Sichuan Hot Chili Pepper Chicken 辣子雞

[hzrt8w]

I just went to "Spice!" restaurant in San Francisco for dinner last night. It serves "trendy" Sichuan/Taiwanese cuisines.

I ordered a dish of "Sichuan Hot Chili Pepper Chicken" (辣子雞). Here is a picture:

The taste was pretty good all right. But this was scary for a Cantonese boy like me (Cantonese are typically not fond of hot food). Look at how many dried hot chilies they used? I roughly counted. They must have used between 150 to 200 dried hot chilies to make this dish! I know we discussed this before... It's for the flavor. But does anybody really eat all these chilies? I think I will drop dead in the restaurant half way if I've ever tried.

Here is what I really don't understand: Why use so many dried chilies if most of them wouldn't be consumed anyway? They cook with dried hot chilies whole. If it is for the hot flavor, shouldn't cutting up the dried chilies be more effective? What flavor can one derive from 200 dried hot chilies that one couldn't do with 100? Or even just 50? These dried hot chilies are selling at about US$2.50 a bag (maybe 400 by count). They sure spend a lot on the ingredients that seem unnecessary. In a country that "nothing goes to waste", it seems to be very much in contrary to common sense.

Anyway, here is what's left on my dish after I had consumed all the chicken pieces:

The spices included bits of salt, garlic, ginger, green onion and Sichuan peppercorn (powder).

And the way this restaurant made this dish is a bit of rip-off I think. The chicken pieces you see in the picture: they are all from the elbows of the chicken wings. Chopped Elbows of Chicken Wings!!! You can see how much meat they give you. I understand about dark meat is more flavorful than white meat. But chicken wings with bones? Needless to say there won't be a second time. I may give this restaurant one more try but definitely not this dish from them.

Here are some pictures on how to cook this dish (pictorial). In Chinese though.

常美味紅油辣子雞(組圖)

Edited March 4, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[wesza]

Ah Leung:

I have eaten and mostly enjoyed "Sichuan Hot Chili Pepper Chicken" all over the world but never seem it served in that manner.

Almost everywhere the dried peppers are somewhat darkened during the cooking to enhance the chickens aroma and flavors these were completely red, more like a garnish then actually cooked with the chicken in the wok.

Even the "Chicken Wing Elbows" (something I have never seen served in any Restaurant) seemed to look like they were coated and deep fried, not wok braised fried.

I have known of Chinese Restaurants that will actually remove the so called "Elbow Joint" from the wings and put it into their Superior Stock to enhance the flavor since they often prefer not serving them to customers, trying to make their Chicken Wing preparations special or unique to their operation.

I almost always anticipate being served a 1/2 Chicken with a very light coating being baste fried quickly together with the Chili's and immediately served sizzling on a platter or serving plate covered and opened table side for the aroma.

It seems that between so called Fusion and Contrived Dishes that almost anything goes that places can get away with, I'm curious if anyone else has been served this dish with such a abundance of red chilli's and such a small amount of edible Chicken from the Wing Joint Bones.

How much did they charge you for this extraordinary dish ? I guess it's very colorful, sort of pretty. (strange?)

Irwin

[muichoi]

That's just what I was going to say-the chillies don't appear to be cooked, and they are the wrong variety. The true Sichuan chili gives such dishes a wonderful aroma without being really hot. This looks like a version of a deep-fried'salt and pepper' dish where the whole lot is put into hot oil and removed with a fine strainer-the chillies presumably being added for the last seconds. In other words,not a Sichan dish at all.

Edited March 4, 2006 by muichoi (log)

[weinoo]

Interesting pic you took there, Leung. Here in NY, at the Grand Sichuan on 9th Ave. and 50th St. I was served a very similar style of spicy chicken - all chicken elbows and chilis - practically impossible to eat; however, the chilis were much more blackened than in your photo - they had obviously been seared in the wok prior to their being cooked along with the chicken.

