Remodeling the Perlow Kitchen

[lizziee]

It will cost twice what you thought and take longer than 2 months. Where will you eat?

Actually we have an exact bill... we paid for it in advance. And I hope it doesnt take longer than that. We're eating in the basement, we plan to cook with the outdoor grill a lot, and eat out.

Just thought I would remind you!!!!!!

[Jason Perlow]

You don't need to remind us. Actually, about half the kitchen is unpaid and we don't have to pay it off until next June, since its on the Expo credit card.

My grandfather did general contracting for over 30 years and told me that to take over 4 months for a kitchen remodel like ours is "unconscionable", to use his exact words.

Needless to say, there were a lot of extenuating circumstances that were totally out of our control that contributed to these delays which we are not at all happy with.

[Rachel Perlow]

Just thought I would remind you!!!!!!

Uh, lizziee, I did acknowledge that in my previous post. Why did you feel the need to point it out again?

[jhlurie]

Needless to say, there were a lot of extenuating circumstances that were totally out of our control that contributed to these delays which we are not at all happy with.

And if Depot tries pointing out those "extenuating circumstances" as an excuse, you should slam the hell out of them. When one thing goes wrong, its a misfortune. When two things go wrong, its a warning signal. Three--a definite pattern worthy of complaint, and four... an unforgiveable breach. Then again, I know you've done this mental math yourself already!

The mere fact that you had weeks of waiting time after one task was "done" before they would submit your order for the next part--putting you on the bottom of a "list" for the next part to be manufactured or shipped... that alone probably added three or four weeks between various orders, right? It's the waiting that killed more than the stuff that was broken.

Ah, well. I saw what it looked like on Saturday though--it does finally look like a real kitchen, disregarding the ceiling, I mean.

[Rachel Perlow]

As I said, I'd prefer we didn't discuss these things online until we resolve our issues with the vendor.

[snowangel]

Rachael, what kind of kitchen floor did you have in the old kitchen? Who removed it? Did you replace sub-floor?

I'm busy removing the old flooring in my kitchen (in preparation for laying new ceramic tile), and it is a real bitch. I really hate to use two of the most recommended ideas -- chemical solvents and sanding. I don't want the dust or the fumes. So, it's me and a scraper, and it's taking forever.

[GordonCooks]

Rachael, what kind of kitchen floor did you have in the old kitchen?  Who removed it?  Did you replace sub-floor?

I'm busy removing the old flooring in my kitchen (in preparation for laying new ceramic tile), and it is a real bitch.  I really hate to use two of the most recommended ideas -- chemical solvents and sanding.  I don't want the dust or the fumes.  So, it's me and a scraper, and it's taking forever.

Don't even bother trying to remove the old crap. Look into tearing up the entire subfloor (down to the luan) and putting down new plywood. When I tiled the kitchen in my new digs- I had carpet over pad over linoleum to deal with. It was just easier than trying to clean all the old glue an crap.

[lizziee]

Just thought I would remind you!!!!!!

Uh, lizziee, I did acknowledge that in my previous post. Why did you feel the need to point it out again?

Rachel,

I'm sorry. It was meant as a joke, but remodeling nightmares are no joke. It's just that I've been there myself.

[snowangel]

Rachel, as we prepare for at least two weeks without a kitchen, I need some advice. We will have fridge, micro, toaster oven downstairs in basement. There is a sink. I have a couple of bookshelves for supplies, and two big tables.

Grilling is an iffy proposition right now; it's been snowing off and on for a few days.

Cooking advice needed -- successes and pitfalls -- please! Or, should we just plan to eat out a lot? (I have three kids; if it were just Paul and I this would be a lot easier.)

[Rachel Perlow]

Rachel, what kind of kitchen floor did you have in the old kitchen?  Who removed it?  Did you replace sub-floor?

We had ceramic tile before (and after). The contractors removed the tile and the plywood to which it was attached. Then laid new plywood and tiled over that. Here are some pictures of the progression (click to see full picture):

Rippin' up the tile

I don't seem to have a picture of the before plywood, but here's the subfloor.

And, here is the new tile being installed, you can see the new plywood behind Jose.

