Vancouver Restaurant Reviewers

[Keith Talent]

You know, Joanne is my Aunt, and you're all being really unfair. She works hard as reviewer, she has for a long time too. She's responsible for alot of the trends in Canadian cuisne that you lot are benefiting from today. She's a great lady, and more importantly a real person, and you're being mean to someone you don't really know. I'm ashamed to associate with you all. I'm just hoping that Autie Joanne doesn't read this inaccurate vitriol. It'd really hurt her feelings.

[*Deborah*]

You know, Joanne is my Aunt, and you're all being really unfair. She works hard as reviewer, she has for a long time too. She's responsible for alot of the trends in Canadian cuisne that you lot are benefiting from today. She's a great lady, and more importantly a real person, and you're being mean to someone you don't really know. I'm ashamed to associate with you all. I'm just hoping that Autie Joanne doesn't read this inaccurate vitriol. It'd really hurt her feelings.

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:laugh:

Thanks for that KT.

[jamiemaw]

You know, Joanne is my Aunt, and you're all being really unfair. She works hard as reviewer, she has for a long time too. She's responsible for alot of the trends in Canadian cuisne that you lot are benefiting from today. She's a great lady, and more importantly a real person, and you're being mean to someone you don't really know. I'm ashamed to associate with you all. I'm just hoping that Autie Joanne doesn't read this inaccurate vitriol. It'd really hurt her feelings.

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I noticed a passing resemblance, Keith.

Some questions:

1. How does your uncle feel if he's having a 'slow service night'? Put upon, ridiculed for all to read?

2. What does your doting aunt give you for Christmas? Remainder bin copies of Joanne Kates Cooks Your Goose"?

3. This is not blandishment, but has she ever offered to turn The Globe post over to you? I for one would think this timely,as you now hold the Nyquil Cup for superior posting.

Any answers gratefully received,

J.

Edited April 12, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[Mooshmouse]

I think today's laksa is fuelling your creative wit. Too bad you left your broad-brimmed hat at the office.

[Keith Talent]

To answer;

1) I think he take the slow service issues in stride, I do know for a fact he resents having everything he does compared to Sansur Lee though, I'd imagine that gets old.

2) For Christmas Auntie gives everyone in the family the same thing, a map of the world with both the prime meridian and the equator running through Bay & Bloor, as Auntie says it should be. I also got some snaps she took with her Motorola camera phone of Leah McLaren after one too many glasses of Bolli at the Globe Chrisrtmas party. I'd be happy to forward them.

3) I think she'd turn over the family business, but honestly we all know that A) I look stupid in hats, and B) I don't think Stadtlander or Kennedy are capital G Gods, and she has philsophical issues with encouraging an alternate bias.

[Oyster Guy]

You know, Joanne is my Aunt, and you're all being really unfair. She works hard as reviewer, she has for a long time too. She's responsible for alot of the trends in Canadian cuisne that you lot are benefiting from today. She's a great lady, and more importantly a real person, and you're being mean to someone you don't really know. I'm ashamed to associate with you all. I'm just hoping that Autie Joanne doesn't read this inaccurate vitriol. It'd really hurt her feelings.

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I noticed a passing resemblance, Keith.

Some questions:

1. How does your uncle feel if he's having a 'slow service night'? Put upon, ridiculed for all to read?

2. What does your doting aunt give you for Christmas? Remainder bin copies of Joanne Kates Cooks Your Goose"?

3. This is not blandishment, but has she ever offered to turn The Globe post over to you? I for one would think this timely,as you now hold the Nyquil Cup for superior posting.

Any answers gratefully received,

J.

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This is what I meant by.....

I really like Jamie's writing style!

[Andrew Morrison]

I've always liked the idea of servers and chefs reviewing restaurants, perhaps even together sitting incognito at a table going over details many reviewers miss. That being said, being reviewed by your peers may sound nice, but it can lead to bad feelings, mistrust, and an overall sense of betrayal...

"I thought you played for our team?"

...and that sort of thing.

Working as a waiter in Toronto, I too remember the fear-inspiring mystique of Joanne Kates but what scared us most were the city moguls of media and big business. Bad word of mouth from the bigwigs (nevermind the reviewers) can kill a restaurant buzz quicker than an oversized rat giving birth in Table 14's Prada clutch.

