dumplings, wontons and noodles

[Ben Hong]

I may be getting a little dumb in my dotage, but you keep asking for authentic ways to make ho fun and then you want to experiment with potato starch, tapioca starch, and all purpose flour!! Ho fun is made with rice flour only. Just like spaghetti made with anything else other than hard durum wheat would not be spaghetti. I can't imagine rice flour spaghetti.

Edited April 24, 2007 by Ben Hong (log)

[takadi]

Well if they are putting boric acid and cake flour into ho fun noodles these days, authenticity is hardly a concern anymore. I was looking for a way "real" chow fun as in the way restaurants make it No where did I mention "authentic" noodles if there is such a thing, and plus to what I am reading, noodles made with only rice flour doesn't hold up in a stir fry.

And of course I'm going to use rice flour. Just mixing in different ingredients for texture.

Ahh sorry I meant cake flour, not mix

Edited April 24, 2007 by takadi (log)

[sheetz]

Well if they are putting boric acid and cake mix into ho fun noodles these days

Um, that's cake "flour" and not cake "mix," which would be truly bizarre. Anyways, I have known quite a few elderly Chinese women who swear by Swansdown cake flour in their dumplings. Few, if any, can utter so much as a word of English, but they can all spot a box of Swansdown flour from a mile away.

[takadi]

Are there any different types of rice flours I could use? What would happen if I used glutinous rice flour?

[sheetz]

Are there any different types of rice flours I could use? What would happen if I used glutinous rice flour?

←

You'd get something very gooey and completely unlike chow fun. That's not to say you couldn't do it, but that's not what you're looking for.

[peony]

If less water is used in the batter of my recipe, the noodle can be stir-fry.

someone had used the CCF like horfun as in the dish wat-tan horfun.

dont think you can use glutinous rice fun to make noodle.

[takadi]

Hi peony, I've been looking at the steamer you use for your rice sheets and it seems so much more convenient than conventional ones they usually sell in the US. Do you know anywhere where they sell those?

[peony]

I have no idea where the steamer is sold in US as I don't live there.

you can use a greased metal plate or even a cake pan over shimmering pot of hot water to make the rice noodle. I know smeone who make the noodle in a microwave too.

the secret ingredient used is wheat starch flour so that the noodle isn't too soft.

without the wheat starch flour the rice noodle turns flabby and mushy.

wheat starch, also know as tang mien fun, is used to make steamed prawn dumplings in dim sum restaurant.

[takadi]

I've been wondering...what's so special about swans down cake flour or cake flour in general that makes it so desirable? Is it the low amounts of gluten compared to other wheat flour? So what if I used all purpose or even semolina flour in the noodles? From what I've read, the purpose of adding wheat flour is to toughen up the noodles, but does the toughening come from the gluten or the fact that wheat just results in a firmer texture in general? If it's because of gluten, wouldn't it just be more logical to add flour with higher gluten content like semolina? That way, I don't have to use as much wheat flour to get the same firmer texture and it would keep the proportion of rice flour higher.

I'm not prepared to do anything like that, but I'm just curious to how flour proteins might affect the final product (which I'm assuming might not be too good since cake flour probably already produces ideal results).

[sheetz]

Sounds like it's the wheat starch and not the wheat gluten that firms up the noodles. Cake flour has a higher proportion of wheat starch than other types of wheat flour, so that's probably why it's used.

[Fred12fred]

The Frugal Gourmet - 3 Ancient cuisines book has a recipe for chuen fun that I've used fairly successfully. I presume you just need to hack them into strips and, voila!, fun!

No nasty boric acid either

[hzrt8w]

The Frugal Gourmet - 3 Ancient cuisines book has a recipe for chuen fun that I've used fairly successfully.  I presume you just need to hack them into strips and, voila!, fun!

←

It sounds like this "chuen fun" is the same as the one described upthread - the one eaten as is, and not for stir-fries. Cheung fun is easier to make at home. The stir-fried kind of rice noodle (Ho Fun), may not be.

[Ben Hong]

I have the same book and I have tried the recipe for cheung fun. It is to be eaten as cheung fun, and it will disintegrate and mush out on you when stir fried.

[takadi]

I bought a dried rice product called "rice flake" from the supermarket. It's a two inch shaped square and made with only rice flour, salt, and water. I used it twice for chow fun and it actually worked pretty well. I didn't have a problem with sogginess at all. In fact, it turned out to be almost crispy and tough at the end. Perhaps my wok was too hot or I didn't cook the noodles enough. It doesn't taste exactly the same as regular ho fun, and it does have a tendency to curl up as well, but it might be a good substitute (once I perfect some techniques)

Edited May 5, 2007 by takadi (log)

[porkfat]

I can't find any good recipes online for Chinese style chewy wheat noodles! It's impossible!

One recipe had me use 2 cups flour and 1/2 cup water. When I ran it through my pasta machine, it came out the other side full of lumps and holes! And that was on the widest setting!

All I want is a simple wheat noodle recipe for soups and stir fries! I don't care to know how to hand pull them. I had really good fresh noodles at a Chinese restaurant in Korea in jajang myeon and jambang. They made them chewy and delicious with a machine and I have no idea what the recipe was!

