Jean-Paul Hèvin Experience

[pierre45]

My comment about the Herve and helene d'arroze incident is as follows.

- I beleive in both situations the clients were way too kind and polite.In both situations the merchants were wrong. In the case of Herve the action taken was appropriate, except i would have explained the pettiness and the loss of good will

with their behavior and tell them that i'll tell the story on the internet.

In the case of H D'arroze i will explain why the food is not acceptable and wait for them to ask me to choose something else.

I have had similar experiences before and an assertive behavior worked well .

I realize that speaking french makes a big difference .However i beleive that to indicate that the food is not to one's taste gives the impression that the restaurant is not at fault .ITs a star restaurant after all and they will try to please .

[John Talbott]

In the case of H  D'arroze i will explain why the food is not acceptable and wait for them to ask me to choose something else.

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Well Pierre, not to minimize our cowardly behavior, but two of us speak letter-perfect French and the other two are quite adequate at remonstrating in French. We did try at least 6 firsts, and when the replacements and the mains were just as bad, this was no longer a workable strategy. There's a time for fight and a time for flight, my father's pal Walter Cannon maintained.

[Daddy-A]

David runs some very highly regarded chocolate tours in Paris. The people who wanted to take photos are not just friends but clients. While they may have passed up buying some very good chocolate at Hevin, they were not going to pass up buying very good chocolate elsewhere as Paris is chock full of great chocolate and if anyone knows it  it is David. I disagree, this is a policy that Hevin may very well end up regretting.

Ahhhh ... this is a tidbit on information I didn't have. I agree, this is a silly policy. David is of course correct; either allow photos, or don't. Making it contingent on a purchase is quite petty.

There's a time for fight and a time for flight, my father's pal Walter Cannon maintained.

Wise words. Does this tome allow me to still keep the chocolates?

A.

ps - David - I may be in touch. My wife and I will be in Paris in September.

[docsconz]

i bet she detected "Ricans"

I'm not quite sure what this means or why it should make a difference.

what is it... 10% of satisfied customers will tell the world about their positive experience while 90% of dissatisfied customers will tell the world...

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I think that it is probably a matter of the level of disatisfaction. For myself, I prefer to speak positively unless I perceive something to be particularly aggregious. That doesn't mean I am not honest in my assessment or that I shun giving a poor review. I simply try not to gratuitously criticize. However, if there is something that really rubs me the wrong way or I am in marked disagreement with other opinions than I will offer my negative responses. I believe that people should be responsible and honest with their critiques.

The power of the internet works both ways. It can bring attention to and rewards to some businesses and destroy others. Like it or not that is the way of the world now and businesses should pay attention. Customer service is more important than ever.

[David Lebovitz]

Yes, my French friends always tell me to get what you want, you need to raise your voice and cause a scene, but I (perhaps foolishly) figure that a reasonable, civil conversation should be all that's necessary.

Unfortunately, writing a letter here or complaining (as John noted) is basically a waste of time, since I am 100% certain that no one cares. It's why so many people hear dream of a career in civil service; they can't be fired.

Fortunately, I was able to delete the large amount of space that I devoted to Hèvin in an upcoming article I'm writing for a major airline magazine on gastronomic addresses in Paris, with a circulation of 2 million readers.

...touché!

[sanrensho]

so I politely asked the salesclerk, who replied, "You can only take a photo after you buy something."

Such a petty attitude. Given the number of other options you have in Paris, it makes complete sense to take your business elsewhere.

If I were the proprietor, I would fire that salesclerk in a second.

[John Talbott]

It's why so many people hear dream of a career in civil service; they can't be fired.

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It's ironic and quite off-topic, but today for the third time in 50 years in France, I was treated rudely, by a civil servant at the Poste, who was thankfully not French French so I maintain my theory and experience that 100% of the rudeness in France is from others who are pretending they know how the French behave.

[BigboyDan]

If a sane person read this thread, he'd laugh his ass off.

Walk out in a huff because one couldn't take a picture without buying something? Hello, Oprah? Buy a candy bar and take the picture... sheesh!

[John Talbott]

If a sane person read this thread, he'd laugh his ass off.

Walk out in a huff because one couldn't take a picture without buying something? Hello, Oprah? Buy a candy bar and take the picture... sheesh!

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Well,

1) There's no sane folks on eGullet.org, so don't worry - doesn't obsession with food define membership?

2) One does have to assert oneself in France or one gets trampled. An elbow to the ribs to the mec creeping the line does it quite well (with ample apologies afterwards of course).

