Agar and other alternative gelling agents

[Pam R]

i will try it again to see if I can get the agar to dissolve completely if not I will have to see if I can get some of the Kosher gelatin locally (although, then I don't know if it'll be suitable for the vegetarians of this group).

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The kosher gelatin used in kosher marshmallows is made from fish. I don't use gelatin - generally try to avoid making things with gelatin because of the kashrut issues. But I would assume kosher gelatin is either made from fish or is vegetable based....so depending on the level of vegetarianism, you may be ok.

I think I have to start trying some recipes using the kosher stuff too... time to learn something new.

Umm..the other thing to look into is the ready made fondant that you can buy. At work we have a pail of the stuff that has a hechsher...but I've never looked at the ingredients (I'll try to remember to look tomorrow).

[Pam R]

I ordered some agar agar on Friday and am waiting for it to arrive. Any news on whether it worked in the fondant? What about mousse - anybody every try it?

[Pam R]

After ordering it twice, I finally received some (kosher certified) agar flakes today. I'm ready to start experimenting, but don't know where to begin.

Anybody know how to sub. it when making a mousse? Or do you have any good recipes that use it?

Is there a general rule-of-thumb when using agar agar instead of gelatin?

Thanks!

[Pam R]

I'm guessing mousse uses less agar? I'll research.

[JustKay]

I have not tried agar-agar in mousse. I don't use gelatin either when making mousse.

Agar-agar was discussed a little in the Homemade Marshmallow thread.

Here are some good agar-agar recipes.

My favorite dessert which uses agar-agar is Semolina Pudding.

[Pam R]

Agar-agar was discussed a little in the Homemade Marshmallow thread.

I know... but I never got a definitive answer on that thread about how they turned out... I intend on trying them soon.

Thanks for the link - these recipes are making me think about different ways to use it.

How do you make your mousses? I have always made a chocolate mousse (which doesn't se any gelatin, but I think the chocolate holds it together). But am concerned with fruit mousses that they just won't hold up.

[scott123]

I'm thinking about using agar for a glaze.

Is agar sensitive to salt like gelatin is?

Does the finished product have to be either blended or passed through a chinois in order to be smooth?

Does blending a gel thickened solution weaken the agar's ability to thicken?

[helenjp]

Agar will make a tougher, chewier "glaze" or skin than gelatin.

Salt will increase the pore size of the gel - it holds more water, but is more fragile (which may be a good thing in terms of mouthfeel, but I think you also run a greater risk of the agar gel weeping water as time passes).

[filipe]

I seem to have read somewhere that for replacing ordinary gelatin for agar-agar I should use half the amount of it (ex: 10g gelatin = 5g agar-agar)

Is this true or am I dreaming?

[Tweety69bird]

I don't have any solid info for you, but I think you're on the right track. Agar-agar is quite powerful compared to gelatin. Have you done a search for info on eGullet? There is deffinately more info on that here.

[Tweety69bird]

And read here under the cooking section Wikipedia

[Tweety69bird]

And lastly....here

Hope these help you!!

[Sethro]

Ineed to make vegan panna cotta.

Anybody have a ballpark conversion ratio for gelatin to agar?

Also, any thoughts on simulating the creaminess? I was thinking of thicken up soy milk with lecithin or methcel. Anyone have a notion as to which would provide the creamiest mouth feel?

[xdrixn]

you'd be better off with carrageenan.

[Sethro]

you'd be better off with carrageenan.

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Never used it. Is it cold soluble? How much should I use?

[Pontormo]

Is this a common vegan dessert? Have you considered using coconut milk instead of soy?

I realize that a panna cotta is like a flan or custard, but lighter without the egg, but for me at least, the dairy element is crucial because flavoring elements are usually minimalistic as well: a little bit of vanilla or citrus. Accompaniments such as fresh berries and a light sauce provide the principal flavor.

I'd be tempted to do without dairy substitutions and work simply with fruits and gelling agents, perhaps combining something light such as key lime with a contrasting, intense element. Maybe try almond milk.

However, I realize that we might have different tastes and I hope you'll document your efforts and ultimate success, especially since vegan diets have been of interest to a few eGullet members. Certainly, there is a lot of interest in Kosher meals as well.