Can anybody help?

[Gastro888]

What type of flour did you use? Regular wheat? Cake flour?

I think the noodles in jjajjang myeon aren't all wheat - there's gotta be some rice flour or mung bean flour or sweet potato flour in there.

My mom makes dumpling skins with boiling water, not regular cold water. It's not like pasta where you use plain old water. Stirring in boiling water does something to the gluten in whear flour. What, I forgot. Not much help, I'm sorry.

[porkfat]

I got a little further in my search for noodles.

This time I used hot water and a mixture of unbleached all-purpose and cake flour. Then I kneaded the heck out of it and then used my stand mixer to knead it even more. I noticed a difference after a while and the dough got really smooth.

But I think I overkneaded it though as the noodles were soft!

Next I'm going to try experimenting with baking soda as the Chinese use an alkaline solution to add a yellow tint and a different texture to the noodles.

[Gastro888]

Don't overmix. My mom mixes her doughs for dumpling skins just so. You don't want to kill it, just bring it together.

Add some rice flour for a go. Good luck & let us know your results.

[Toliver]

Dry style beef chow fun has probably been my favorite chinese dish since I was 5, and I  want to make this at home somehow. However, I am having a very hard time finding the noodles used for it, at least those of good quality. So I decided that I would actually make it at home.

Does anyone have any recipes I could use to make it at home myself? I have a wok and a steamer tray, some tapioca and rice starch, and that's the extent of what I know what to do. Vietnamese have a dish called "Banh Cuon"  where meats and cloud ear are wrapped in a similar noodle sheet. I'm not sure if that's the same exact recipe as chinese style ho fun noodle, but in the meanwhile, any recipe contributed will be greatly appreciated!!

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On a recent episode of Martin Yan's PBS series "Martin Yan's Chinatowns", he made rice (fun) pancakes in a bamboo steamer. The reason I mention this is because it looked like you could use a similar method to create fun noodles.

He took a glass/Pyrex pie plate and lightly brushed the inside with oil for easy removal of the fun pancake. His fun mixture was water, rice flour and a little bit of wheat flour/starch (consult his book for the actual recipe at your nearest bookstore). He ladled enough of the mixture into the pie plate to just cover the bottom. The batter was quite thin. He steamed it until is was no longer liquid and then added a filling on top of it and made a sort of egg roll/mu shu type "burrito" and steamed that until the insides were cooked through.

In the episode there was a cutaway shot of different fun noodle dishes and I thought I saw what looked like a sheet of fun noodles steamed on a large leaf. If you have enough steamers inserts so you can steam multiple sheets at a time, it seems like it could be worth the effort.

[v. gautam]

Depending on the size of your steamer, I have found that you can use the glass turntable of your [largish?] microwave if it is a smooth one, for a heatproof, large, flat surface to make such noodles and other things in quantity. Great for sticky rice as well.

I have one large smooth one dedicated for steamer use alone, saved from a discarded microvave oven.

gautam

[prasantrin]

I've been searching for a recipe online for recipe for hor fun, but have not yet been successful (neither all ingredients nor proportions can be found!)--does anyone have one to share? I'm thinking I might try my hand at them after I make my sticky rice. I'd like to made noodles that can be stir fried, but I'd settle for noodles that can be rolled.

[Dejah]

I've been searching for a recipe online for recipe for hor fun, but have not yet been successful (neither all ingredients nor proportions can be found!)--does anyone have one to share?  I'm thinking I might try my hand at them after I make my sticky rice.  I'd like to made noodles that can be stir fried, but I'd settle for noodles that can be rolled.

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There's a recipe in Wei-chuan cookbook: Chinese Snacks - revised - by Huang Su-Huei.

Rona: I've sent you a PM.

[hzrt8w]

There's a recipe in Wei-chuan cookbook: Chinese Snacks - revised - by Huang Su-Huei.

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Hor fun is considered a "snack"?

I thought almond cookie is a snack. Beef jerkie is a snack...

Edited December 18, 2007 by hzrt8w (log)

[Dejah]

There's a recipe in Wei-chuan cookbook: Chinese Snacks - revised - by Huang Su-Huei.

←

Hor fun is considered a "snack"?

I thought almond cookie is a snack. Beef jerkie is a snack...

←

Well, the book consists of recipes for dim sum, and I think the title was a result of "lost in translation".

My grandson would eat chow hor fun as a main course AND as a snack!

[Ben Hong]

Strictly speaking, a snack can be "anything" that you eat, but it generally implies informal or hurried setting, or food. Something less than a "full" meal eaten between the"normal" three. Hor fun would definitely fall into the snack category if I were to eat it late in the evening after theatre, or for a quick very late lunch. Depending on the time frame, you can can call it breakfast, lunch or dinner and no one would argue. (Growing up poor, us kids would sometimes call a bag of potato chips and a soda "supper"). It's all about context and circumstance.

There is no loss in translation.

Nuances, my dears, nuances.

Edited December 19, 2007 by Ben Hong (log)