[Rachel Perlow]

Rachel, as we prepare for at least two weeks without a kitchen, I need some advice.  We will have fridge, micro, toaster oven downstairs in basement.  There is a sink.  I have a couple of bookshelves for supplies, and two big tables.

Grilling is an iffy proposition right now; it's been snowing off and on for a few days.  

Cooking advice needed -- successes and pitfalls -- please!  Or, should we just plan to eat out a lot?  (I have three kids; if it were just Paul and I this would be a lot easier.)

Our situation is different from yours in that it is just the two of us, so we did eat out a lot. With three kids I'm sure your budget and time concerns won't allow for that as frequently. It sounds like we had a similar set up for an alternate kitchen. However, without the grilling/side burner, you may want to get an electric hot plate or propane burner to suppliment yours. A crock pot may also be helpful, as would an electric kettle.

Prepare and freeze some items now, in forms reheatable in your alternate kitchen. Meatloaves freeze well in both the raw (whole) and cooked (packaged in individucal servings) form. Defrost overnight and cook or reheat in your toaster oven. Pasta sauces freeze great, but I found cooking pasta to be a problem. The water took a longer time to boil outdoors and it being fall/winter, I wouldn't recommend you try. Instead, prepare and freeze some pasta casseroles now, like lasagna and ziti. Don't freeze unsauced pasta, it doesn't work. Basically, treat this like any other cook ahead situation. Cookie dough: prepare and freeze in a tube shape, cut & bake small batches in the toaster oven, on parchment paper.

You could even go the whole OAMC route (that's Once a Month Cooking). You prepare your menu for a month (or two or three), do all the shopping, cooking, packaging and freezing over a 2-3 day period. Defrost what you are planning on eating the night before. When it comes to meal time all you have to prepare is a salad and/or veggie. Remember to package keeping in mind you won't have a full oven when it comes time to heating.

Cold dishes work well, like big salads with some cooked meat added, serve with some bread, it's a meal. Ditto big sub sandwiches. Buy precooked things, like rotisserie chickens, at the supermarket - use as a hot dinner, leftovers added to salad.

Things that cook or reheat well in a microwave: eggs, veggies, soup, leftovers, defrost things (brown in toaster oven), rice

Things to do with a toaster oven: toast (bread, bagels, rolls, croutons, bruscetta), cook small casseroles & frozen dinners, frozen pizzas (homemade of course), small batches of cookies, brownies.

Finally, encourage your kids to spend lots of time with their friends. Not only will they be out of your hair during construction, they'll probably get invited over for supper.

[snowangel]

Thanks for the suggestions. I mentioned our project at a church meeting last night, and this morning, a fellow church member appeared at my doorstep with a little kit she and her friends have passed around while they've remodeled, and it included an electric skillet and a single electric burner, and lots of disposable baking pans.

Then, when I was at ARC today offloading stuff I no longer wanted, they had smaller pyrex casserole dishes for $.50/each, so I bought several, and am in the midst of a marathon pasta casseroles.

I do have a crock pot, and soup is really popular in our house, and I have I just froze a boatload of chicken stock, and I have really easy access to good bread.

And, my kids really like refried beans and cheese in tortillas, which is super easy. I also have a nice electric griddle, and pancakes are popular. In fact, when I made pancakes the other morning, I doubled the batch and froze a bunch of them.

And, this remodel has allowed me to justify retiring our old small toaster oven that I really, really hated. I replaced it this morning with a nice, new Cuisinart one that will do 6 slices of toast, and is quite a bit "taller" than my old one, so will hold a casserole, pan of brownies nicely (they say it will hold a chicken). And, I got a great deal on the new one. I also stocked up on thick paper plates (I'm really going to miss my dishwasher)

Finally, totally unrelated to this thread, Diana recently ate out at a Greek restaurant and fell in love with Green lemon/egg soup. I know that Jason has raved about this before; do you or he have a good recipe or method that you would be willing to share?

Again, thanks so much for the suggestions.

[mikec]

"However, without the grilling/side burner, you may want to get an electric hot plate or propane burner to suppliment yours. "

Rachel,

I've been following this thread for a while now. Hopefully in the next year or two, my wife and I will redo our kitchen and dining room. Thus it has been interesting following the ups and downs of your remodeling. A few things...

