Fresh/Stuffed Pasta & Gnocchi--Cook-Off 13

[Mallet]

Re: flour types. In "Simple Italian Cooking" Mario Batali recommends blending 80% cake flour and 20% all purpose flour to approximate 00 flour when making fresh pasta (he also mentions a protein content of between 8 and 11 %).

[MobyP]

I wouldn't freeze it - but I don't know that you couldn't. It would just take much more time to defrost the dough, than it would to make another batch, and I'm lazy enough to go for the quick option.

You know, I haven't found a city in the states (or at least on the two coasts where I lived) where I couldn't find '00' flour. Any self-respecting Italian deli should have it, though sometimes you need to track them down.

[Chufi]

OK, so I did the pressed leaf thing yesterday. I made a stuffing from mushrooms, dried porcini, and leeks. Pressed a tiny parsley leaf between two sheets of pasta to make the top sheet. Here's what they looked like raw (this pic was actually taken this morning of some of the leftover pasta, that's why it looks rather leathery)

it looked beautiful, my husband said they were like fossils .It was quite fiddly to make them. You have to put little piles of filling on one sheet with the exact distance between them that the leaves on the other sheet have between them otherwise the leaves don't end up exactly on top of the stuffing.

Anyway, it was a bit disappointing that when they were cooked, the visual effect sort of wore off :

This was fun to do but not something you would do often I think. The stuffing, however, was one of the best sofar. Mmm porcini!!

Edited September 11, 2005 by Chufi (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Klary, can you give us rough ratios in your filling? I was thinking about making something along those lines, but I always fear wet fillings with fresh mushrooms.

[lexy]

Does anyone know how to make flavoured/coloured pastas (i.e. the red tomato and green spinach ones you can buy dried in stores)? I'm guessing you just add some spinach water or tomato juice to the dough, and adjust the flour accordingly …

[JasonTrue]

Some of those are actually just food coloring, and some are actually from food sources.

I sometimes color neri-miso with mortar-and-pestle-smashed blanched spinach. The same should work for pasta. You could theoretically use any blanched greens. For red, I would try the double- or triple-concentrated tomato paste that comes in a tube. And you could always use squid ink, which is classic. Most commercial vegetable-sourced red pastas are using the juice of boiled beets, even if they have some tomato in them, probably because tomato will eventually turn brownish.

However, tomato juice or spinach water will likely not contribute enough color to do anything other than turn your pasta a different shade of yellow or hinted pink.

Does anyone know how to make flavoured/coloured pastas (i.e. the red tomato and green spinach ones you can buy dried in stores)? I'm guessing you just add some spinach water or tomato juice to the dough, and adjust the flour accordingly …

←

Edited September 11, 2005 by JasonTrue (log)

[Chufi]

Klary, can you give us rough ratios in your filling? I was thinking about making something along those lines, but I always fear wet fillings with fresh mushrooms.

←

I used 200 grams of mushrooms, the white part of 1 fat leek, 1 shallot, 1 clove of garlic, a couple of pieces of dried porcini. About 1 tablespoon of parmesan was added after I blended the whole thing.

The leeks, shallots, garlic and reconstituted porcini were sauteed in butter until soft. I dry-fried the mushrooms before adding them to the blender. Dry-frying mushrooms is my favorite way of treating them before adding them to any dish that calls for concentrated mushroom flavor:

Put mushrooms (whole is best, but you can chop them up if you are in a hurry) in a large frying pan. They should be in a single layer. Don't add any fat. Put pan on high heat and fry the mushrooms over high heat until they are completely brown, collapsed, and wrinkled. Shake the pan occasianally (which is when you will hear that funny squeaky sound of the evaporating liquid).

It's amazing how long they can take over high heat before burning. When they're done, they are dry - so you don't have to worry about the wet filling

[Susan in FL]

A side note:

Ahhh, Klari! That's the tried and true method I use for mushrooms almost all the time -- for whatever. I never applied a term to it, so thanks! As a side of sauteed mushrooms with steak for example, I "dry-fry" them and add butter at the end before serving. It's how I cook peeled shrimp for several dishes, as well. It's amazing how good some things can be just cooked in their own essence and that's all.

[Susan in FL]

"We" made pasta last night. I was thrilled! It turned out perfect.