Just the other day at lunch, however, I had the same named dish at the Grand Sichuan on St. Mark's Place and it was full of a yummy, fresh-killed chicken - had to be 1/2 a chicken in there along with 50 or so chilis - I was picking them out and placing them in a bowl alongside and that bowl was full! But the dish was spectacular - something one would expect to be so fiery as to be unable to eat, yet not. Along with chunks of some sort of dried pork, the chicken remains very moist and just spicy enough, yet not too spicy - and I couldn't stop eating - very addictive. And quite a contrast to the dish a few months earlier, as well as yours at Spice.

[Dejah]

That's just what I was going to say-the chillies don't appear to be cooked, and they are the wrong variety. The true Sichuan chili gives such dishes a wonderful aroma without being really hot.

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Does anyone have a picture of the above"true Sichuan chili"?

I have always used the dried ones as shown in Ah Leung's photo...not as many, of course.

These dried hot chilies are selling at about US$2.50 a bag (maybe 400 by count).

It's not expensive when you buy in huge bagfuls, but if used in those quantities/dish, it is wasteful. A small handful would make just as pretty a presentation. Perhaps it's done as a challenge to Gwai Lows.

I have a Glad sandwich bagful of these fresh chilis. Think I'll chop some up and make black bean GARLIC Shanghai noodles for supper in honour of "sexy garlic breath"Irwin.

[jo-mel]

Interesting serving 'dish'. Is that bamboo? I see what looks to be foil sticking out of the side.

Just checked thru my Sichuan books and 辣子雞 la zi ji recipes call for only a few chilis -- 10 and under. Fuchsia Dunlop uses a small rice bowl of dried chilis, but she says to use Sichuan chilis if possible. They are moderately hot.

Maybe the chef in that restaurant just likes to boast the hottest dish around? And maybe he makes up for the cost of the chilis by using cheap elbows?

Are you keeping a food log on this trip? And are you going to go home and indulge in some nice comforting neutral congee?

[jo-mel]

Think I'll chop some up and make black bean GARLIC Shanghai noodles for supper in honour of "sexy garlic breath"Irwin.  

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I just LOVE Shanghai noodles! So how is this dish made?

[hzrt8w]

How much did they charge you for this extraordinary dish ? I guess it's very colorful, sort of pretty. (strange?)

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They charge US$8.95 for this dish. It is about par in San Francisco standard though a bit high compared to Sacramento's. Right price or not, to me this dish is not a good value.

Thanks for sharing with me your experience on Sichuan Hot Chili Chicken. I tend to think this might be a one-restaurant's practice but I don't eat Sichuan food often enough to tell.

Sadly this restaurant gets really good review on some local journals and on Chowhound. I passed by before on a weekend evening and it was jam-packed. I plan to go to their second outlet "Spice! II" but would try out some other non-chicken dishes. La Zi Ji is out.

[hzrt8w]

That's just what I was going to say-the chillies don't appear to be cooked, and they are the wrong variety. [...]

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The chilies are cooked, but perhaps only very briefly. Not long enough to turn them dark brown or black. Maybe they recycle the chilies???!!!

I cannot tell which kind of chili is the right kind for Sichuan food. They all seem to be the dried, narrow and short, and bright red in color.

[muichoi]

Got sichuan chillies in front of me, but no technology unfortunately. Imagine a miniaturised bell pepper with no edges. Amazing fragrance.

[Dejah]

Got sichuan chillies in front of me, but no technology unfortunately. Imagine a miniaturised bell pepper with no edges. Amazing fragrance.

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I googled, thanks.

[hzrt8w]

Interesting serving 'dish'. Is that bamboo?  I see what looks to be foil sticking out of the side.

[...]

Are you keeping a food log on this trip?  And are you going to go home and indulge in some nice comforting neutral congee?

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Yes, the serving "dish" is made of bamboo. And they use aluminum foil to line the bottom so the chili oil would not ruin the bamboo. But they didn't bother to trim the corners of the foil, so the dish looks a bit tacky.

