Shopping sources and Customs regulations

[raisab]

I am having an open house Christmas party at my house Friday the 16th. I plan to buy my cheeses in France on Monday and fly back on Tuesday. My dilemna and where I need help is the following. I want to serve Foie Gras with toasted spice bread. Does anyone know of a bakery that makes great spice bread in Paris? And is spice bread something that will keep until Friday or will it go stale?

I would also like to buy a beautiful Terrine, preferably a seafood one and a vegetable terrine? Who can recommend a shop to buy this at? And again, as long as I keep it well refrigerated, will it keep?

John, Felice, P'titPois, anyone? Merci Bien!

[menton1]

Before you undertake this shopping, I recommend that you check with the APHIS website as to whether these items are allowed back into the US. Those cute beagles have very sharp noses, and your very prized foodstuffs might be confiscated!!

[Ptipois]

The seafood terrine : I have no particular ideas, but try Dalloyau, they're reliable and their seafood terrines look nice.

The spice bread: I don't know what you mean by this — do you mean gingerbread, "pain d'épices"? In that case go to a specialty shop and get some pain d'épices de Dijon. Street markets often have a stall dedicated to that kind of product.

[raisab]

Menton, those items are all allowed in the US. The only prohibitions we have are against any kind of four legged creature, (Beef, lamb, pork,etc) and freah fruits and vegetables. Any kind of vegetable or fruit that has been cooked is allowed as well as some fresh vegetables, fruits and lettuces that don't contain seeds. I travel back and forth a few times a month and have memorized the rules.

P'titPois, Thanks, I forgot about the Christmas markets this month. I do want Pain d'Epice de Dijon. Hopefully these items will travel well.

[John Talbott]

Menton, those items are all allowed in the US. The only prohibitions we have are against any kind of four legged creature, (Beef, lamb, pork,etc) and freah fruits and vegetables. Any kind of vegetable or fruit that has been cooked is allowed as well as some fresh vegetables, fruits and lettuces that don't contain seeds. I travel back and forth a few times a month and have memorized the rules.

P'titPois, Thanks, I forgot about the Christmas markets this month. I do want Pain d'Epice de Dijon. Hopefully these items will travel well.

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Raisa, thanks for your precision (as the newsfolk say). I think it would be helpful given your metier and expertise, if you expanded on your post, esp about cheese (raw, pasteurized, aged, etc) - we all approach those "cute beagles" of Menton1's with fear and hope remembering the sights of fine seniors from Mediterranean countries giving up their cherished gifts to be. Thanks.

[raisab]

Raisa, thanks for your precision (as the newsfolk say).  I think it would be helpful given your metier and expertise, if you expanded on your post, esp about cheese (raw, pasteurized, aged, etc) - we all approach those "cute beagles" of Menton1's with fear and hope remembering the sights of fine seniors from Mediterranean countries giving up their cherished gifts to be.  Thanks.

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The cheeses are really no problem whatsoever. I bring raw milk in all the time. It must be aged 60 days but I have NEVER had a customs agent ask. Foie Gras can also be brought in legally as long as it is cooked. Fowl of any kind (cooked), Fish and crustaceans raw and uncooked. I have never brought a live one in. All forms of mushrooms are legal. Lettuce is legal. Fresh cut flowers are also fine.

I bring Foie Gras in and since I am crew I actually must list my items. I have brought foie gras cru but have declared it simply as foie gras. (i am not suggesting anyone do this but cru and cooked look the same to me).

Wine is iffy. Some states like Texas are very stringent and allow only two bottles. You can actually bring in as many as you like per US customs but then you will pay the tax on anything after 12, which is only 5% and most agents do not want to do the paperwork. You also have the burden of proving you are not a reseller of these wines.

Live dogs and cats with health certificates are just fine also. I bought Pierre (my Bouledog Francaise (sp?)) in Paris. He rode back in fist class with me on Air France, which is very dog friendly as is most of France .

[bleudauvergne]

As far as the pain d'epice keeping, you don't have too much to worry about. Once you toast it, even if it is a few days old, it will be fine. A nice way to present it with your fois gras is to cut it into shapes, any shapes you want. Something nice to do is to make oblong strips. It will soften up in the hot oven, but once you have pulled it out and it sits for a few minutes, it will get nice and crispy, like a crunchy toast. The contrast between the nice soft terrine de fois and the crispy toasted pain d'epice served together is nice.