I put we in quotes because Russ did most of it. I probably would not have participated in this cook-off if he hadn't been the one to make the pasta. I become afraid of failure when it comes to anything that requires kneading.

So anyway, we got out my late parents' 50-plus year-old pasta maker, conveniently hooked it on to the end of our kitchen counter/bar, and Russ went to work. He used half semolina flour and half unbleached all purpose flour, eggs, cold water, olive oil and salt. He mixed it up in a bowl, and kneaded it right on the counter... using no flour for dusting whatsoever, throughout the process! What was up with that, we don't know.

We planned on spaghetti or fettuccine with a very, very simple marinara because we wanted to feature the pasta and enjoy its taste. Here are some action shots.

We experimented a little.

It ended up being fettuccine.

I made a clean-out-the-fridge salad, to go with it.

We enjoyed the dinner and the success.

Thanks to all for the lessons and discussion. We're looking forward to making pasta again soon -- maybe ravioli!

[Smithy]

Klary, can you give us rough ratios in your filling? I was thinking about making something along those lines, but I always fear wet fillings with fresh mushrooms.

←

... Dry-frying mushrooms is my favorite way of treating them before adding them to any dish that calls for concentrated mushroom flavor:

Put mushrooms (whole is best, but you can chop them up if you are in a hurry) in a large frying pan. They should be in a single layer. Don't add any fat. Put pan on high heat and fry the mushrooms over high heat until they are completely brown, collapsed, and wrinkled. Shake the pan occasianally (which is when you will hear that funny squeaky sound of the evaporating liquid).

It's amazing how long they can take over high heat before burning. When they're done, they are dry - so you don't have to worry about the wet filling

←

This tip, alone, is worth its weight in the time and trouble I've put into cooking since I discovered eGullet. I've never heard of dry-frying mushrooms before tonight, much less tried it. The aroma was fabulous, the flavor even better, and the squeaks were high entertainment unto themselves.

Thanks, Klary!

Edited September 13, 2005 by Smithy (log)

[Smithy]

Tonight I made ravioli stuffed with braised beef with sauteed onions, dry-fried mushrooms (THANK YOU, CHUFI!) and assorted seasonings, in a mustard cream sauce. Mindful of the past lessons and MobyP's comments both here and on the eGCA stuffed pasta Q&A, I made the dough stiffer than last time around.

I think I may be at the point where it would help immensely if someone were physically at my elbow, saying "Here, poke this. Now try that. See what I mean?" Alas, all I have are photos and suspicions. (Sounds like a murder mystery, doesn't it? ) I just have to keep experimenting. The good news is that it all is edible, and far better than edible - just not the quality I'm after.

My dough was stiffer than last time. It rolled out pretty well, but it tore in places it hadn't before. I think that means it was still wet! Yes or no? See below for photos.

I rolled it out to #8 on the Atlas, being more daring than last time, but I ended up with tears in the top layer of the ravioli that had to be patched with double layers. Not all tore. When you look at the photos, you'll see where some stuffing showed through and some didn't.

The stuffing was braised beef ribs started last night, allowed to rest, defatted, recooked. In the meantime I sauteed some onion, ground up some horseradish and celery, and dry-fried some portabellas. It all went into the food processor and then was adjusted for seasoning (a bit of Worcestershire here, a touch of pepper there, etc.)

The beef, chopped and simmering the second time:

The portabellas, dry-fried (what a marvelous truk) and quartered:

The stuffed pasta before cooking:

MobyP, or anyone else, does this texture look right? It isn't as flaccid as last time, but still may not be as firm as Moby's in the course photos. You can see in a couple of ravioli where I had to double the dough; that's a patch.

Dinner! Beef ravioli with mustard cream sauce, scattered with chives. Ground pepper came after the picture. This was supposed to be on a bed of greens, but it got too late and too disorganized. The sauce broke, too.

Looks pretty good, in an amateurish way, doesn't it? It tasted pretty good, too. There were a couple of quibbles with it. Aside from the missing bed of greens, the sauce was too oily. The first helping was fine, the second helping we could both tell it was oily. Didn't stop us from finishing it off, though.

The other problems were more subtle. Russ said the pasta was soggy, I thought it didn't have the firm pillowy shape, with the wonderful al dente resistance followed by a firm tasty filling. See how flat and rumpled the ravioli are? Is that because the filling was too lumpy, there were air pockets, the pasta was too limp, or something else? Would these be more firm if they'd been packed with the use of a mold?