Edited February 12, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[tangaloor]

I would test this recipe out with different types of "milks" before committing to soy (or a particular brand of soy). The flavours are very different from milk to milk; you could even try a homemade cashew milk, which can be very nice and isn't really much work, just a lot of blending depending on the amount. Make sure to strain it well for something like this. Coconut milk is easy and known good.

I'd also recommend combining the agar with another type of setting agent, cornstarch or arrowroot or something. That will up the 'creaminess' as it interacts with the set of the agar. Xanthan gum could be another option. I find agar sets a bit differently to gelatin--more 'grainy'.

The best gelatin-y set I've ever come across was in konyakku based candies from Japan, but I've never come across a source or instructions for the raw ingredient.

As for equivalencies, I can never remember this and usually look it up on google each time. Something like 1tb flakes: 1 cup liquid. Search for "kanten" recipes. It's different for the different forms of agar--bar, powder, flake. Let us know how it turns out for you!

[xdrixn]

you'd be better off with carrageenan.

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Never used it. Is it cold soluble? How much should I use?

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start at 1%, only the iota and kappa gel, remember so burns easily...hydrate n water first

[beccaboo]

You could try almond milk--I make blancmange with it, scented with a bay leaf, and is't pretty good.

[Sethro]

Thanks for some interesting advice. Soy is actually the intended flavor--I guess I forgot to mention that.

My first test run is going to be with arrowroot (thanks for reminding me I have that) and agar. If that isn't serviceable then I'll get some carragenan.

I prefer agar powder...I don't suppose anyone has a flake to powder conversion handy...

[helenjp]

From Japanese recipes, 4g to 400 or 500ml soy milk or a mix of soy milk and water. Sugar was minimal, and you want a creamier feel anyway, so you would need to play with those proportions.

I much prefer a product called Ina-agar, produced by Ina Shokuhin Kogyo (Ina Food Industry). It contains both agar and konnyaku (konjac, devil's tongue root) plus other starches, and makes a much creamier jelly - made soft, pure agar jelies tend to have a "crumbly" texture. Usually 10g powder to 500ml soy milk/water.

Kanten-pappa website Ina-agar A (unsweetened) and Ina-agar L (lightly sweetened) are 3rd and 4th items down the page respectively. The Ina-agar A I have is sweetened, so older product may contain sugar.

Edited February 13, 2007 by helenjp (log)

[tangaloor]

Just noticed that there is an agar panna cotta in Heidi Swanson's new cookbook, Super Natural Cooking.

[schneich]

try the "vegetarian gelatine" made by Sosa

[the_nomad]

OK, so as recommended yesterday on the "multi-day tasting menu" thread, I've been trying to make up creme de cassis pearls using agar-based spherification (dropping into cold oil).

So far, I've tried 125 ml of creme de cassis, and .5g of agar, which didn't sferify in the cold oil. I then added another .5g of agar or so, dissolved at near boiling temperature as usual, but the result still isn't gellifying. Even if I put a very small quantity in the freezer for a bit, it doesn't form a gel, implying that there's something chemically wrong.

Anyone got any insights as to what could be happening? I got my quantities from recipes which looked similar in the Khymos "Hydrocolloid" book, but they could be wrong for creme de cassis. Any ideas?

[alexandra]

Hi Fellow Egullet members,

Wondering if any of you have had experience working with agar agar. This weekend I attempted to make marshmallow and had two flops - despite having read the very long thread on marshmallows. It all boiled down, I think, to improperly using agar agar.

The first time I melted it in cold water using a 1:1 ratio ( that is substituting agar for gelatine ) and I used Michael Recchuiti's yummy recipe. It set up, but was totally flat, so I consider this a failure. The second time I tried it, I tripled the agar agar and poured it in the boiling syrup, using the Nightscotsman recipe ( no egg whites ). It looked great in the pan, then I slowly poured it into my kitchen aid bowl and what a disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!! It started to set up, almost burned out my mixer and destroyed my bowl and whisk...after 10 minutes to my horror I had to literally dig it out with an aluminum spoon...it was like rock. Obviously that did not work. So I am back to square one. When would you suggest I add the agar? And how much liquid should I use to boil it to get it to gelatinize?

Thanks for ANY help or ideas you can send my way. I have committed to make 200 marshmallows by this Thursday for 20 stores I am test marketing. I'm in a bit of a sweat!!!

Alexandra