[jamiemaw]

I also caught last night's Chef at Large co-starring Mr Maw and Chef Moreno. In addition to learning a little about Moreno himself and his kitchen (I did not know they were all so young!), I agree the focus on the review process was (for me) very informative. The way he surveys the room for service, the timing aspect, the conditions of the premises, the first dinner's review to the chef... interesting process. Also the image of Jamie tapping away at his laptop at 8 words per minute will be the one I forever associate with his posts on eGullet.

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My daughters assure me that this is entirely adequate as I only think at 6.5 words per minute.

[Tete Carre]

Andrew, I'm not sure if your sense of humour is sublime or ridiculous but I've been LMAO all through this thread.

Thanks Man, it's been a long hard week and it's only Tuesday!

[barolo]

The current (April, 2005) issue of BC Business has an article by Mark Laba (the Province's restaurant reveiwer) entitled "In Flagrante Delicto".

The cover banner reads--"An insider's take on the incestuous world of restaurant reviews". It purports to be a tell-all dish on the conflicts arising out of restaurant reviewing. Unfortunately, it's fairly evident that the piece has been "lawyered" half to death--it names few names, quotes anonymous sources as "two reliable sources" or "industry insiders" or uses obsolete illustrative examples from the years 2000 and 2004. One source it does quote, Don Genova, in a sidebar regarding called "Why I Don't Review Anymore" concerns the freebies he seemingly used to accept, but fails to disclose the real reason he literally moved on: Vancouver Island became his principal residence two years ago, so he did the honourable thing and excused himself.

Like a weak restaurant, the article promises more than it delivers, but may still be a worthwhile read for those unfamiliar with some of the potential conflicts of interest available to restaurant reviewers; of course the same may be said about automotive, movie and, especially, travel writers.

[

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I read Laba's article and have to agree. Didn't the Genova sidebar appear somewhere else previously? I'm sure I've read it before. The Stainsby sidebar also looked familiar. Or maybe I just read too much and all it starts to look the same.

In any case, I'm sure there's lots to dish but Laba doesn't deliver.

And Andrew I won't be able to forget the image those rats giving birth in Prada clutches next time I dine out.

[FannyBay]

Does anyone have link to the Mark Laba article they can post?

[FannyBay]

Does anyone have link to the Mark Laba article they can post?

[Andrew Morrison]

And Andrew I won't be able to forget the image those rats giving birth in Prada clutches next time I dine out.

Sorry about that.

To elaborate a tad more on what I was talking about up-thread, I went to a menu tasting last night at work. Our menu is changing top to bottom next week and as such the wait-staff were all called in for an advance tasting. Each dish was presented, explained, tasted, discussed, ripped apart, paired with wines, and then savagely devoured. It's amazing to watch waiters eat free food. They set upon the plates like a pack of rabid badgers harrassed by bees, dodging forks and knives with mixed results.

We must have tried 15 new menu items, from venison carpaccio to espresso dusted pork tenderloin, and I was once again reminded that waiters, chefs, and bartenders would make excellent restaurant critics.

The comments that met the arrival and the tasting of every new dish were succinct and bereft of flowery adjective - calls for "more garlic, less chervil" would spawn arguments over the merits of the chef's intent versus the palates of our regular clientele. You could see the brains ticking, making notes on flavours, constructing possible selling points, and identifying flaws and perfections. It was re-assuring to remember that we actually have some abilities and aren't just on the perrenial hunt for the final 15%. Some of us, a lot of us, genuinely love food and wine. It was fascinating to watch and to be a part of.

Little side discussions would erupt about whether the swordfish salad could stand up to an old world Pinot Noir and whether the "new" mussel app was better than the "old" would be interrupted by all joining in wide-eyed wonderment as a new plate arrived (dijon-encrusted rack of lamb), the presentation of which was so beautiful and so simple that it inspired some silence and much "woah!". The chef would do his little talk, return to the kitchen, and then the vultures would swoop, gorging themselves on the new flavours, chattering away with mouths filled, arguing whether Shiraz might be a little too much, opining on what restaurants are serving comparable dishes, and even finding time to bitch for a steak knife.