3) And food, especially chocolate, is serious business.

4) Who's Oprah?

[BigboyDan]

Ha!

Touche, John. Summed it up in four sentences!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I am really curious which Hévin outlet this was, because I have a pretty good recollection of having been in the St. Honore store when a handful of young Asian women came in with cameras at the ready. Nothing was said when they photographed the entire interior.

[Carlsbad]

I'm just grateful I don't have to have bad food at Helene Darroze or an experience like that at Hévin, since I know not to go there now.

To be honest, I can't remember a truly bad experience in Paris. Everything hasn't always been perfect, of course. Since I am there for only a week or two at a time, I select safe places about which there is little criticism anywhere. Paris has more than enough for my limited visits, especially when I have resources like eGullet France.

Perhaps because my work involves confronting overbearing and rude people quite often, I try to avoid conflict when I am on vacation. I reserve, confirm and often overdress. I try to remain positive, even when there are minor service lapses or I don't like something. I also recognize the difficulties in running a restaurant, and that while I have an opinion, it is only my opinion.

That said, if I got that much bad food in one visit, I would probably just leave, perhaps saying that telling the waiter why we were leaving. I go to dinner to relax and enjoy a good meal and good wine. If I have to get very assertive at dinner, the night is already ruined. On the other hand, if someone with me suggested leaving the food on the floor thing, I would go along in a second.

[David Lebovitz]

I am really curious which Hévin outlet this was, because I have a pretty good recollection of having been in the St. Honore store when a handful of young Asian women came in with cameras at the ready.  Nothing was said when they photographed the entire interior.

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It was the Jean-Paul Hévin shop on the avenue de la Motte Picquet.

[John Talbott]

It's ironic and quite off-topic, but today for the third time in 50 years in France, I was treated rudely, by a civil servant at the Poste, who was thankfully not French French so I maintain my theory and experience that 100% of the rudeness in France is from others who are pretending they know how the French behave.

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In no way do I want my comments to be construed as diminishing David’s experience - which was insupportable – David is one of my deities. But I would like to rise to defend the French and their reputation, expressed on this Forum, many times before, for rudeness, brusqueness, unpleasantness and the like. As I’ve said before, I’ve been treated uncivilly three times in 53 years; all three times by non-French-born folk. I’m not counting blowing smoke in your direction, shoving in line, talking loudly on cell-phones or adolescents not giving up seats to the elderly or putting their feet up on Metro seats – those constitute cultural differences.

Today I had an example of French politesse and customer service orientation at that most commercial and detached product place – BHV- where I’d ordered some extra bathroom cabinet shelves, one of which came 1 cm short and without the trucs you stick in to let it sit. (This is not OT, I had a coffee at their great Café Bricolo in the basement earlier). Anyway, I show up on the 4th floor (not the detaché or pickup places, but at the rayon and with the woman I’d ordered it from.) Anyway, up I sidle, explain my problem, do a little dumb-show with the demo cabinet and voila in 5 minutes I had the correct shelf and 4 new trucs. Compare that to the way I used to be treated at my Citibank branch on 94th St and Broadway, where keeping my money seemed to be such a burden.

[cigalechanta]

This whole thread should be mailed to Hèvin.

I once wrote a letter to a chef who has several seafood restos called shacks about how disappointed I was in his grilled lobster. It was dry, papery. I was at first so excited to see it on the menu because you rarely see it on menus in the Boston area. In Brittany and Normandy, it is fantastic. Anyway, the chef/owner never answered.

[artisanbaker]

Amer "Ricans"

[fresh_a]

I'm surprised about the phrase about being able to take photos after you buy something..... but I think maybe it is more likely that she got pissed off because every two minutes uncouth, loud tourists came in to take pictures of their displays. That'd irk me if I worked there...

[bleudauvergne]

I am really curious which Hévin outlet this was, because I have a pretty good recollection of having been in the St. Honore store when a handful of young Asian women came in with cameras at the ready.  Nothing was said when they photographed the entire interior.

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Asking before snapping is a courtesy we'd all do well to follow, and given that the clerk made up some inane and obviously fictional policy just to tell David's group who's in charge is really not acceptable.

Speaking of crazy "policy", I had a discussion with a lady at the St. Antoine market who transports an entire French patissiere to the quai side, macarons, tartes, etc. I rarely buy there because I feel that the conditions of shipment and being outdoors in all weather conditions doesn't do much for the meringue etc. But they do from time to time display some pretty handiwork. I was researching the Lyonnais praline tarte and there was one in the right place at the right time on her stand.

