Ordered My Pork Pinkish (medium rare)

[weinoo]

Strange experience last night at Schiller's. I ordered the pork chops medium rare. My waiter came back a few minutes later and explained that the chef would not cook them that way - they had to be well done.

Well, I've been dining at Schiller's since the week it opened and have never had that told to me, whihc I explained to said waiter to no avail.

Is anyone aware of an NYC crackdown on pork being served rarish, or was Schiller's just being newly over-cautious?

[coquus]

Well, while what you describe is technically medium for pork, many people pass it off as medium rare. I also would like to know the answer. I have cooked alot of pork in my day, and would say I try for pinkish unless someone orders it medium well or well. I myself understand what people are shooting for when they order their pork medium rare, medium, and just shut up and cook it that way, maybe I am wrong. Maybe you're definition of pinkish is different than mine, let's find the right page shall we.

[Artichoke]

Strange experience last night at Schiller's. I ordered the pork chops medium rare.  My waiter came back a few minutes later and explained that the chef would not cook them that way - they had to be well done. 

Well, I've been dining at Schiller's since the week it opened and have never had that told to me, whihc I explained to said waiter to no avail.

Is anyone aware of an NYC crackdown on pork being served rarish, or was Schiller's just being newly over-cautious?

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Go Ouest young man. Tom Valenti's Ouest restaurant (2315 Broadway) does a spectacular, simply grilled, double rib pork chop, and everytime I order it, I ask for it medium rare and medium rare it comes. Juicy, porky, and delicious, a tough choice at times between that and the braised pork shank. Landmarc also does a fantastic grilled pork chop (with sautteed spinach, caramalized onions and apples) and no waiter there has ever turned down my request to have it medium rare.

[grill-it]

I always thought it was an old wives' tale that pork had to be served well done. Personally, I avoid "over-cooking" the meat, especially with grilled pork chops. Pink is just fine in my books.

[Megan Blocker]

I always thought it was an old wives' tale that pork had to be served well done. Personally, I avoid "over-cooking" the meat, especially with grilled pork chops. Pink is just fine in my books.

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My mother and I made a gorgeous crown roast last year for Christmas from a fabulous recipe in the Gourmet Cookbook. It came out just a bit pink the center, crispy and crusty on the outside, and soooo flavorful.

My mother's husband proceeded to cut himself a two-rib portion and MICROWAVE it until it was gray and mealy.

I have so little respect for people who claim to like meat and then dessicate it like that.

That said, I have not experienced anything similar to weinoo's time at Schiller's...could this be the next crack-down, post sous-vide?

Edited June 30, 2006 by Megan Blocker (log)

[cdh]

Well, the trichina worms that used to be pervasive in pigs were the cause for the recommendation to incinerate pork to a well done state... While overcooked meat is unpleasant, parasites that worm into muscle tissue and form hard nodules would appear to be even less so. So it may be appropriate to hold the derision for those who prefer not to take that particular chance...

It is my understanding that modern pork raising techniques have all but eliminated them...

Who knows, however, maybe the worms have returned? Or have become a part of the organic pig experience again?

Edited June 29, 2006 by cdh (log)

[JohnL]

I always thought it was an old wives' tale that pork had to be served well done. Personally, I avoid "over-cooking" the meat, especially with grilled pork chops. Pink is just fine in my books.

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No wives tale.

At one time--meats (pork singled out) carried a nasty organism/parasite that

if ingested is potentially fatal. trichinellosis.

The organism can not survive temperatures over 150 degrees F. (or freezing meat for ten days)

The most recent cases 1997-01 (total 72) are attributed to eating undercooked wild game.

Modern techniques in raising pigs (and other livestock) have made this disease

relatively rare.

While most health departments still "recommend" minimal temperature levels--most industry

professionals (chefs etc) are comfortable with preparing and serving pork at less than the

"recommended" temperatures.

I always go with the chefs!

cdc info

[raxelita]

But weinoo, you say you've ordered the Pork medium rare or pink before and Schillers accomodated you? The sudden change would seem rather bewildering-- perhaps a new Sous?