It opened my eyes a little bit more at how well-educated and how well-trained you have to be in order to be properly subjected to a high-brow restaurant review in the first place. If servers know more about each and every product that goes off the line and out of the cellar than a critic, they are doing their job well...but it also puts proof paid to the notion that they'd make kick-ass critics themselves. The lifers among us are hyper-critical of food, atmosphere, vibe, presentation, and service in ways that make your average critic an upstart in comparison. Like the evolution-honed Cheetah and their favoured prey, the Thompson's Gazelle, restaurant staff and critics play on the same dusty savannah, but only one of them gets the opportunity to sink it's teeth into soft flesh and then go have sex.

Of course, then you have the counter-argument about the importance of studying journalism and being able to string coherent sentences together in an informative and entertaining fashion (on a deadline) and the whole idea tends to come crashing down.

In the end, if I was a restauranteur I think I'd actually prefer having a critic deliver the coup de review than a waiter because they'd probably be easier to swindle and cajole.

Edited April 13, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)

[canucklehead]

Andrew - great post. Sounds like being a waiter in a high end joint has its rewards.

I am stuck in my glass beehive today and I am jealous.

[appreciator]

Andrew - great post. Sounds like being a waiter in a high end joint has its rewards.

I am stuck in my glass beehive today and I am jealous.

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Andrew, I too have to add my kudos to your post above. In fact, it’s actually one of the best posts I've read for a while. Now don't let that go to your head

I think that the best restaurant reviews come from people (whoever they may be) who truly love food and love to eat (simplistic as this may be). Let's face it, we all have different tastes and those tastes are pretty subjective. But c'mon, who isn't sucked in by a comment such as:

......with wide-eyed wonderment as a new plate arrived (dijon-encrusted rack of lamb), the presentation of which was so beautiful and so simple that it inspired some silence and much "woah!" .

That's just an example, and I've only pulled from Andrew's post because, A) it rocked, and B) it was handy.

I've read some great reviews by many of our local resto critics; Jamie (of course), Tim Pawsey, Mia Stansby etc. but what really grabs my attention is actually things out of the ordinary from those who are not in the professional critic biz. While perusing various periodicals, you will occasionally come across snippets as part of other commentary that just make you want to dive in and see what that person is talking/raving about. Sometimes...in those out of the ordinary places.... you read something so striking that it draws you right in and you know you're going to go and try it at the very first opportunity. To me, those places are where magic is found

[Andrew Morrison]

Thanks very much! Menu tastings are a hell of a great time. It's a nice perk to have dinner and wine with your colleagues and not get a bill in the end.

[Daddy-A]

This might need its own topic ...

Today in the Georgia Straight, Angella Murrils reporting on okonomiyaki at Modern Club.

Weren't we just talking about this? Makes me wonder who the reviewers are "going by".

A.

[Andrew Morrison]

The hills are alive with the sounds of eGullet.

[canucklehead]

Does this vindicate my rant?

[Ling]

^I'll be awaiting your Lilykate review after the 22nd...

[Zucchini Mama]

Everyone's a Critic

I like to look for multiple sources of information when I'm choosing a place to eat. I want the word in press and the word on the street. What I want when I read a review is information. I want to know if I'm going to get my money's worth, and I want to know if anything is going to detract from the food. I like some background information on the cultural history of the food. I like to know what percentage of the food is local and/or organic.

Eating is a very theatrical experience, so a restaurant can be compared to a theatre review: The waiters and diners are merely players and the food and drink is the action that keeps the play moving along. The decor and the musical score need to heighten the experience, providing mood and setting the scene, but they must not upstage the food or distract from the experience. There is a basic script that we learn in order to dine in an amiable manner. Well, there are many different cultural scripts, actually.

I want to know that there is enough space for me to focus on the dialogue at my table, and not that of the table next to me. At Bin 942 I was subjected to a woman with beestung lips screeching " This food is too spicy. Take me home now! My wips are burning!" The space is so crowded I was cringing every time the waitress had to inch her butt past a customer's face to pass someone else a drink. The music was suitable for a kitchen hyper-buzz, but not for a front of house ambience. This is my opinion. I know some people like that sort of thing. I see food as something to be savored on many levels-others just see it as refueling before they go out dancing or to the movies.

I want to know if my senses are going to be elevated by the food.

I want to be warned about bad service. If I know that there is only one very methodical waitress for several tables at the Vignetta Zannata Estate restaurant (Vinoteca) on Vancouver Island, I will make sure my child is not tired and starving when we arrive. I will just take the time to enjoy one of the loveliest places to eat on the planet and watch the bees dip drowsily into the pink roses winding around the balcony of the vintage farmhouse. (Apparently they are chronically understaffed-totally not the waitress's fault, by the way. The food is very good.)