Yes, Ma Ma! I learned that from you... keep a food log. I like hot food. But not that hot!

[Dejah]

Think I'll chop some up and make black bean GARLIC Shanghai noodles for supper in honour of "sexy garlic breath"Irwin.  

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I just LOVE Shanghai noodles! So how is this dish made?

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Jo,

The Shanghai noodles are fat white noodles that I buy in the fridge section of our grocery store.

The version that I served at Soo's was Shanghai noodles stir-fried with sweet chili sauce, oyster sauce, bean sprouts and BBQ pork or some other meat.

The one that I make at home more frequently is stir-fried with garlic, fermented black beans, and chopped fresh chilis or Thai bird's eye chilis when I can get them. I threw this version together for a visiting band of vegetarian musicians. They liked very spicy food, so I added a lot of chopped chilis and topped the whole thing with deep-fried shredded wonton skins and fresh mint. It was a hit and became a family favourite.

Here's a picture of it from my foodblog:

http://www.hillmans.soupbo.com/soos/foodlog4.html

[wesza]

That's just what I was going to say-the chillies don't appear to be cooked, and they are the wrong variety. The true Sichuan chili gives such dishes a wonderful aroma without being really hot.

←

Does anyone have a picture of the above"true Sichuan chili"?

I have always used the dried ones as shown in Ah Leung's photo...not as many, of course.

These dried hot chilies are selling at about US$2.50 a bag (maybe 400 by count).

It's not expensive when you buy in huge bagfuls, but if used in those quantities/dish, it is wasteful. A small handful would make just as pretty a presentation. Perhaps it's done as a challenge to Gwai Lows.

I have a Glad sandwich bagful of these fresh chilis. Think I'll chop some up and make black bean GARLIC Shanghai noodles for supper in honour of "sexy garlic breath"Irwin.

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Dejah:

Thank you for the allocate of "Sexy Garlic Breath Irwin" but this is not a affliction that occurs in my aura. YES ! I always eat some Cilantro, Leaf Parsley and Curly Parsley whenever indulging in lots of Garlic unless I have company that savors the reek. It does have powers of stimulation that always worth considering. It also helps you to provide more privacy from anyone who is not worthy of enjoying the experience. I'm very flattered about the "Sexy" though, WOW !

You mentioned about certain students seeming to eat garlic for breakfast. I"m willing to bet that they were all students with high grades. After all, "GARLIC" rules.

Especially with Chili Peppers and Fermented Black Beans !

If your making the Noodles make sure to include them in "Bill's" honor to modify the effects.

It seems that at certain "Sichuan Restaurants" it's not only "Gwai Lows" who are being treated to special renditions of certain dishes but it may now be served to "Cantonese" as well especially the "Americanized Variations" who are more vulnerable.

Last night I ordered a dish takeout from a Seattle Sichuan Restaurant of "Prawns with Black Beans, Chili and Garlic", that contained about 10 Seared Sichuan Chili's colored Red, Blackish and Dark Brown from the cooking process but were very aromatic and not particuarly hot only enough to enhance the dish's flavors.

Irwin :roll eyes:

Edited March 4, 2006 by wesza (log)

[Dejah]

Irwin,

Not that I would ever imply you were sexy or not, but the comment "sexy garlic breath" was deduced from your post in Garlicy Shanghai food thread...

Dejah:

Growing up in the Bronx, spending time on Arthur Avenue, belonging to a Puerto Rican Social Club with Middle Eastern friends being Jewish living in Asia, Honolulu and preparing Banquets for the Gilroy Garlic Festival all I can say is:

"WHAT BREATH" ? oh guess you mean the ones that's "SEXY". (It's never effected my pores, even after James Beards Garlic Chicken with 40 whole cloves)

Irwin blink.gif wub.gif

No, I can't say the students with morning garlic breath are all top notch students...and it's not all from their breath. It's an aura around them!

I had some chopped fresh chilis with my cheung fun for lunch. I can still feel the heat in my stomach.

