue in cheek...BUT! Maybe there is such a specialty...

[hzrt8w]

One menu item that is almost a "must' as an autumn Toysan dish: "Gow yook mun fujook".   

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Do you really mean that Ben? Where do you source the "Gow Yook" (dog meat)?

[wesza]

One menu item that is almost a "must' as an autumn Toysan dish: "Gow yook mun fujook".   

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Do you really mean that Ben? Where do you source the "Gow Yook" (dog meat)?

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In Hong Kong it's at the night market stall's in Causeway Bay, In Kowloon its at specific places on Temple Street and off Shanghai Street, In Korea, the Phillipines or Singapore it often available at many more locations.

I've eaten it without being told about what was being served in Hong Kong and thought it was gamy. In the Phillipines there are Dogs specially breed for food for hundreds of years.

The Hong Kong Chinese find that when it's eaten any where with out a winter season very strange as they seem to only eat it during the start of the colder weather supposedly for health reasons. I have only seen it prepared in Clay Pots.

Irwin

[Dejah]

One menu item that is almost a "must' as an autumn Toysan dish: "Gow yook mun fujook".   

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Do you really mean that Ben? Where do you source the "Gow Yook" (dog meat)?

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The Hong Kong Chinese find that when it's eaten any where with out a winter season very strange as they seem to only eat it during the start of the colder weather supposedly for health reasons. I have only seen it prepared in Clay Pots.

Irwin

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I was told by my Korean and Chinese students that "gow yook" dishes stoke your internal furnace: keeps you warm in cold damp winters. I don't hear of many women eating this dish, so I am thinking that it's a different "internal stove" they are stoking!

Somehow, saying "gow yook" doesn't make my dog Atticus wince like "dog meat" does.

[Dejah]

I bought a big chunk of wintermelon yesterday. In warmer weather, or when I am in a hurry (read lazy) I make a light soup with just pork bones, a piece of ham choi and sliced melon.

In this colder weather, I will make a wintery soup with pork, rehydrated dried oysters, ginger and chun pei. The wintermelon will be cut into large chunks with the peel left on. This is supposedly good for "hui fong".

I have also saved the heads of 2 ham yeu...saving those for soup with tofu, ginger, chun pei and green onions for "o- fow".

Hmm, a thread for medicinal soups.

[I_call_the_duck]

I’ve never had gow yook. I don't think I'd mind if I wasn't told, but for the moment, I can't separate the distinction between a pet and my dinner. Then again, I love squab, which are a different breed than those street pigeons.

Irwin, are the gows in HK also bred for eating or are they your “let’s pick one up at the ASPCA" type? Benji? Lassie? Old Yeller?

ICTD: I can recall having yook beng in a restaurant when I was a kid, though that may have been a special request to the kitchen during the period when that was my favourite food (yook beng with lap cheng and water chestnuts).

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BC, you’re lucky. I think I also asked my mom to order hom ha gee yook once in a restaurant. No go.

[Ben Hong]

Hmmm, I'm thinking that gow yook is a truly international meat and would be great prepared in the "national' specialties of their origins....

Irish (setter) stew, French (poodle) boudin, Chinese chow (chow) mein, Boston (bull) baked beans, Bisque de Bichon frisee, Staffordshire terroir, Brittany spaniel flan, Viszla vienerschnitzel.....

In Hong Kong if you really, really want K-9, the secret words are 6,3 or 3,6

Edited December 14, 2005 by Ben Hong (log)

[wesza]

Hmmm, I'm thinking that gow yook is a truly international meat and would be great prepared in the "national' specialties of their origins....

Irish (setter) stew, French (poodle) boudin, Chinese chow (chow) mein, Boston (bull) baked beans,  Bisque de Bichon frisee, Staffordshire terroir, Brittany spaniel flan, Viszla vienerschnitzel.....

In Hong Kong if you really, really  want K-9, the secret words are 6,3 or 3,6

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Ben:

Before going upscale with these exotic varieties take into consideration that every place that sells this dish claims it's young black "Chows".

I was also going to post something unusual for me: I feel that regarding the eating of "Dog" it should be attributed to being a authentic treat originating in, "Canton".

It wouldn't be fair to allow the innocent folks from Toysan to receive all the credit for such cultural foods. Oyster Sauce from the Pearl River is known thruout China as being the best, Stinky Tofu is the pre-eminent Toysan Dish delivered by Peddlers everywhere in Hong Kong by it's aromatic presence after being immersed in Hot Oil that it had arrived in the neighborhood.

It's only fair that you all let Canton take the credit for going to the Dog's.

The type breed in the Philippines for consumption is also popular as a pet, it looks like a short haired, beige colored terrier mix. In Hawaii when the weather cools [65 degrees ?] people are inclined to become protective of their puppies and small dogs especially dark colored pets. The Koreans blame the Chinese. The Filipino's blame the Chinese. The Chinese in Hawaii don't care as long as they don't serve it at McDonald's. It's true on the Islands it's everyone favorite place.

But then again I remember visiting a Zoo with Chinese friends who were more interested about how each animal would taste then anything else, now I am wondering if those exotic selections mentioned in someones post were on their "shopping cart", as part of a must try list ?