The broken sauce annoys me, but that's beside the point, although it's related to being too oily. I'm more intent on the pasta right now.

I have in mind an ethereal meal I had recently at an Italian restaurant. A number of us had ravioli of various types: smoked salmon, some beefy thing, lobster. In every case the little pillows were perfectly al dente: just a slight resistance, then the filling was revealed in all its smooth perfection. In every case the sauce was the perfect balance. I want to know how to do that, starting with those nice symmetrical fat pillows. Help!

Edited September 13, 2005 by Smithy (log)

[torakris]

these pictures are driving me crazy...

I must give this another shot!

[MobyP]

What recipe did you use for the pasta?

I also use the Atlas, and level 8. In fact, here is my version of the short rib ravioli using exactly that...

I was actually thinking that I should move to level 9.

The only thing that I have found with the Atlas is that you should run your finger underneath the rollers every now and then. Small grains of flour tend to build up, and you have to clear them out, or they can tear the pasta as it rolls through.

I wouldn't worry about a few tears. You're learning more each time you make these things, and you'll improve as you go along. When I first started, I would lose 1 in 5 or 6 to rips, or falling apart in the boiling water, or for some other reason. Now it's rare if I lose 1 in 20 or 30. As I said before, it's only experience.

[Adam Balic]

A stuffed pasta that is almost English...."Spinach roll" (will look up the Italian name later.

Basically, a thin sheet of potato gnocchi dough (lighted with a pinch of baking soda) is rolled out on a pudding cloth and covered with filling, in this case procuitto, spinach and cheeses.

This is then rolled up to enclose the filling.

Boiled for ~ 40 minutes, and allowed to completely cool.

It is then sliced and browned in the oven with sage butter and parmesan.

Pretty simple and it can be made will ahead of time. It is also nice when stuffed with left over ragu or other meat stews.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Adam Balic (log)

[MobyP]

Adam - that looks fantastic.

[Adam Balic]

It would be better if it was a suet crust and filled with liver and bacon .

[Mottmott]

A side note:

Ahhh, Klari! That's the tried and true method I use for mushrooms almost all the time -- for whatever.  I never applied a term to it, so thanks!  As a side of sauteed mushrooms with steak for example, I "dry-fry"  them and add butter at the end before serving.  It's how I cook peeled shrimp for several dishes, as well.  It's amazing how good some things can be just cooked in their own essence and that's all.

←

I consider duxelles a pantry (freezer) staple. You can make them in really large batches Once made, they're a quick addition to any recipe calling for a mushroom/shallot mix. The last time I made ravioli I simply added my at-the-ready duxelles to some ricotta for a quick to mix filling. If you freeze them thin and flat in a ziplock bag, it's easy to break of as little as a spoonful of them to add to whatever you want as well as larger quantities.

I also use them, mixed with gruyere, herbs wrapped in phyllo for nibbles.

[Smithy]

What recipe did you use for the pasta?

I also use the Atlas, and level 8. In fact, here is my version of the short rib ravioli using exactly that...

I was actually thinking that I should move to level 9.

The only thing that I have found with the Atlas is that you should run your finger underneath the rollers every now and then. Small grains of flour tend to build up, and you have to clear them out, or they can tear the pasta as it rolls through.

I wouldn't worry about a few tears. You're learning more each time you make these things, and you'll improve as you go along. When I first started, I would lose 1 in 5 or 6 to rips, or falling apart in the boiling water, or for some other reason. Now it's rare if I lose 1 in 20 or 30. As I said before, it's only experience.

←

I used 400g unbleached pastry flour, 4 large eggs, 1 T EVOO, pinch of salt, and a spot of semolina for dusting.

It looks like my dough is still more limp. Yours has to be contracting somewhat to get those upturned edges. Is that a protein content thing? Still, the filled parts of both sets show voids in the filling and places where the dough collapses or puffs up to follow the contours of the filling. Maybe I'm closer than I think. Next time I'll try all-purpose flour instead of pastry flour for the slightly higher protein content, and see what that does.

The tears were all little pinholes that sprang when I was tamping the top layer down over the bottom. There weren't as many as the last time - you're right, I'm learning! - but I still had to double the top layer of quite a few. None of them sprang leaks in the pot, anyway.

