Smoke free patios

[vanderb]

Calgary is the reverse of Vancouver with regard to smoking policy at restaurants... in a bizarre twist smoking is not permitted on patios but is permitted indoors. The bylaw here is in relation to the the distance one can or cannot smoke from the entrance to a building. The distance is 5 metres so 99% of patios have to be smoke free.

Calgary is still claiming to have no-smoking rules covering all public spaces but not till 2008. Why we have to wait I do not know, but some establishments are not waiting for 2008, just noticed this week that Brewster's is now 100% smoke free.

[Vikram Vij]

Had lunch 2 weeks ago @ Rangoli and asked Vij to put out the gawd awful incense he had burning near us.

He explained it was to cover the reek from the smokers-indicating the other diners.

I had no idea he allowed people to smoke on the patio and was momentarily stunned at the prospect-also a bit trapped as to time/options for lunch with my companion.

Luckily lunch was tasty and no one ignited but I doubt I'll be back until he cleans the place up.

←

Most people like the smell of Sandal wood burning but may be for you it was gawd awful. I only burn the incense sticks to cover up the smell coming from the coffee shop. I do not encourage smoking on the patio and when the patio is full, I usually do not allow people to smoke. If in the middle of the afternoon somebody wants to smoke and there is no body on the patio, I shall not refrain them because it is there legal right to smoke outside.

I do believe that my place is clean and thoughtfull. I wonder what would you complain about if you went to India.

Vikram Vij

[transfattyacid]

I just saw the owner of Viva Fine Foods on the tele being interviewed about this very topic, i only caught the last bit of his interview but the tone did sound like he was concerned about the loss of takings if this law would come in to effect.

( if i`m miss quoting Micheal then please forgive me, as i`m sure he is concerned with public health too )

In Viva`s case i`m sure it targets people buying a coffee and lighting up on the patio. but what if that same smoker under the new law purchases their coffee to-go, and loiters on the curb on Yew and smokes there instead ?

what difference does that make to the health and safety (and enjoyment of Viva`s cakes) of non smokers on the patio ?

Now i can understand the watermark thing,the lovely ocean breeze is some thing worth preserving,

but lets say, a patio on broadway at , lets say, fir ?, granville ? like a rogue smoker is gonna make a difference there !

The issue is a result of government cowardice.

Why not target the tabacco industry ?

but thats not economically feasible is it ?

So lets dump the problem on the restaurant industry instead. let them figure it out . they all ways do what they are told .

[Daddy-A]

The issue is a result of government cowardice.

Why not target the tabacco industry ?

but thats not economically feasible is it ?

So lets dump the problem on the restaurant industry instead. let them  figure it out . they all ways do what they are told .

Those are the pearls of wisdom I've missed from you TFA. Welcome back.

As long as tobacco is legal, the rest is a moot point.

Can you believe it's been 10 years since the smoke-free rules have been in place?

A.

[SBonner]

Most people like the smell of Sandal wood burning but may be for you it was gawd awful. I only burn the incense sticks to cover up the smell coming from the coffee shop. I do not encourage smoking on the patio and when the patio is full, I usually do not allow people to smoke. If in the middle of the afternoon somebody wants to smoke and there is no body on the patio, I shall not refrain them because it is there legal right to smoke outside.

I do believe that my place is clean and thoughtfull. I wonder what would you complain about if you went to India.

Vikram Vij

←

[Sam Salmon]

Had lunch 2 weeks ago @ Rangoli and asked Vij to put out the gawd awful incense he had burning near us.

He explained it was to cover the reek from the smokers-indicating the other diners.

I had no idea he allowed people to smoke on the patio and was momentarily stunned at the prospect-also a bit trapped as to time/options for lunch with my companion.

Luckily lunch was tasty and no one ignited but I doubt I'll be back until he cleans the place up.

←

Most people like the smell of Sandal wood burning but may be for you it was gawd awful. I only burn the incense sticks to cover up the smell coming from the coffee shop. I do not encourage smoking on the patio and when the patio is full, I usually do not allow people to smoke..........

I wonder what would you complain about if you went to India.

Vikram Vij

←

I expressed my appreciation for your extinguishing the rank smell from the incense that was wafting over our table-the idea that most people 'like the smell of smoke with their food' is ludicrous and touches on another aspect of your operation.