I asked if I could take a picture, she asked if I was a journalist, I replied that I do sell my work from time to time, and then she refused to allow me to take the photo, stating that her husband works hard to produce these pastries and she won't have me making money off his work for free. Ludicrous reasoning already established, she added to the pile, saying that of course was different for an "established journalist" she said, who was sure to cite the name of their stand under the photo in a very fancy magazine. Something about that exchange still bristles with me mainly because it's that kind of bitterness that kills what's good in any exchange.

Last photo refusal was last month when I was obsessing about "stacks of things", and asked one holiday fill-in stand if I could photo a stack of her Tommes de Savoie. (on some holiday weekends, vendors who aren't regulars at the St. Antoine market are able to obtain a stand if a regular vendor is taking the holiday). She pursed her lips hesitantly and nodded no, as if taking the photo would diminish their soul, and I moved on. It didn't feel good, but what can you do?

The regular vendors at St. Antoine know me and all but two understand that I am honestly trying to record the beauty of the market (one is a mushroom vendor who I'm pretty sure doesn't want me taking pictures because she imports her girolles and marks them "France", and the other is a Comte vendor who has a paranoid vision of me taking photos as a form of spying on his prices). The healthy minded vendors know that any photos that eventually are circulated will only reinforce good publicity for the market.

[bleudauvergne]

I'm surprised about the phrase about being able to take photos  after you buy something..... but I think maybe it is more likely that she got pissed off because every two minutes uncouth, loud tourists came in to take pictures of their displays. That'd irk me if I worked there...

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I was thinking that instead of being irked by the tourists, she was irked by David's knowledge of chocolate which surpassed her own, her knee jerk reaction to that being the way she tried to make the group submit to her. Not nice either way.

[fresh_a]

sure. but maybe what came before really pissed her off...like the 10.000 other tourists... no excuse of course..

[gastrominator]

I don't care much for their chocolates, to be honest. The packaging is nice.

The French think a lot of their chocolate-making prowess. Swiss chocolate is much better.

[Ptipois]

The French think a lot of their chocolate-making prowess. Swiss chocolate is much better.

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French "trendy" chocolate tends to be too dry, bitter and abstract, headache-indulging. Hévin is an example of the tendency. We do have great chocolatiers but I count as such those who do not follow that trend, like La Maison du Chocolat or Michel Chaudun, or even chains like Cacao et Chocolat. I don't think Hévin is such a loss for a chocolate tour, and IMO French trendy chocolatiers are a bit overrated. Most of it is Valrhona, anyway, so much of it tastes the same.

Swiss chocolate, on the other hand, tastes a bit too sweet to me. Vive le chocolat belge !

Edited May 16, 2006 by Ptipois (log)

[Tarek]

Swiss chocolate, on the other hand, tastes a bit too sweet to me. Vive le chocolat belge !

hmmm. belgian chocolate is probably the sweetest of the bunch, at least to me

not counting Marcolini, his chocolate is more "french"

tarek

[gastrominator]

The French think a lot of their chocolate-making prowess. Swiss chocolate is much better.

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French "trendy" chocolate tends to be too dry, bitter and abstract, headache-indulging. Hévin is an example of the tendency. We do have great chocolatiers but I count as such those who do not follow that trend, like La Maison du Chocolat or Michel Chaudun, or even chains like Cacao et Chocolat. I don't think Hévin is such a loss for a chocolate tour, and IMO French trendy chocolatiers are a bit overrated. Most of it is Valrhona, anyway, so much of it tastes the same.

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I totally agree 'dry, bitter and abstract'(more like cooking chocolate. ie I could imagine Mr Yoshino popping one into his red wine and chocolate sauce that he serves with the 'lièvre à la royale' at the Stella Maris).

I love the Maison du Chocolat's champagne truffles, and I think that they've definitely hit the nail on the head with what I would define as perfect chocolates.

The thing about chocolate eating is that you have to use self control because you will always want another one if they are very good(like tasting dishes at L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon). If I eat Hévin-style chocolates, one is enough.

[Tarek]

The thing about chocolate eating is that you have to use self control because you will always want another one if they are very good(like tasting dishes at L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon). If I eat Hévin-style chocolates, one is enough.

I agree with you on L'Atelier, and while I do like Hevin's chocolate, right now I am

enamored by Jacques Genin's, zzzzzee top

Tarek