The quote above...I'm not clear on it. Are you suggesting bringing a propane tank into the house? I doubt that is safe. But maybe I'm misreading you.

The other thing is that you seemed to like Charlie and his crew. However it seems that you had problems with the staff at HD. Hindsight being 20/20, if you end up doing any future work could you hire Charlie directly? Would this save you any money or hassle?

I hope that the job is done soon. My wife and I are about to start on finishing the basement in 2 weeks. The guy we are using is finishing up a friends place. He does good work and is very reasonably priced. However he seems to take his time on the job thus I'm bracing for a 4 week project to take 8.

[jhlurie]

"However, without the grilling/side burner, you may want to get an electric hot plate or propane burner to suppliment yours. "

Rachel,

I've been following this thread for a while now. Hopefully in the next year or two, my wife and I will redo our kitchen and dining room. Thus it has been interesting following the ups and downs of your remodeling. A few things...

The quote above...I'm not clear on it. Are you suggesting bringing a propane tank into the house? I doubt that is safe. But maybe I'm misreading you.

Another version of this quote was ORIGINALLY written by Rachel in the middle of the summer, I believe (she's sort of reiterating something she wrote way back at the beginning of this, I think). But she's not necessarily talking about taking anything inside. I mean even in late October weather, its not THAT cold out! (especially if you live further south than Rachel)

Then again... I've also known people who had indoor burners built into their fireplaces., and got around the renovation issue that way. Usually they were fed by central gas lines though...

[Rachel Perlow]

mikec - No, I'm not talking about an outside propane tank. Perhaps I'm not calling them the right thing. I'm talking about the small portable burners that caterers use at omelet stations, so I know they can be used indoors. Maybe they use butane tanks, not propane? The cans of fuel are about the same size as a can of hairspray and fit inside the portable burner.

jhlurie - I realized snowangel lived north of us, her sig says Minneapolis.

snowangel - Sounds like you belong to a great church! Since you have an electric burner, you won't need the gas-fuel portable burner I mentioned. BTW - what is an ARC? Re: the mini-casseroles - line the oven safe casseroles with aluminum foil, freeze them in the casserole dish. When hard, remove the food, wrap in additional foil or freezer bags and you can continue to use the casserole dish. Use the same casserole dish when it is time to defrost/reheat the food - it'll fit perfectly! Making the extra pancakes was a great idea, they reheat great in a toaster oven. I wonder if you bought the same kind of toaster oven we did recently? Here's a couple of threads about that: Thread One - when the old one died and Thread Two - discussions about toasters & toaster ovens. Re: avgolemono soup, I don't have a recipe, we usually get it at Greek restaurants. But it is basically egg drop soup with lemon added at the end.

[snowangel]

[bTW - what is an ARC?

ARC is like Goodwill or Salvation Army, but their stores are much nicer, and they support people -- locally -- with disabilities like my daughter Heidi.

Thanks for the reminder about lining casseroles with foil.

I got a lot done today on my floor demo project, and I think I am on target for setting up kitchen downstairs on Friday, and should be able to start tiling on Saturday. The bright note was that a guy called me from Home Depot today. Although I am doing this remodel myself (keeping cupboards and most of the counters), I do want to replace two pieces of counter -- on either side of the stove (what's there has decorative posts nailed in), and when I was at HD, I asked if they ever have "scrap" silestone. He told me today that they have two pieces of silestone -- in the color I adore and will look great with the other things in the kitchen -- and I can have them for 1/6 the "normal" price. The cost, he led me to believe, is to cover making them the exact size I want.

I did chuckle when I read that you can start moving things back in when the painting is done. When my folks redid their kitchen, as my mom moved stuff back in, the first thing she noticed was that none of it looked "appropriate" in her beatiful new space, so she went out and immediately bought new linens, some new dishes, some new pots and pans, and even knives (like they show!). My dad commented that when he was figuring out what the project would cost, he hadn't figured in the kitchen equipment!

[snowangel]

[i wonder if you bought the same kind of toaster oven we did recently?

