Joong & Joongzi: The Topic

[Dejah]

As Ben Sook requested:

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I propose a JOONG cook off. Strut your stuff, O Ye of stout heart and nimble fingers". 

How many of you make and indulge in joong in May? Do you know the history behind this tradition? What are your family recipes?

This is my joong session from last year:

http://www.hillmans.soupbo.com/soos/joongzi.html

May is always a busy teaching time for me so I don't have a set date to make mine. I do have my supplies on hand, so I will enter the fray when I can no longer control the drooling!

As with all cook-offs, it is never too late to enter! I am still trying to make my siu mai and more attempts with dan tart.

Edited May 5, 2005 by Dejah (log)

[sheetz]

I'd be game but I don't know if I can get bamboo leaves in my area.

[Tepee]

The joong festival will be celebrated on June 11 here. Guess I'll wait a couple of weeks.......unless I can't stand drooling over all your joongs.

[Dejah]

The joong festival will be celebrated on June 11 here. Guess I'll wait a couple of weeks.......unless I can't stand drooling over all your joongs.

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I will probably make my supply around June...unless like tepee...I cannot wait...My freezer is empty of joong these days.

[Transparent]

Oh, wow. No one in my family knows how to make joong. As for my grandmother - she prefers needle and thread over a wok and shovel. I do love joong though (even though its murder on my digestive tract). I'll definitely be looking foward to everyone's joong.

[Gastro888]

Wait, how is joong hard on the digestive tract? I'd think it'd be pretty gentle...

[Tepee]

There are 2 schools of thought; some (actually, a lot of folks I know) say glutinous rice is tough on the digestive process, some say it actually aids digestion. I suppose it depends on your yin-yang make-up.

Edited May 10, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[Gastro888]

Really?!?!?! It's just rice...I can't imagine it imparing your digestion in the least bit. It's not like it's durian or something.

Huh. Ya learn something new every day.

[Ben Hong]

I personally don't think that glutinous (sticky) rice affects the digestive tract more than any other rice, I think that the problem may be the "liu" or haum that is in them, like fat pork, beans, chinese sausage, egg yolk, etc. I am always receptive to corrections of my thought processes these days.

[Gastro888]

Pork fat keeps us Chinese people young. Oh please. <smirk>

[sheetz]

I understand that glutinous rice (or at least the way it's normally prepared by Chinese) is considered a "hot" food so that if you eat too much you will supposedly have problems with yeet hay, or "hot air."

[origamicrane]

hi

I think the reason why some of us say that glutinous rice is hard on the digestive tract is that typically for glutinous rice dishes it is steamed just to the point that it is done.

This means that it is hard and has less moisture then normal white rice and as it is dryer it can continue to absorb more water so when you eaten it it expands in your stomache and as such gives some people indigestion.

well that the theory anyway.

[origamicrane]

Do you know the history behind this tradition? What are your family recipes?

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not sure on the accuracy but the story I was told was Qu Yuan a popular famous chinese scholar in the olden days got drunk fell off his boat and drowned or was it suicide? anyway the bloke drown in the river.

The local townsfolk after hearing that he had drowned wanted to find his body as such they threw joong into the river so that the fish would eat the joong and not the body and they also beat their drums to scare the fish away thats also the origins of dragon boat racing.

althought thinking about it that rather silly the food would attract more fish

anyway my family recipe is

soak, clean and boil the leaves

glutinous rice

yellow beans

a piece of fatty pork marinated in five spice and other stuff

some chestnuts

some shittake mushroom

some dried shrimps.

wrap up in leaves and tie with string cook in big pot for a few hours

eat

[herbacidal]

The local townsfolk after hearing that he had drowned wanted to find his body as such they threw joong into the river so that the fish would eat the joong and not the body and they also beat their drums to scare the fish away thats also the origins of dragon boat racing.

This part mostly jives with what I've understood to be the story, although I'm not sure about the dragon boat tangent,, but it's plausible.

not sure on the accuracy but the story I was told was Qu Yuan a popular famous chinese scholar in the olden days got drunk fell off his boat and drowned or was it suicide?  anyway the bloke drown in the river.

This doesn't jive as much.

[Dejah]

June 11 is the date of the Chinese Dragon Boat Festival, and I will be holding the first of 2 joongzi sessions at my house starting at noon! This time around, I will be "teaching" some friends how to make these. They are both in bi-racial marriages, one to re-educate herself, the other to please her Chinese husband, her family and herself! I'll take pictures!

After the festival, my Mom and I will make our family and Ben Sook's supply.

Anyone else making joong? Tepee? origamicrane? Herb? Yetti?

[origamicrane]

Anyone else making joong? Tepee? origamicrane? Herb? Yetti?

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hmmm.....

I'll ask my mum see if she's feeling mad enough

If she is I'll take loads of photos too and make a photo tutorial.

The problem with making zoong in my household is that we have to make loads for our extended family and a few for the workers in the restaurant.