It's true I've never visited India to date-however my years of residence in Mexico & Central America as well as visiting and fishing the Caribbean/South America and the South Pacific-have pretty well immured me to diesel fumes and chance encounters with odours of the gagging kind.

FYI-the reek of cheap incense fell out of style in this town in the late 70's.

[kurtisk]

FYI-the reek of cheap incense fell out of style in this town in the late 70's

That doesn't speak for any of us. I, personally, find that Vikram's adds to the authentic overall flavour of the Vij's experience...

k

Edited August 10, 2005 by kurtisk (log)

[3WholeCardamoms]

FYI-the reek of cheap incense fell out of style in this town in the late 70's.

←

wow Sam, you're pretty worked up.

consider that, for some, incense isn't just a fad.

[Daddy-A]

FYI-the reek of cheap incense fell out of style in this town in the late 70's.

wow Sam, you're pretty worked up.

consider that, for some, incense isn't just a fad.

I like it 'cuz it covers up the smell of my pot ....

.... roast.

A.

[nwyles]

Ok, let's take it down a notch.

Had a couple of guys at the beer tasting try a classic move that I thought I had perfected as a five year old on me tonight.

Patio is full with guests of the beer tasting.

Buddy asks server if he can smoke a cigar. Server does not know to do even though I had clearly stated that there would be no smoking on the patio either night while we had an event going on. I think that that is fair as I decided that the BBQ and beer tasting would be outside. I should not submit my guests to that until the event is over.

My wife goes over and says no that he may not. He says how about if I go on the other side of this fence ? You can't do anything !

Joan states that it would be childish and disrespectful of our other guests.

He sits down and then decides to come and find me.

I just chuckle. This is the old " mom said, Dad said "

He asks.

"Did my wife just tell you no ? Why would you set me up for domestic discord ?

I have to go with no as well ! "

This issue has certainly gained some momentum in the last few days in the local media. If this comes down, it will be a nightmare to manage. It is not like I do not have enough to do already than patrol my patio for illegal smokers.

If the governments were not addicted to the revenues this brings in, it would be easier for them to outlaw the sale of smokes and take on this issue themselves instead of the hospitality industry. My job is to make people feel warm and comfortable, not scold them for lighting up.

P.S. I wonder if you would be allowed to make a citizen's arrest for for illegal use of a deadly item. Maybe lay a little taser on them. Where do I get the big tie straps for handcuffing people.

Edited August 10, 2005 by nwyles (log)

[kurtisk]

Good thoughts, Mr Wyles.

I don't envy your position, or anyone elses's as far as the patio/smoking discussion goes.

When you have a patio in your restaurant, it adds so much more as far as headaches, staffing, weather abnormalities, bird shit, what have you. I honestly commend you for all the aspects and surprises that come with patio dining that you contend with.

And I'm sorry you had to deal with those chumps.

xo,

k.

[Zucchini Mama]

Where's Patio Cop when you need him?

Zuke

[bigdaddy]

I'm curious as to how restaurants would adapt to such a bylaw. Smokers may represent only 16% of the population, but they account for a much higher percentage of sales than that in many (most?) restaurants (...something about the combination of cigarettes, alcohol and addictive personalities?).

I remember vividly how tough it was when smoking was originally banned in restaurants but not in bars. Upscale hotel lounges were suddenly offering full dining menus, and many of the smoking clientele simply moved until a total indoor ban was eventually introduced.

As it is now, it can be very nerve-wracking for a busy waiter/restaurateur to try and keep track of customers who "step out for a smoke" after consuming hundreds of dollars in food & wine. Moving those customers even further from view by instituting a buffer-zone of some kind would certainly increase that challenge.

[BCinBC]

There was a lot of news this week on CBC radio about the Coastal Health Authority considering banning smoking on all outdoor patios. This is based on a 66% increase in complaints from non-smokers that they can't sit outside to dine anymore due to the smoke. Now, being that the health department is involved and there have been no studies showing the damage of cigarette smoke outdoors, they cannot dictate patio's non-smoking like they have been able to do indoors. However, they can recommend to City Hall, and the governments in various other local municipalities, that they mandate patios as non-smoking. While places like Burnaby and Richmond should be fine, we in Vancouver stand a very good chance that those bleeding hearts in Vancouver City Hall, including whacko's like Fred Bass, who is a fervent anti-smoker, may well try and go for it. My advise to restaurants is to nip the complaints in the bud by having non-smoking sections on their patios and keeping those sections away from any entrance or windows into the restaurants if they can. Banning cigars until after dinner hours like 10 or 11:00 (which I think C does) and finally, vote those bloody Cope, Cope Light, Cope Classic, and all their other splinter groups the hell out of local government.