[rjwong]

Ah Leung, I'm looking at a recipe called "Sichuan Peppery Chicken" from Clifford Wright's cookbook, "Some Like It Hot."

With one lb. of boneless, skinless chicken thighs, the spicy ingredients include:

8 fresh red finger-type or jalapeno chiles, seeded and chopped

1 tablespoon Sichuan chile bean paste

2 dried red de arbol chiles

1/4 teaspoon ground Sichuan peppercorns

In the photo in your opening post, the dish with all those chiles is for show & for filler, IMO. Adding more chiles probably cost less than adding more chicken meat, ehh?

[hzrt8w]

More and more I feel that this dish of "La zi ji" (Sichuan Hot Pepper Chicken) offered at "Spice!" is out of the norm of Sichuan dishes. Whether the hundreds of chilies are for show or are space fillers, they already make a high profit margin by giving you chicken wing elbows instead of chicken breast or chicken thigh meats.

What surprised me was the wonderful review by a local journal. A copy of that review was framed and hung on the wall inside the restaurant. If I based on this dish alone, it wouldn't make my mark. Or perhaps they baited and switched when the reviewers were in the dining room.

[wesza]

More and more I feel that this dish of "La zi ji" (Sichuan Hot Pepper Chicken) offered at "Spice!" is out of the norm of Sichuan dishes.  Whether the hundreds of chilies are for show or are space fillers, they already make a high profit margin by giving you chicken wing elbows instead of chicken breast or chicken thigh meats.

What surprised me was the wonderful review by a local journal.  A copy of that review was framed and hung on the wall inside the restaurant.  If I based on this dish alone, it wouldn't make my mark.  Or perhaps they baited and switched when the reviewers were in the dining room.

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Ah Yeung:

The dish you were served at "Spice Restaurant" is more out of the norm (almost outer worldly) then any I have ever come across.

I have never experienced being served anything that contains "Wing Joints" with some type of coating at any Restaurant, especially one that serving a traditional dish called "Sichuan Hot Chili Pepper Chicken".

To be honest I would have returned this to the kitchen asking what happened to the "Chicken" that I ordered ?

The first time I enjoyed this dish in the States was when the Chinese Government sent 3 Sichuan Chefs to NYC in honor of opening a genuine "Sichuan Restaurant" on the upper east side of Manhattan.

The chicken that was served for a table of 10 diners was a "Whole Chicken" beautifully cut into pieces, but appearing whole in the center of a platter with about 15/20 whole baste seared chili's. When the platter was brought to the table it was presented and opened with a delicious aroma escaping.

The Chicken was pink, very juicy and the first I had been served in the states with it's head still on intact. It lasted about 10 minutes before being finished with someone enjoying the head.

May I reiterate that I have never been served "Wing Joints" at any Restaurant. I often order Fried Chicken Wings in Seattle's International District where I receive 10/12 pieces for a average price of $4.95 that would seem to be a larger portion that was put into your order at "Spice".

Regarding Restaurant Reviews:

The majority are advertising related in many Newspapers advertiser oriented. Even those reviews that are supposedly objective depend on the experience and expertise of the reviewer. If you look at those often displayed at Restaurants very few come from real professional reviewers. In most communities the reviewers are often known by the Restaurant operators and staff so whats being served isn't quite the same as that served everyone else.

Always take them with a grain of salt.

"Sexy Garlic Breath" Irwin

Edited March 5, 2006 by wesza (log)

[wesza]

Irwin,

Not that I would ever imply you were sexy or not, but the comment "sexy garlic breath" was deduced from your post in Garlicy Shanghai food thread...

Dejah:

Growing up in the Bronx, spending time on Arthur Avenue, belonging to a Puerto Rican Social Club with Middle Eastern friends being Jewish living in Asia, Honolulu and preparing Banquets for the Gilroy Garlic Festival all I can say is:

"WHAT BREATH" ? oh guess you mean the ones that's "SEXY". (It's never effected my pores, even after James Beards Garlic Chicken with 40 whole cloves)

Irwin blink.gif wub.gif

No, I can't say the students with morning garlic breath are all top notch students...and it's not all from their breath. It's an aura around them!