Don't forget to serve some nice fruity alsacian wine with that!

[VivreManger]

I posted this in the Xmas shopping thread, but no need not to repeat it since it is germane. My experience confirms Raisa's.

"As for transporting cheese, I have been doing it for years with no trouble. Cryovaced or not it is perfectly safe for the hold of the plane. On one return home in the summer my bag was delayed for two days and all the cheeses came through in good - - in that case cryovaced - - form. In general Americans impose more cold storage on food than is needed. Technically raw milk cheese aged under 60 days is contraband in the US, but genteel customs officials never ask a cheese her age. Over the years the Logan (Boston airport) inspectors are the most genteel. On the other hand meat is a problem, particularly if it walks or hobbles - - in the case of bovine spongiform encephalyitis (sp) - - on four legs. So that toothsome terrine of ruminants may not pass muster. If you really crave a pate bring it on board and finish it on the flight over with some mustard, cornichons, and good bread, before you land. I have done that on a flight or two, always more satisfying than the plastic food on offer."

I have never brought in a fish or vegetable terrine, not because of fear of confiscation, but because I have never found one I thought worth the bother. I am curious as to how good the dish proves to be.

[TarteTatin]

I've found that when I've bought the pain d'epices at the street markets in Paris, they have a sell by date on them dated a few months later...they also aren't as good as when you get them fresh down in Burgundy.

Maybe there is a bakery that sells them fresh rather than pre-packaged in the marches...

Also, Raisab, is there an official site that has those food rules on it?

We get stopped all the time by the beagle, and I want to be prepared. Rather than saying, "well this is what I heard on egullet"!

[John Talbott]

Foie Gras can also be brought in legally as long as it is cooked. I have brought foie gras cru but have declared it simply as foie gras. (i am not suggesting anyone do this but cru and cooked look the same to me).

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This may be a nit no one can pick, but is "mi-cuit" foie gras in or out? And if anyone does know the answer to TarteTatin's query -

is there an official site that has those food rules on it?

- I think we'd all be grateful. For the food-obsessed, this discussion is most helpful. There is much lore and misinformation out there.

[Felice]

This may be a nit no one can pick, but is "mi-cuit" foie gras in or out? 

I could be very wrong but normally a terrine de foie gras is "foie gras mi-cuit" this is what you get when you order foie gras that comes on toast. It is made from baking the raw foie gras in a terrine (a type of pan). It's sometimes wrongly refered to as paté, at least by Americans. It's mostly duck (or goose) liver with perhaps some spices and a little cognac, but that's it.

You can also pan-sear raw foie gras.

[John Talbott]

This may be a nit no one can pick, but is "mi-cuit" foie gras in or out? 

I could be very wrong but normally a terrine de foie gras is "foie gras mi-cuit" this is what you get when you order foie gras that comes on toast. It is made from baking the raw foie gras in a terrine (a type of pan). It's sometimes wrongly refered to as paté, at least by Americans. It's mostly duck (or goose) liver with perhaps some spices and a little cognac, but that's it.

You can also pan-sear raw foie gras.

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No, you are quite correct.

I guess I wasn't clear; I was curious as to what the US Customs' Agents' little cheat sheet says about the acceptability of raw, mi-cuit, frais, cooked, tinned, etc foie gras?

[Lori in PA]

WHAT a helpful thread! Thank you. If possible, please elaborate as to your carrying methods -- how do you keep things like foie gras chilled in flight, for instance? My dad is a retired United captain. When I was a kid, our Lab puppy rode in a box on the jump seat from his birthplace in AL to Dulles. In later years, when Dad flew to Europe, I had treats from nearly every city he'd bring me from time to time. I should inform him how fortunate he is that he retired before I discovered egullet -- there are so many foods I've discovered in the last year -- he'd be foregoing sleep to track them all down.

[raisab]

I think there are no hard and fast rules in Agriculture about Mi-Cuit Foie Gras. I brought some in last week.

I was wrong about the liquor. It is 1 litre per person without duty, after that they have the option of charging you duty. With wine I have never had a problem.

The official US website here. US Customs It does not go into extreme details though. I will ask one of the customs guys if he has some other source of information I can have access to.

As for keeping foie gras refrigerated during flight, bring a small soft sided cooler with you and keep it in there during the flight. This company right heresoftcoolers has the most effective coolers I have ever used. They have kept ice frozen for over 48 hours for me!