[russ parsons]

i really don't think trichinosis is a threat anymore. but i also disagree with what seems to me to be a modern fad for under-cooked pork. sure, it should have a pink glisten, but i've seen recipes calling for pork cooked to 140 to 145. Below about 150 to 155, pork has a metallic taste that is unpleasant to me (technically, this is called "serum-y". hit it at 150 to 155, take the 5 to 10-degree push and the meat will be moist and sweet ... and slightly pink though not medium-rare by beef standards.

edit: this reminded me of a funny story. i had just finished "french fry" and was still deeply immersed in meat temperature. i went out to eat with a friend and, for the first time i can recall, the waiter asked me how i wanted my pork done. i was so flummoxed i said "oh, about 155 with a 5-degree push." it wasn't until i looked at my dining companion's face that i realized i had definitely gone over to the dark side of food geekery.

Edited June 29, 2006 by russ parsons (log)

[adegiulio]

i really don't think trichinosis is a threat anymore. but i also disagree with what seems to me to be a modern fad for under-cooked pork. sure, it should have a pink glisten, but i've seen recipes calling for pork cooked to 140 to 145. Below about 150 to 155, pork has a metallic taste that is unpleasant to me (technically, this is called "serum-y". hit it at 150 to 155, take the 5 to 10-degree push and the meat will be moist and sweet ... and slightly pink though not medium-rare by beef standards.

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I agree with you 100% Not only will the meat taste better, but it is more tender and juicy at the right temp. Medium rare beef is definately juicier and more tender than rare. Medium rare pork (and even worse, chicken) have a very unpalatable texture (in my opinion).

[freshherbs]

I actually worked on the "Pork. The Other White Meat" campaign back in the day. As a result I spent way too much time with the National Pork Producers Council and even was a BBQ taster at the National Pork Show (a thread for another time).

Needless to say, the NPPC even reco's cooking to medium rare...that is, when the juices run clear or 150-155.

[adegiulio]

I actually worked on the "Pork. The Other White Meat" campaign back in the day.  As a result I spent way too much time with the National Pork Producers Council and even was a BBQ taster at the National Pork Show (a thread for another time).

Needless to say, the NPPC even reco's cooking to medium rare...that is, when the juices run clear or 150-155.

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I would call that medium...

[weinoo]

But weinoo, you say you've ordered the Pork medium rare or pink before and  Schillers accomodated you?  The sudden change would seem rather bewildering-- perhaps a new Sous?

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That's what I was thinking...as I definitely like my pork cooked to the medium side or as Russ says, with a "pink glisten." Unless I'm cooking a cut like the butt, which can go up to 175-180 and still remain juicy.

I didn't think the kitchen would take it to mean medium rare like a steak.

Either way, I ended up with the steak frites, medium rare!

[coquus]

But weinoo, you say you've ordered the Pork medium rare or pink before and  Schillers accomodated you?  The sudden change would seem rather bewildering-- perhaps a new Sous?

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That's what I was thinking...as I definitely like my pork cooked to the medium side or as Russ says, with a "pink glisten." Unless I'm cooking a cut like the butt, which can go up to 175-180 and still remain juicy.

I didn't think the kitchen would take it to mean medium rare like a steak.

Either way, I ended up with the steak frites, medium rare!

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Probably a good call on your part. The more I think about it, the more I would keep on ordering it medium rare wherever you go. Don't go with rare however, that would surely raise some red flags. Another thing, actually the butts I've cooked ideally go up even higher 190ish to melt all the collagen, but then again I don't do that too often.

[MichaelZ]

It is important to remember that, if you want to eat 150 to 155 degree pork, pull it out of the oven/broiler/etc when it registers 145 on the thermometer. As you let it rest for 5 to 10 minutes (essential for the best eating experience), the temp will rise into your "comfort zone".

[Artichoke]

I am sure that the statistic is out there somewhere, but I would be very curious to know how many food borne illnesses are attributed each year to poorly washed vegetables containing something like E. coli versus trichina worms in pork.

[Sneakeater]

This may not be particularly relevant, but I just wanted to say that I had a pork tenderloin at A Voce this week that was cooked perfectly. None of this bullshit overcooking. It was pink and glistening. I don't know about its tasting "metallic", but it definitely had a very strong porky flavor that many people who are used to the flavorless overcooked masses that are commonly served as "pork" in this country might find objectionable -- imagine, pork has a flavor! -- but that I just love.

[Busboy]

It's worth noting that, whether you fear trichinosis or not, another factor in the pink pork trend is that research revealed that the temperature needed to kill the bad guys was much lower than previously thought. Your mom was told that pork needed to be cooked to 170 or 180. Today, a temperature of 140 is considered sufficient to do the trick.