I had some chopped fresh chilis with my cheung fun for lunch. I can still feel the heat in my stomach.

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Dejah:

I'm pretty sure that in Brandon, Manitoba the temperature every nights drops into the teens. I'm sure those warm Chili's in your tummy are very comforting.

I am sure that your students gain a measure of privacy thru their "AURA".

I checked with my friend who owns several Restaurants in NYC and he also uses some of the older oil from this Fryers to make his brown gravy for Egg Foo Yung.

I asked about the Oyster Sauce, he said it's two expensive, Maggi's cheaper and better, also makes nicer color.

I enjoyed being titled, "Sexy Garlic Breath" as I felt that was something that would make me stand out almost anywhere. Well I enjoyed it for a while.

Irwin

[hzrt8w]

[...]To be honest I would have returned this to the kitchen asking what happened to the "Chicken" that I ordered ?

[...]

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On Chinese menus, usually there are more descriptions on whether the chicken is a whole chicken, diced meat (ji ding), sliced meat (ji pan), or shredded meat (ji si or ji lau). This one at "Spice!" only said "chicken" (in both English and Chinese). It would be hard to argue.

I did not realize they are ALL chicken joints (I thought only a few pieces were) until I was half way comsuming the dish.

Edited March 4, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[Dejah]

I enjoyed being titled, "Sexy Garlic Breath" as I felt that was something that would make me stand out almost anywhere. Well I enjoyed it for a while.

Irwin

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You'll be enjoying it for a long time, Irwin. Once minted...it's permanent!

And I am sure, with or without the aura, you'll be a standout anywhere.

[Ben Hong]

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[jo-mel]

Xiao Leung -- it is hard to see from the picture, but did those chicken elbows have much chicken on them? The joint part, as with the tips seem to have more cartilege than actual meat. Probably full of flavor from the sauce, and great chewing, -----but actual meat?

I wasn't going to get in on the "garlic breath" talk, but I can't help myself. I feel, that if two of you have garlic breath --- then it CAN be sexy!! (Moderators --- we'are still talking FOOD here!)

Also-- a while back there was something on those two Sichuanese restaurants that vied for authenticity for their own Kong Pao Chicken. I tried to find it, but failed. Can any of you techies help? That is one of the dishes I'll be having when my classes start next week, and I wanted to show how the dish can vary with peanuts or green peppers or not, yet still be called by the name Gong Bao Ji (Kong Pao)-- even where it was born.

Edited March 5, 2006 by jo-mel (log)

[eje]

I picked up some sichuan chiles the other week at 99Ranch on an impulse. This thread inspired me to make something with them.

I got out my good old "Classic Chinese Cuisine" by Nina Simonds and tried "Tangerine Peel Chicken" (Chen Pi Ji).

This was my first time cooking with them and I was pleasantly surprised by how flavorful and mild the chiles were. I guess I'm used to those red bombs that get tossed into thai dishes. The flavor and aroma of the Sichuan chiles reminded me most of dried New Mexico Red Chiles. Tangerine Peel Chicken was a tasty combination with some quickly cooked spicy braised bitter greens. The tasty gravy had us almost licking the platter to get the last of it.

Next I'll have to try "Dry-Fried Chicken" from the Dunlop book.

hzrt8w, I look forward to reading more about your pilgrimage to the fair city by the bay. I hope you find other places more to your liking.

[budrichard]

Most people have never eaten true Szechuan food. The chiles are not for eating. A lot are needed to provide the correct taste and heat. Most restaurant reviwers are just journalists that a newspaper editor decided to make a critic.

The only really good and authentic Szechuan restaurant i have eaten at in the US is http://www.laoszechuan.com . The 'Chef's Special Dry chile Chicken' has a LOT of chiles and a great dry coating. The heat is reasonable and the flavor great.

Find another restaurant.-Dick