I want diversity in the people who review restaurants. This is difficult, since people need to have a steady gig to make a living, but I guess I just want to see more print in general on the topic of dining experiences. I enjoy the view from insiders like Andrew who has a real gift for capturing the rhythm and energy of the dining room (please write a book), and I enjoy the view from an observant and sensitive outsider who knows nothing of food costs, but paints me a picture, and satisfies the culinary voyeur in me.

The problem that I see with food critics who take themselves too seriously is that they tend to lapse into self-parody, (which can be entertaining in itself). In her book Cooking for Mr. Latte: A Food Lover's Courtship with Recipes, NY food critic Amanda Hesser comes off sounding like a petulant, spoiled little brat. She unwinds by going into a local bistro, and once they find out who she is, they ply her with their rabbit ravioli and other delights. She is miffed because she just wanted to be left alone. Oh, darling, my heart bleeds for you!

I enjoy A.A Gill in small doses, but he can be wearing. I love the novel Eating Crow by Jay Rayner, in which an acerbic food critic repents for his evil ways and becomes a professional apologist-brilliant! Once you find out which food he eventually becomes allergic to, you even start to feel a bit sorry for the rogue.

So I love eGullet because there is a diversity of opinion, and no critic can eat every dish on every menu in Vancouver, so the people here provide a really valuable service to the chow-obsessed public. Also, food is very personal, and one person's "ambrosia" may be another person's "meh".

Canucklehead,

Glass beehive-lovely metaphor!

Zuke

[nwyles]

I don't really give a rat's ass who writes what !

I want to see / hear / touch / taste / experience for myself.

If there is somewhere that I want to go, I will.

Do I listen to what others are saying - sure, but in the end, who's opinion do you really value ? Your own !

There are places that come up that you really want to try no matter who is saying what. You read what is being said, filter it, and proceed.

There are places that I just have no real interest in trying for whatever reason and they just fall off of my radar but the ones you want to try always seem to come up again and again and sometimes you can't remember why you have not been yet.

Even when a place gets slammed in a review, your morbid curiosity still draws you to it thinking " it really can't be that bad ? ! ?" You just have to experience these things for yourself. Be your own judge, don't let your dining patterns be dictated by others. Weigh it all out and do what you want.

It's not the "Last Supper", it's just dinner ! Don't over analyze ! Enjoy !

[merlin]

Even when a place gets slammed in a review, your morbid curiosity still draws you to it thinking " it really can't be that bad ? ! ?"

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LOL...you are absolutely right....I have done just that on at least a couple of occasions.

I get a "kick"...ok, admittedly I have a somewhat "sick" sense of humour [?]...reading some of the "yellowed" reviews that restaurants post outside their entrance ways....some of them are out and out "slams" and I expect the proprietor just did not understand ...

[Oyster Guy]

Even when a place gets slammed in a review, your morbid curiosity still draws you to it thinking " it really can't be that bad ? ! ?"

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LOL...you are absolutely right....I have done just that on at least a couple of occasions.

I get a "kick"...ok, admittedly I have a somewhat "sick" sense of humour [?]...reading some of the "yellowed" reviews that restaurants post outside their entrance ways....some of them are out and out "slams" and I expect the proprietor just did not understand ...

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I too do this on occasion as I also have a somewhat "sick" sense of humour.

The best one I saw was an oyster bar in Panama City Beach in Florida called Dusty's which was known as a "good place" for bad service, ugly waitresses and warm beer. I have to give them credit as they certainly lived up to their reputation quite well and delivered what was promised.

Well, you have to admire consistency anyways.

O.G.

[Ling]

I don't really give a rat's ass who writes what !

I want to see / hear / touch / taste / experience for myself.

...

Even when a place gets slammed in a review, your morbid curiosity still draws you to it thinking " it really can't be that bad ? ! ?" You just have to experience these things for yourself. Be your own judge, don't let your dining patterns be dictated by others. Weigh it all out and do what you want.

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Have you been to Diva in the past few days? I haven't. I am *almost* tempted to let this guy take me there this week...but I don't see anything happening with him and that would make me a bad person. But I would be taking one for Egullet!

Edited October 18, 2005 by Ling (log)