[russ parsons]

It is important to remember that, if you want to eat 150 to 155 degree pork, pull it out of the oven/broiler/etc when it registers 145 on the thermometer. As you let it rest for 5 to 10 minutes (essential for the best eating experience), the temp will rise into your "comfort zone".

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this really depends on the cut. while you can count on a 10-degree "push" with thicker cuts, say a loin, with thinner cuts, like most chops and the tenderloin, you'll be more likely to get 5 degrees.

in the end, the only solution is to pay attention when you're cooking pork and see what temp you prefer it at. for me, 155 to 160 is perfect: still moist but with fully developed flavor.

[coquus]

It is important to remember that, if you want to eat 150 to 155 degree pork, pull it out of the oven/broiler/etc when it registers 145 on the thermometer. As you let it rest for 5 to 10 minutes (essential for the best eating experience), the temp will rise into your "comfort zone".

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this really depends on the cut. while you can count on a 10-degree "push" with thicker cuts, say a loin, with thinner cuts, like most chops and the tenderloin, you'll be more likely to get 5 degrees.

in the end, the only solution is to pay attention when you're cooking pork and see what temp you prefer it at. for me, 155 to 160 is perfect: still moist but with fully developed flavor.

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Whatever you say, thermometer shmermometer however. It all depends on alot more than thickness.

[molto e]

I had this Presa de Iberico al Aceite de regaliz, cintas de patatas,y boniato con chufa/ Pork shoulder, marinated tomato, oxalis and onion cube

at Akelare in San Sebastian:

I was surprised it was cooked to this temperature, but it was delicious.

[russ parsons]

Whatever you say, thermometer shmermometer however.  It all depends on alot more than thickness.

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hmmm, i'm not sure what you're saying. but the "push" you get does depend on thickness. it's a matter of retained heat and that depends on mass. big pieces will increase internal temperature longer after removal from the heat than small pieces. that's all i was saying.

and boy molto, that is the reddest, "grainiest" pork i've ever seen. if you hadn't told me different, i would have sworn that was beef. amazing stuff.

[docsconz]

Regardless of the temperature it is cooked to pork containing trichinella is safe (at least from that) after three days of deep freeze.

I think most people who still prefer pork well-done is because of long-standing tradition. The tradition was based on a valid point back in the day, but that point is no longer valid today unless one is eating unfrozen, undercooked pork from an unknown source. Personally, I am more concerned about eating too-fresh, never-frozen sushi.

[H. du Bois]

All this talk of pork made me crave it so badly that I grilled myself a nice, thick loin pork chop last night. Pan grilled, that is - barbecues on fire escapes are illegal here. Perfectly pale pink and glistening in the middle - a little darker pink than I've ever been served before on one outer, thicker edge. No metallic taste whatsoever, and very juicy. I couldn't say what temperature I grilled it to, as I've never used a meat thermometer on a pork chop in my life. I'd eat it that way again for sure.

Re: docsconz's comment above, I once knew a physician who offered to send me all kinds of literature about parasites when I mentioned that I love sushi.

[divalasvegas]

I had this Presa de Iberico al Aceite de regaliz, cintas de patatas,y boniato con chufa/ Pork shoulder, marinated tomato, oxalis and onion cube

at Akelare in San Sebastian:

I was surprised it was cooked to this temperature, but it was delicious.

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To each his own. I would not be happy if a chef served me pork cooked that rare. Ick. Which is why I don't like, cook, or order pork loin in a restaurant. As for the overcooked pork everyone is complaining about, it is actually possible to cook pork done and have it remain juicy and delicious. I can, so could my mom. Makes me wonder why it's so difficult for these "professionals" to do that.

Reminds me of an episode of that old David Rosengarten cooking show, Taste. He had a cookoff between him and his dad. Wow, did that man (the dad) know his way around meat. One of the meats were lamb chops. David said how he liked his cooked medium rare. Dad, being older and wiser, cooked his to medium. He told sonny boy that in his opinion cooking it that way brought out the flavor of the meat and even David had to admit that his tasted better. Dad made a return visit and cooked a variety of seafood using different methods. Stellar. I'll take a properly prepared meshwi or a thick, lovely stuffed baked pork chop any day over bleeding lamb or pork.

But like I said, to each his/her own.