We usually end up making over 80! and each one I think weighs close to a kilo each!!

by the way whats the official english name for zoong???

as i find it hard to explain to my non chinese friends

[sheetz]

Woohoo! My tiny local Chinese grocery store just received a shipment of bamboo leaves, so now I can have a go at making joong. I think I will use Grace Young's recipe. The only problem is that I'm not sure how to fold them (GY's explanations are pretty incomprehensible.)

Can anyone explain how to wrap them?

[Dejah]

Can anyone explain how to wrap them?

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Hmm, I thought GY's instructions were pretty good, but then, that may be because I know how to wrap them!

I couldn't begin to attempt an explanation. Why don't you soak some leaves, then practise by following GY's instructions until you can figure it out?

GY 's method of soaking and cleaning the leaves is different from mine. I just sent instructions to my "students" and this is what I do:

"Two to three days before using, separate carefully and soak these in a big tub. When they are pliable,wash each by running each leave between your thumb and other fingers to remove any dirt residue. Then boil in small batches for 5 - 10 minutes in big pot of water with 1/2 cup vinegar. You don't need to change water or add more vinegar with each batch. Some people don't do this step, but I find the leaves are easier to work with. Drain, lay them all in one direction and keep moist until ready to use.(big garbage bag works well) Never press down on the leaves at any time!"

Also, I don't soak my rice for an hour. I just wash and drain, then season. And Lordy! I never boil my tamales for 5 hours! 2.5 hours is plenty long enough. Mine were boiled by mistake for 4 hours once...and once was enough.

[Dejah]

Anyone else making joong? Tepee? origamicrane? Herb? Yetti?

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by the way whats the official english name for zoong???

as i find it hard to explain to my non chinese friends

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Grace Young calls them Savory Rice Tamales. That's the first time I've heard them called tamales. I always say sticky rice in bamboo leaves.

I think I will have you beat, origamicrane. My Mom and I usually make +150...This weekend, I will have 10 people for the session. 8 of my students want to come and learn also.

[sheetz]

Hmm, I thought GY's instructions were pretty good, but then, that may be because I know how to wrap them!

I couldn't begin to attempt an explanation. Why don't you soak some leaves, then practise by following GY's instructions until you can figure it out?

I guess that's what I'll end up doing. I was hoping that someone would have pictures! GY's directions use 3 leaves per joong, but I've seen other recipes use only 2. How many does everyone else use?

Grace Young calls them Savory Rice Tamales. That's the first time I've heard them called tamales

That name undoubtedly originated in California, where even my Toisanese mother in LA knows what tamales are! Other than that I don't think there is an English name for them, as pretty much the only people who eat these are Chinese.

[hzrt8w]

    "Two to three days before using, separate carefully and soak these in a big tub. When they are pliable,wash each by running each leave between your thumb and other fingers to remove any dirt residue.

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Be really careful running your fingers down those bamboo leaves, especially when they are dry. They cut easier than thin papers. It costed me a few scratches making zoong last yeat.

Then boil in small batches for 5 - 10 minutes in big pot of water with 1/2 cup vinegar.  You don't need to change water or add more vinegar with each batch. Some people don't do this step, but I find the leaves are easier to work with. Drain, lay them all in one direction and keep moist until ready to use.(big garbage bag works well) Never press down on the leaves at any time!"

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Is there really a benefit boiling the bamboo leaves before wrapping? I just soak the leaves in water overnight, no boiling.

[hzrt8w]

I guess that's what I'll end up doing.  I was hoping that someone would have pictures!  GY's directions use 3 leaves per joong, but I've seen other recipes use only 2.  How many does everyone else use?

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To use only 2 leaves, you gotta be:

1) Making a small size zoong

2) An expert in wrapping zoong

most of us amatuers use 3 leaves. Much easier to wrap. 2 for holding the "liu" (ingredients), 1 for covering... sort of.

[herbacidal]

I do think Chinese tamale is a better description than I've used/heard yet, but thus far it has been mostly irrelevant since much like Sheetz, I'm not yet aware of non-Chinese that have eaten them even once (although I'm sure there's a few out there somewhere), let alone regularly.

[Pan]

You've gotta be kidding, Herb. Joong are standard at dim sum places, are they not?

[hzrt8w]

You've gotta be kidding, Herb. Joong are standard at dim sum places, are they not?

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Hmmm..... I don't think so.

I think you were thinking of "Nor Mi Gai" [Cantonese], which is wrapped with lotus leaves (sticky rice, pieces of chicken, black mushroom, dried shrimp, lap cheung). This is a standard dim sum item.

Joong, which is wrapped with bamboo leaves (sticky rice, mung beans, salted pork, salted egg, black mushroom (maybe), dried shrimp (maybe), lap cheung (maybe), - that's only one version of it... or other ingredients) is offered more commonly in dim sum restaurants in Hong Kong, and very rarely in North America (well, in the ones that I've been to anyway).