Bleu, thank you for the advice, I got the idea for the spice bread from your last blog!

TarteTatin, I will look for a bakery, I have seen it in bakeries before in Paris, but not like I did Borgogne!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

We have found that the stringency of customs inspectors varies all over the board. We sailed through Dulles this week with no questioning at all although we marked that we were carrying food items; at SFO, if you indicate that you have any kind of food at all (chocolate, jam, etc.), you will probably be subjected to questions pertaining to any and all kinds of canned goods you might be carrying, specifically if any are of any meat product. The last inspector I asked said that foie gras was not allowed, nor any poultry product in any form. However, I have no faith that there is consistency among inspectors at any given port, much less at different ports. It is an annoying and risky situation when you are gambling on which inspector you will draw and how he will interpret the law.

[menton1]

The cheeses are really no problem whatsoever. I bring raw milk in all the time. It must be aged 60 days but I have NEVER had a customs agent ask. Foie Gras can also be brought in legally as long as it is cooked. Fowl of any kind (cooked), Fish and crustaceans raw and uncooked. I have never brought a live one in. All forms of mushrooms are legal. Lettuce is legal. Fresh cut flowers are also fine.

I bring Foie Gras in and since I am crew I actually must list my items. I have brought foie gras cru but have declared it simply as foie gras. (i am not suggesting anyone do this but cru and cooked look the same to me).

Wine is iffy. Some states like Texas are very stringent and allow only two bottles. You can actually bring in as many as you like per US customs but then you will pay the tax on anything after 12, which is only 5% and most agents do not want to do the paperwork. You also have the burden of proving you are not a reseller of these wines.

Live dogs and cats with health certificates are just fine also. I bought  Pierre (my Bouledog Francaise (sp?)) in Paris. He rode back in fist class with me on Air France, which is very dog friendly as is most of France .

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Here are the appropriate quotes from the official Government websites specifically addressing this issue:

From APHIS:

USDA, APHIS, places limits on agricultural items brought into the United States from foreign countries because many items can harbor foreign animal or plant pests and diseases that could seriously damage America’s crops, livestock, pets, and the environment.

APHIS requires that travelers entering the United States from a foreign country declare all:

Fruits

Vegetables

Plants and plant products

Meat and meat products

Fish and fish products

Animals, birds, and eggs

From Customs/Border Patrol:

Many fruits and vegetables are either prohibited from entering the United States or require an import permit. Every fruit or vegetable must be declared to the Customs officer and must be presented for inspection, no matter how free of pests it appears to be. Failure to declare all food products can result in civil penalties. Meats, fish, livestock, poultry, and their by-products are either prohibited or restricted from entering the United States, depending on the animal disease condition in the country of origin. Fresh meat and fish is generally prohibited from most countries. Canned, cured, or dried meat is severely restricted from most countries. Bakery items and all cured cheeses are generally admissible. You should contact the U.S. Department of Agriculture, Animal Plant Health Inspection Services for more detailed information

The key here is NO fresh meat or fish of any kind. I suppose flight crew is treatly a bit more loosely than other passengers.

[raisab]

The cheeses are really no problem whatsoever. I bring raw milk in all the time. It must be aged 60 days but I have NEVER had a customs agent ask. Foie Gras can also be brought in legally as long as it is cooked. Fowl of any kind (cooked), Fish and crustaceans raw and uncooked. I have never brought a live one in. All forms of mushrooms are legal. Lettuce is legal. Fresh cut flowers are also fine.

I bring Foie Gras in and since I am crew I actually must list my items. I have brought foie gras cru but have declared it simply as foie gras. (i am not suggesting anyone do this but cru and cooked look the same to me).

Wine is iffy. Some states like Texas are very stringent and allow only two bottles. You can actually bring in as many as you like per US customs but then you will pay the tax on anything after 12, which is only 5% and most agents do not want to do the paperwork. You also have the burden of proving you are not a reseller of these wines.

Live dogs and cats with health certificates are just fine also. I bought  Pierre (my Bouledog Francaise (sp?)) in Paris. He rode back in fist class with me on Air France, which is very dog friendly as is most of France .

←

Here are the appropriate quotes from the official Government websites specifically addressing this issue:

From APHIS:

USDA, APHIS, places limits on agricultural items brought into the United States from foreign countries because many items can harbor foreign animal or plant pests and diseases that could seriously damage America’s crops, livestock, pets, and the environment.