Irwin :

[sheetz]

But then again I remember visiting a Zoo with Chinese friends who were more interested about how each animal would taste then anything else, now I am wondering if those exotic selections mentioned in someones post were on their "shopping cart", as part of a must try list ?

Wait, you mean other people don't do this?

You should have seen my mom salivating when we went on a visit to the aquarium.

[wesza]

I was talking on the phone this morning with a Chinese Associate (Toysan) who is now in Hong Kong and mentioned about this thread on eGullet.

He reiterated about what we had learned in our original research project about the origins of several very popular Chinese dishes being served all over the world that were Toysan in origin but being attributed to Cantonese Food.

"Won Ton" (yun tun) made in the way they are now customarily being served everywhere at Noodle/Congee Shops were first made in Hong Kong after the second world war by Toysan Hawkers who added shrimp to the customary pork mixture being used traditionally. They were individually wrapped in a thinner dough being made by several Toysan owned Noodle Shops located in the Tai Po area of Hong Kong. One is still in business over 60 years, "Ping Kee Noodle Maker" still owned and operated by the original family. They also advised that the Sui Kow Dumpling was being made with again added shrimp, mushrooms in a thinner dough that originated in Hong Kong. The most popular Broth utilized in serving Won Tons, Sui Kow and Noodles also took advantage in it's preparation that there was a abundance of Shrimp Shells available to enhance the broths flavor.

These items were being sold by Hawkers who became established in small shops and restaurants located in or near to the resettlement estates being built in Hong Kong.

The original "Hawker" item sold in Hong Kong was "Glutinous Rice Dumplings" made with whatever was low priced and available in the markets and peddled everywhere in Hong Kong known as "Zhenzhui Ji".

During this same period a much thicker rice gruel became very popular, being offered along the waterfront being made from Pork Back and Neck Bones very popular as breakfast, snacks and always available to the Longshore Men, Seamen and Commuters using Walla Walla's or the Ferries.

This rice gruel evolved into what's being now sold as "Congee" or "Juk" very different (thicker and richer) then that served anywhere else in China.

By the 1950's there were already 100's of Noodle/Congee places serving various combinations of these item's together with Vegetables in Oyster Sauce, Steamed Kidney's, Pork Liver and Glutinous Rice Dumplings all being owned and operated by Toysan people, still offering almost the same menus till today.

Now I need to find out about the Fried Bread also served, in Noodle Shops and Pho places origin.

Some items or recipes would be appreciated to add to this thread.

Irwin

[hzrt8w]

Dejah: what exactly is "gourmet ham yu"? Like ham yu made from halibut or salmon? Salt cured halibut cheeks - hey I hereby call intellectual property rights on this! Willing to license it out, though.

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BC: If you follow some of the older posts, "gourmet" means "rotten".

[Ben Hong]

Irwin, again thanks for your slice of cultural history.

As a 6 year old spending 4 long months of 1949 in HK awaiting passage to Canada, I remember with a child's vivid memory the sights, sounds, smells and tastes of Kowloon. Living on one of the busier streets of Kowloon at the time, Shanghai St., our senses were literally assault every waking moment...the wet markets where the police raids led by the "Red Haired Devils" who mercilessly beat little old ladies trying to peddle a few vegetables without a "license", the crowds of poor beggars at the railroad station and the ferry terminals, the gala hubbub Chinese New Year's, the boat people (dangka) whose little children always wore a gourd on their backs, the crowded conditions caused by such a huge flood of refugees from the mainland, so bad that "bed spaces" rented for a king's ransom, the nauseating tar and diesel fumes that turned the stomach of this little country bumpkin, all contributing to the uncertainty and the dread of a very uncertain future for a young boy whose Mother was advised to save his life by letting a relative's family take him to Canada.

In this state of turmoil, money was very scarce and the "aunt" had to, as a necessity, husband her resources with extreme vigilance. A few wilted veggies, and some scraps of meat and fish from the end of the day at the wet markets were the regular fare for two meals of the day, stuff that we used to feed the pigs back home in the village. This kind of hardship was compounded by the fact that the water supply from the mainland was interrupted every other day. Carrying a pail of water that weighed almost as much as I did up four flights of stairs was not a favourite memory.

The happiest few weeks of my young life at the time was the period where a favourite older cousin came out of China on his way to Canada with his mother and stayed in HK for about 4 weeks awaiting passage. Their financial situation seemed a lot less tense, and for almost every day of those four weeks, he took me on his explorations of HK. It was during this time that I really discovered my stomach and taste buds, for together we had sampled almost everything that the dai pai dongs and street hawkers had to offer. I remember some of the treats that he bought for us; hot sand roasted chestnuts, chunks of beef flank(gnow nam), jook and fried devils, soupy noodles and of course the wontons and sui gow.

A favorite aural memory is the sound that the wonton hawkers' noise makers made. These noisemakers were made of a couple of bamboo sticks and were the exclusive calling card of the wonton hawkers. Each night after nightfall, when general businesses closed for the day, the hawkers would open for business. Most would be calling out their wares, but the wonton hawker always used his noise maker, clapping them together to make a sound which the Chinese, who love the play of words, would punningly say that it sounded like "barely cooked". Gin-sook, gin-sook, gin-sook.... Wontons were said to be the favourite snack of gamblers and whores, so my Aunt said.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Ben Hong (log)