Yes, but without the convection. I couldn't justify the convection since I bought a new range last year with a convection oven. Seemed like overkill, and I'd have had to do more justifying to Paul. Especially since I was the one who started demoing the kitchen without even talking to him about remodeling it.

[Rachel Perlow]

Fortunately, most of my stuff is really nice. We are planning on getting some new pots & pans. But instead of going really high-end pretty stuff, we will probably be getting some very functional pieces from the restaurant supply store.

[mikec]

mikec - No, I'm not talking about an outside propane tank. Perhaps I'm not calling them the right thing. I'm talking about the small portable burners that caterers use at omelet stations, so I know they can be used indoors. Maybe they use butane tanks, not propane? The cans of fuel are about the same size as a can of hairspray and fit inside the portable burner.

Rachel,

That sounds better. I think that what you are describing is butane, but I'm not sure. I just had this mental picture of lugging the Weber down to the basement.

Mike

[snowangel]

If it's any consolation, my remodel (I'm doing 70% myself, 20% added by my husband, and 10% by a kind neighbor who helps me out when I need more than two hands on a weekday) is taking about 3-4 times longer than I anticipated...Oh, the nightmares one uncovers when one "unwraps" one's kitchen. I believe that the previous kitchen remodel was done in a rather haphazard manner. I won't even get into the portion of framing that was done with yardsticks!.

On another note, my kitchen sink faucet is crapping. I've hated the thing, so replacing it was on my list (it was on the list of replace after floor, baseboards, new light fixtures, etc. were in, but I'm moving it up on the list). So, plumbing time, and my sink (which is fine) has this sprayer thingee that I've never used, so I have an extra hole. I'm thinking of putting in a reverse osmosis (sp?) water purification thing in. Have you done this? If so, how did you select the brand/model you chose? I may also post this on another board.

[Rachel Perlow]

No, I didn't install a water purifier at the sink (there is one built into the fridge), so sorry I can't help you.

Yardsticks??? You mean the stick used the measure out 36"? Oy. Makes the slanted 2x4's in my walls seem like nothing!

[snowangel]

Yardsticks??? You mean the stick used the measure out 36"? Oy. Makes the slanted 2x4's in my walls seem like nothing!

Yes, stacks of yardsticks taped (!) together to equal depth of 2x4. Some of the drywall was 1/2" (sides and above windows), some was 3/8" (under windows), which explained the wainscoating.

Oh, and I forgot about the hollow door that sliced up to make framing.

Fortunately, this was only on the "addition" part of the kitchen which was done about 20 years ago. The rest of the house is late '40's plaster. Built like the proverbial brick shit house, and in excellent condition.

[stefanyb]

Hey Rachel,

Check out this piece in the NYTimes about two kitchen renovations HERE

[Rachel Perlow]

Just in case you all were wondering what's been going on... The first contractor has been replaced with Pete (see cabinet installer a few pages back). He was continuously MIA and we got fed up as did EXPO. I still don't want to go into it too much because we're negotiating to get some $ back because of all the delays. But meanwhile, they got Pete (who has set up his own contracting business) in to finish up the punch list items. This list is getting continuously shorter and shorter - he should be finished in the next day or so. The kitchen will be painted next week and then I'll get some more pics up.

[GordonCooks]

If it's any consolation, my remodel (I'm doing 70% myself, 20% added by my husband, and 10% by a kind neighbor who helps me out when I need more than two hands on a weekday) is taking about 3-4 times longer than I anticipated...Oh, the nightmares one uncovers when one "unwraps" one's kitchen.  I believe that the previous kitchen remodel was done in a rather haphazard manner.  I won't even get into the portion of framing that was done with yardsticks!.

On another note, my kitchen sink faucet is crapping.  I've hated the thing, so replacing it was on my list (it was on the list of replace after floor, baseboards, new light fixtures, etc. were in, but I'm moving it up on the list).  So, plumbing time, and my sink (which is fine) has this sprayer thingee that I've never used, so I have an extra hole.  I'm thinking of putting in a reverse osmosis (sp?) water purification thing in.  Have you done this?  If so, how did you select the brand/model you chose?  I may also post this on another board.

I converted to a sprayer within the faucet. I bought a soap dispenser to fill the extra hole ($ 10.00)