←

Excellent rant Fanny Bay.

The one thing I will say for our current reign at City Hall is that they seem pretty open to public opinion (eg. the Walmart rejection on Main and Marine, thank God.) So perhaps if the hospitality industry stands up and makes some noise about this issue, they may take notice.

[Daddy-A]

Just want to jump in here and remind everyone that the disussion needs to remain non-political as per the eGullet User Agreement.

As you were ....

A.

[Vikram Vij]

Had lunch 2 weeks ago @ Rangoli and asked Vij to put out the gawd awful incense he had burning near us.

He explained it was to cover the reek from the smokers-indicating the other diners.

I had no idea he allowed people to smoke on the patio and was momentarily stunned at the prospect-also a bit trapped as to time/options for lunch with my companion.

Luckily lunch was tasty and no one ignited but I doubt I'll be back until he cleans the place up.

←

Most people like the smell of Sandal wood burning but may be for you it was gawd awful. I only burn the incense sticks to cover up the smell coming from the coffee shop. I do not encourage smoking on the patio and when the patio is full, I usually do not allow people to smoke..........

I wonder what would you complain about if you went to India.

Vikram Vij

←

I expressed my appreciation for your extinguishing the rank smell from the incense that was wafting over our table-the idea that most people 'like the smell of smoke with their food' is ludicrous and touches on another aspect of your operation.

It's true I've never visited India to date-however my years of residence in Mexico & Central America as well as visiting and fishing the Caribbean/South America and the South Pacific-have pretty well immured me to diesel fumes and chance encounters with odours of the gagging kind.

FYI-the reek of cheap incense fell out of style in this town in the late 70's.

←

Sam,

What part of my english did you not understand, I never said that "most people like the smell of smoke with their food" . Do not try to read between the lines. I only said that most people like the smell of sandalwood burning. Whenever I light the incense sticks, I always ask people if it bothers them, if it does, I put it out or take it away.

FYI - I was still in India in 70's and as far as I remember, incense is still very popular in India. You must be a very wealthy person that you can call my incense cheap. When did you last go and buy incense? Go to Punjabi market and see what mine costs. Maybe because you have been to all these places, you know it all.

Vikram Vij

[butter]

Vikram,

I'm 100% behind your comments. People in our city need to travel the world abit to see, taste, and smell what the rest of the world is doing. As a non smoker, other than the occasional cigar or pipe on special occasions, I realise that on a patio there will be smokers. That's life and I can live with it.

Stephen Bonner

←

Ditto. Ever been to Japan? Will banning smoking on patios really cause non-smokers to stop eating out? I'm pretty sure most smokers can make it through a two hour meal if they need to and most don't mind. Until then, I will continue to eat inside, no big deal. It's only about two months of the year anyway.

[Jaymes]

I'm pretty sure most smokers can make it through a two hour meal if they need to and most don't mind. Until then, I will continue to eat inside, no big deal.

Smokers manage to "make it" through a two-hour movie, a two-hour flight, a two-hour concert or stage play, a two-hour trip to the dentist, an eight-hour sleep. Obviously they can "make it" though a meal.

But I'm with you -- until the patios are smoke-free, I, too, will just work around it.

Oh, and try to sit upwind.

Edited August 11, 2005 by Jaymes (log)

[BCinBC]

Okay the 8-hour sleep one is a little much. I mean, I make it through the night without going pee. How often do I not go pee for 8-hours when I'm awake?

Uromisitisis!

[Jaymes]

How often do I not go pee for 8-hours when I'm awake?

I'm sorry. Can't answer that. Don't know you that well.

After all, we just met.

[Keith Talent]

I like the idea that smokers need to "make it" through a meal, very west coast, take something pleasant and add elements of competition to it. A hike? No besting your personal best up the grind! Out for an alfresco meal? No, a personal test of wills to see if you can make it two hours without a fag. Sometime sthe lack of tolerance in this town pisses me off.