I keep thinking about the non-lumpy, full-stuffed pillows of ravioli I had at that restaurant. Russ wondered whether they'd been baked instead of boiled. Is that possible? Or, as I'm starting to think, does having a mold make all the difference in the world for getting a well-stuffed raviolo? Those little pillows had minimal edges, and as I recall were roughly 2" diameter and 1/2" thick. I wish I'd taken a picture.

Meanwhile, there's Adam:

It is then sliced and browned in the oven with sage butter and parmesan.

Pretty simple and it can be made will ahead of time. It is also nice when stuffed with left over ragu or other meat stews.

←

That is thunderstrikingly gorgeous even discounting the special appeal of a dish that can be made well ahead. After the last couple of nights, the advance preparation carries extra weight.

[Adam Balic]

Thanks. That name is "Rotolo di Patate e Spinici" and is based on a recipe from Anna del Conte. I should repeat that it has to be made ahead of time so that it can be successfully sliced.

[MobyP]

I think mine have slightly less air around the filling, so the seal around the edge will do that kind of thing. Also, perhaps, less cooking time. Yours look great, btw.

[little ms foodie]

as far as the colored pastas we have made them with spinach. You blanch the spinach and then chop it really fine. Then you mix your eggs into in before adding the eggs to your flour. I'm sure you could do that with other greens/herbs or roasted peppers, etc.

[lexy]

as far as the colored pastas we have made them with spinach. You blanch the spinach and then chop it really fine. Then you mix your eggs into in before adding the eggs to your flour. I'm sure you could do that with other greens/herbs or roasted peppers, etc.

←

Aha, thanks!

As others have mentioned, this pasta-making is addictive! I made fettucini the other night, and used the leftover scraps of dough to made deformed little pasta shapes for minestrone soup. I have to say, I've never been a huge fan of pasta itself - I like it mainly as a vehicle for butter, salt, sauce etc, but homemade pasta is good even by itself Since little ms foodie mentioned herbs, I think for my next attempt, I'll try adding some parsley to the dough, since my parsley plants are getting out of hand.

Oh, and for those having trouble using pasta machines: you might try simply rolling out the dough and cutting it by hand. I don't have a pasta machine, so that's what I do out of necessity. It probably takes longer, and the finished product isn't as elegant, but it's also pretty hard to go wrong.

Edited to add:

As for freezing, I've only made fresh pasta twice, and I've frozen the extras both times (since I'm only cooking for myself, I usually end up with more dough than I need) The first time, the dough that I froze was incredibly rubbery when defrosted, I could barely roll it out, and it was tough and leathery when cooked. On the other hand, the second time I froze dough, it didn't behave any differently than fresh dough once it had thawed. Not very conclusive, but at least it shows that you can freeze leftover dough successfully.

Edited September 13, 2005 by lexy (log)

[Chufi]

He mixed it up in a bowl, and kneaded it right on the counter...  using no flour for dusting whatsoever, throughout the process!  What was up with that, we don't know.

I also never have to dust. I only use the semolina on my baking trays to stop the ravioli from sticking to the tray. The fettucine looks great Susan. Fettucine is next on my list (it'll be nice not to have to deal with stuffing for a change)

Tonight I made ravioli stuffed with braised beef with sauteed onions, dry-fried mushrooms (THANK YOU, CHUFI!)

you're welcome. The thought of someone across the Atlantic, happily dry-frying mushrooms, just because I happened to mention that trick, really made my day

Thanks. That name is "Rotolo di Patate e Spinici" and is based on a recipe from Anna del Conte. I should repeat that it has to be made ahead of time so that it can be successfully sliced.

←

that looks fantastic. I have recipe somewhere for a very similar Rotolo, only it's made with pastasheets instead of gnocchi dough. But for some reason, cooking something in a cheesecloth scares me. I wonder why!

[Adam Balic]

del Conte mentions that the pasta sheets are more common, but the potato dough is method that her mother prefered. I have stumpy fingers, so I prefer the pasta dough.

Cooking in a cloth is easy, once you master the technique............

[Anna N]

... The thought of someone across the Atlantic, happily dry-frying mushrooms, just because I happened to mention that trick, really made my day

←