APHIS requires that travelers entering the United States from a foreign country declare all:

Fruits

Vegetables

Plants and plant products

Meat and meat products

Fish and fish products

Animals, birds, and eggs

From Customs/Border Patrol:

Many fruits and vegetables are either prohibited from entering the United States or require an import permit. Every fruit or vegetable must be declared to the Customs officer and must be presented for inspection, no matter how free of pests it appears to be. Failure to declare all food products can result in civil penalties. Meats, fish, livestock, poultry, and their by-products are either prohibited or restricted from entering the United States, depending on the animal disease condition in the country of origin. Fresh meat and fish is generally prohibited from most countries. Canned, cured, or dried meat is severely restricted from most countries. Bakery items and all cured cheeses are generally admissible. You should contact the U.S. Department of Agriculture, Animal Plant Health Inspection Services for more detailed information

The key here is NO fresh meat or fish of any kind. I suppose flight crew is treatly a bit more loosely than other passengers.

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No, fresh fish is permitted. Don't take my word for it, talk with the customs guy next time you come through. Some thing may be restricted, but I know of none. Crew has MORE prohibitions than your average Joe Schmoe traveler. They have to word it vaguely like this to make their job easier. I am in Paris right now, I will check again tomorrow, but I am 100% sure on this.

I don't see where you see a complete prohibition on fish. It says there are restrictions, but I challenge you to tell me what they are. Flight Crews are fined $2000 or so on infractions, so why would we be treated more loosely? Sorry, but your key points are wrong. And please do not take this as a peronal attack and I won't either.

Edited December 12, 2005 by raisab (log)

[menton1]

No, I feel nothing personal here. I think your issue is with the Customs/Border Patrol. If they are wrong, you should get them to upgrade their website. They do take you around in circles, where they say to check APHIS, and then APHIS says to check with Customs/Border patrol.

Those beagles are very very cute, though.

[Bux]

Margaret hit it on the nail when she noted she had no faith in the consistency of enforcement or knowledge of the latest rules by local inspectors. You can play it safe, or risk loss of expensive products.

[raisab]

I went through customs again today. I did ask about the fish and was informed that there is no prohibtion on it....well at least today. I had listed caviar on my crew decs and was questioned on that as certain types of caviar are being restricted right now. I asked the agent where we could get updated information, his reply was 'I don't know'. Apparently they get updates but there are no set rules, as something like mache lettuce can be brought in from France but not from England.

Today I brought in and declared, cheese, wine, duck saucisson, smoked duck breast, caviar, creme fraiche, and foie gras. The only question was about the caviar.

The website is very vague, I am going to dig some more and see if I can't get some publication or access to their lists. There are a few agents I have become fiendly with.

[John Talbott]

I went through  customs again today. I did ask about the fish and was informed that there is no prohibtion on it....well at least today. I had listed caviar on my crew decs and was questioned on that as certain types of caviar are being restricted right now. I asked the agent where we could get updated information, his reply was 'I don't know'.

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I am pretty sure I saw something on French TV that said sturgeon were greatly over-harvested and endangered in several areas and Googling it found this article in the NYT by Cornelia Dean about 6 weeks ago (Oct 29) entitled "U.S. Broadens Ban on Caviar to Include Black Sea Basin." My guess then is that it's a conservation rather than a health issue.

[menton1]

Apparently they get updates but there are no set rules, as something like mache lettuce can be brought in from France but not from England.

It's a shame that our rules now are such a joke. These guys, as has been said before, basically just "wing it". It's really a shame, because, as well as being confusing and anxiety provoking, it really shows that APHIS is useless, and that our overall health as a nation is just not really important. It just sounds good on the website.

[little ms foodie]

I'm heading to Paris next week and then Russia after that so I'd love to see the updated lists. I generally fib a bit about what I'm carrying back because although I may have read it to be ok, different customs agents tell me it's not. <sigh>

[bleudauvergne]

Has anyone tried printing out regulations from the website and presenting it if an agent gets picky? At one point I was scared I wouldn't get my cheeses in and had the fromagere print me up a certificate confirming the cheese had been aged 60 days. I never had to present it, though, because it turns out they didn't want to inspect anything when I was going through.

[raisab]

I was scared I wouldn't be able to bring my puppy in. I had all the paperwork required including a special health certificate from a vet in Paris. Do you know what they looked at, nothing! Not even my cute litttle dog!